corona virus alerts - Latest cruising Information for vessels/locations/rules

[Singularity]

Originally Posted by GordMay

I disagree with that assessment. It seems (to me) that our (western world) initial response was (in retrospect) slow, tepid, and inadequate.
However, that's just my opinion.

Agreed.
As previously stated in another thread that was closed, the Western-led WHO conceptualization on how to respond to something like Covid was that "draconian measures don't work." WHO 'expert' Dr. Aylward described the "whoopsie" in this news briefing.

This is a failure of epic proportions. Hubris in failing to recognize that the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence...withstanding all human history's experience with infectious diseases.
----
Put differently, WHO/the Western world too heavily incorporated the 'impact to the economy' metric into their equations...all while not so much as having written plans on how 'insta-quarantine' might need to work. And the West is re-inventing the wheel at high costs.

Otherwise, speculation...China doesn't care as much about the "economic" cost as per se the WHO/West does.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by S/V Adeline

Not sure why I was quoted, but I believe you are missing my point. There is no shutdown, business as usual except bars, restaurants, and beaches. We are not allowed to self quarantine unless we voluntarily quit our jobs/benefits. Governor on TV stating the state will not shut down. Mayer stating the same for city. Only testing allowed is for those already showing life threatening symptoms. Asymptomatic and partial symptoms are completely ignored. You can have EVERY symptom except fever and you are ignored in the testing. Those out of work treat this like vacation and most are still working daily. It's like a bad joke

I appreciate the clarification. I was just responding to your observations re testing. You have just raised other very important points here, which are somewhat related.

[zeehag]

thankfully mazatlan is being shut down by governor if sinaloa as mazatlans mayor could not manage to so do, seeking influx of tourists in this time is a sin.
if you seek semana santa fun and parties, clubs and beaches, this is not happening this year

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by GordMay

I disagree with that assessment. It seems (to me) that our (western world) initial response was (in retrospect) slow, tepid, and inadequate.
However, that's just my opinion.

I would agree BUT for the fact that it were the Chinese gov't who downplayed the threat until we lost valuable weeks and perhaps months of heads up. So the blame is and should be on the Chinese gov't's tendency to hush hush any negatives about their society, etc. This was what enabled the virus to sneak in undetected and circulate for a number of weeks. And considering that the Chinese gov't sticks it's nose practically worldwide, it was their responsibility to warn us of what was going on in their own province as long as it affected the world. They happily continued shopping in Milan for the Chinese New Year, no warnings and no travel advisories form Beijin. And after this we're supposed to be sensitive to their feelings?

And because of the above I don't think you can separate politics from epidimeology at this point. Very unfortunate though.

PS Please notice how I always put "gov't" after Chinese. 'Cause that's who's fault it is. Not the people of course.

[Singularity]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

I would agree BUT for the fact that it were the Chinese who downplayed the threat...

The US did this with MERS, but lucked out on account of virus-related factors, not govt response-related factors.

...until we lost valuable weeks and perhaps months of heads up.

In law they have a principle called laches....it holds that you can't sit around doing nothing forever, then, later, complain that someone did a lot of bad to you.
In other words, US/Europe had the same 'warning' as the rest of the world, effectively failed to take things seriously and/or effectively failed in orgnizing, such that it's specious to reference a delay in announcement....particularly when such "we've got a problem here" announcements will always have a delay.

So the blame is and should be on the Chinese gov't's...

It's quite pointless to finger-point at the Chinese unless one is simply trying to divert attention, or find a scapegoat. To understand how these things work is to recognize that:
a) there will be a delay in announcing presence of a disease
b) you've got to be ready to respond whenever some announcement comes out somewhere

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

I would agree BUT for the fact that it were the Chinese gov't who downplayed the threat until we lost valuable weeks and perhaps months of heads up. So the blame is and should be on the Chinese gov't's tendency to hush hush any negatives about their society, etc. This was what enabled the virus to sneak in undetected and circulate for a number of weeks ...

You must have a very short memory.
We knew about the virus (because China warned us) two weeks prior to the first detected case, outside of China, and three weeks prior to the first identified case in the US.
But, as late as eight weeks later, (Feb. 28), Trump accused* the Democrats of using the coronavirus as "their new hoax" (at a campaign rally on in North Charleston, S.C.)
From January until last week, Trump & company (NOT China) consistently minimized the risk the coronavirus posed to the country.
He claimed to have the virus under "control," that the number of US cases would go "down, not up," that the virus might "disappear" through a "miracle" or something of the sort, that the virus might well vanish by April with the warmer weather, that the media and Democrats were overhyping the situation, and that "this is their new hoax".

The Chinese warned the world on December 31, 2019, and identified (& shared) the virus on January 7, 2020.
On January 13, the WHO reported a case in Thailand, the first outside of China, in a woman who had arrived from Wuhan.
On January 21, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention confirms the first coronavirus case, in the United States.


A fellow was stuck on his rooftop in a flood. He was praying to God for help.
Soon a man in a rowboat came by and the fellow shouted to the man on the roof, "Jump in, I can save you."
The stranded fellow shouted back, "No, it's OK, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me."
So the rowboat went on.
Then a motorboat came by. "The fellow in the motorboat shouted, "Jump in, I can save you."
To this the stranded man said, "No thanks, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith."
So the motorboat went on.
Then a helicopter came by and the pilot shouted down, "Grab this rope and I will lift you to safety."
To this the stranded man again replied, "No thanks, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith."
So the helicopter reluctantly flew away.
Soon the water rose above the rooftop and the man drowned. He went to Heaven. He finally got his chance to discuss this whole situation with God, at which point he exclaimed, "I had faith in you but you didn't save me, you let me drown. I don't understand why!"
To this God replied, "I sent you a rowboat, and a motorboat, and a helicopter, what more did you expect?"

[Singularity]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

I would agree BUT for the fact that it were the Chinese gov't who downplayed the threat until we lost valuable weeks and perhaps months of heads up. So the blame is and should be on the Chinese gov't's tendency to hush hush any negatives about their society, etc...

If I may re-use your words, slightly modified, then point you to the article linked below:

[[I would agree BUT for the fact that it were the American gov't who downplayed the threat until we lost valuable weeks and perhaps months of heads up. So the blame is and should be on the American gov't's tendency to hush hush any negatives about their society, etc...]]

...according to a previously unrevealed White House playbook, the government should’ve begun a federal-wide effort to procure that personal protective equipment at least two months ago.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

I would agree BUT for the fact that it were the Chinese gov't who downplayed the threat until we lost valuable weeks and perhaps months of heads up. So the blame is and should be on the Chinese gov't's tendency to hush hush any negatives about their society, etc. This was what enabled the virus to sneak in undetected and circulate for a number of weeks. And considering that the Chinese gov't sticks it's nose practically worldwide, it was their responsibility to warn us of what was going on in their own province as long as it affected the world. They happily continued shopping in Milan for the Chinese New Year, no warnings and no travel advisories form Beijin. And after this we're supposed to be sensitive to their feelings?

And because of the above I don't think you can separate politics from epidimeology at this point. Very unfortunate though.

PS Please notice how I always put "gov't" after Chinese. 'Cause that's who's fault it is. Not the people of course.

You're confirming that it's a BLAME thing... how is that helpful? And others have confirmed that it's not exactly as you describe; the Chinese let it grow too quickly in China BUT did give very timely warning to the rest of the world, including very detailed data, RNA sequencing, all the results of their attempted interventions and therapies, etc. They continue to share all their ongoing research and trials, they're sharing doctors and ventilators...

China is responsible for reacting slowly and the resultant explosion in China, sure. Individual countries are responsible for their own responses (and lack thereof), and the outcomes they're getting, regardless of its origin. Should each country maybe name their own outbreak after their own shortcomings in responding?

[Montanan]

Article updating the status of most each and every airline's flight plans and status.

Titled:

55 global airlines have completely stopped flying scheduled flights due to travel bans, airspace closures, and low demand for travel — see the full list

https://www.yahoo.com/news/55-global...192016818.html

[smbdyiam2]

Does this have any effect on global warming . climate change. food shortages?

Anything good?

[Singularity]

Originally Posted by smbdyiam2

Does this have any effect on global warming . climate change. food shortages?

Anything good?

It has caused a drastic reduction in the number of global warming threads, but it doesn't seem to have reduced the number of threads where people throw data/statistics at one another.

But to your point, it's been widely observed that there's been at least a temporary production of a lot of ~toxic emissions while countries are dealing with food hoarding not just at the local level but international level (if you google around).

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by smbdyiam2

Does this have any effect on global warming . climate change. food shortages?

Anything good?

I think that the greenest of greenies would rather have no COVID-19 and things as they were, than to celebrate any short-term reduction in CO2 production.

Food shortages might become a bigger problem, especially if the spoiled more developed nations can't bring in their usual quota of underpaid migrant agricultural workers.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Reasonable and desirable.

I want to know what to do tomorrow, I’ll leave the blame game to the historians.

But as we're seeing, others won't. Too good of a crisis not to try and score political points for the unyielding partisans amongst us. Besides, everybody already knows what it's really about, and how the battle lines are being drawn. [yawn]

[Midnight Son]

Originally Posted by smbdyiam2

Does this have any effect on global warming . climate change. food shortages?

Anything good?

Yes, yes it will. NO2 is down, CO2 meh - too little to make any difference (check Hawaii numbers), food shortages (not yet) but the migrant workers can't cross the borders, if they can, and come down with Covid-19 and can't work?? So spring vegetable planting in Ontario is going to suffer, greatly.


So Gord and I get to spend more of our hard earned dollars on food this year. Oh joy, oh joy!


Stay safe

[zeehag]

perhaps the govt has intelligence for a change--migrant workers with permits are necessary workers and allowed to cross.
you folks get all bent outta shape about your avocados -- donot worry you will have em.
gotta remember the operative word in all this. no UNnecessary travel.