corona virus alerts - Latest cruising Information for vessels/locations/rules

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

It's because everybody counts differently.

Some count all deaths during corona, some count all deaths with a positive corona test post mortem, some count deaths caused by corona only like a lung embolie, not suizides, heart attacks etc. Some count collateral damages as corona deaths where people died because not going to the hospital fearing of corona.

smj you are right, canada has bit less deaths than us per million. But not that much. I am just frustrated sailor and looks like wil continue to be that way.

Anyway, I think things will get actually lot worse soon. One better prepare for shtf thing. When large successful investors suggesting worst is to come and MSM pushing positive spin, with crumbs of scare stories, this is real bad combination i am afraid.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by smj

The infection and death rate between Canada and the US is nowhere close to similar

As a follow up to my previous post regarding the extension of the US border closures for non-essential travel purposes.

"This Amended Order and Extension applies to all persons traveling from Canada or Mexico (regardless of their country of origin) who would otherwise be introduced into a congregate setting in any land or coastal Port Of Entry [POE] or Border Patrol station at or near the border with Canada and Mexico, subject to exceptions."

"This Amended Order and Extension goes into effect at 12:00 a.m. Eastern Daylight Time (EDT) on May 21, 2020 and shall remain in effect until I determine that the danger of further introduction of COVID-19 into the United States has ceased to be a serious danger to the public health. Upon making this determination, I will publish a notice in the Federal Register terminating this Order and its Extensions. CDC shall reassess the Order every 30 days to determine whether current conditions warrant continued implementation, modification, or termination of the Order. I may further amend or extend the Order as needed to protect the public health.

The "I" in the order closing the USA borders is Robert R. Redfield, MD, the Director of the United States of America's Centers for Disease Control and Prevention [a.k.a. the CDC].

Per the order the CDC will reassess the order every 30 days, but will remain in effect indefinitely until amended or rescinded by the Director of the CDC.

[jdazey]

Alaska 14 day quarantine requirement for visitors extended another 14 days:


https://www.alaskapublic.org/2020/05...wo-more-weeks/


We're hoping that the 14 day extensions will have ended by mid-july so that our cruise to Alaska will be possible. If Canada remains closed, we'll sail offshore to get there.


Cheers,

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by jdazey

Alaska 14 day quarantine requirement for visitors extended another 14 days:


https://www.alaskapublic.org/2020/05...wo-more-weeks/


We're hoping that the 14 day extensions will have ended by mid-july so that our cruise to Alaska will be possible. If Canada remains closed, we'll sail offshore to get there.


Cheers,

Alaska's Salmon fishing season is initiating and crews are arriving from the Pacific Northwest to station at small fishing villages. Their arrival is of importance as to the base economy and food harvesting is an essential purpose. There is much debate as to whether to just prohibit or regulate the fishing for the season. They have implemented special protocols as to handling the seasonal arrivals as to testing, quarantining on boat and / or ashore and limiting shore based contacts at wharfs and avoiding any unessential travel beyond the commercially required contacts. Obviously of huge concern especially given the very limited community spread that has occurred in Alaska and there excellent control over spread but the inherent complete naivete of the population as to having not been exposed to date to the virus and the very limited capacity of the health care system to handle a spread of a contagion.

I suspect that any and all non-essential travelers would be highly unwelcomed and probably prohibited. Similar to say Hawaii clamping down extensively on any and all non-essential travelers since they too are a State that has contained the virus from rampant community spread and their discouraging of tourism to the isles. Tourism / hospitality being the foremost economic sector of Hawaii.

I am a Montanan and our State is seconded only to Alaska or Hawaii on a daily basis in clamping down the spread and is not desirous to have it spread by anyone that arrives. All non-essential travelers to Montana are to self-isolate for 14 days, including returning Montanans. I don't see any reason for not continuing that so long as the community spread remains near zero. Sure tourism takes a hit, but that is as non-essential of an activity as one can assess, albeit there are several million tourists that come to Montana during the summer months and only just over 1 million Montanans so the tourism industry is a significant economic value creator and we appreciate that people like to visit The Last Best Place. I perceive that while this epidemic is running its course, that one should look to remain close to home and avoid unnecessary social contacts to the extent possible, recreational travel being at the top of the list of unnecessary / unessential activities. Heck even the Airline Flight Attendants Union whose jobs rely extensively on tourism are formally advocating that all non-essential air travel be banned until Covid 19 can risks can be mitigated pharmaceutically. The Flight Attendants recognize that limiting air travel can be a critical non-pharmaceutical intervention when there is no present safe or effective pharmaceutical intervention capabilities to mitigate the disease or the spread of the virus. Yellowstone National Park opened two days ago but only from the Wyoming gate side and there was a throng of out of staters not providing for proper social distancing or wearing face masks to the consternation and danger of the Park rangers and worrying the Wyoming natives in the local communities. Ordinarily park visitors are welcomed by natives of the adjoining States, this year there is much reticence of having them about particularly given their tendency to not practice even the most basic safety protocols. Montana has yet to open its entrances to the National Parks.

[jdazey]

While we share your concerns, we'll take our cue from the Governor and Chief Medical Officer of Alaska. Oh, and the Governor of Montana. Montana is the second to the last best place.



Cheers,

[Kimo_Kai]

[QUOTE=jdazey;3144230]While we share your concerns, we'll take our cue from the Governor and Chief Medical Officer of Alaska. Oh, and the Governor of Montana. Montana is the second to the last best place.

Never been to either of those states but prior to the virus, we had so many people moving to Maui from Montana and Alaska. Makes me wonder...

Here in The Aloha State, we have a 14 day quarrantine for anyone arriving from out of state and even from different islands within the state. If I go to Oahu, it's 14 days. Where normally we have ad campaigns to encourage tourism, now we have ad campaigns to discourage it.

Polynesia has a long history of massive loss of life caused by foreign diseases. There is also a strong tradition of honoring our older folks. We could have this quarrantine for a very long time...


Kimo
Marooned on Maui

[Montanan]

[QUOTE=Kimo_Kai;3144252]

Originally Posted by jdazey

While we share your concerns, we'll take our cue from the Governor and Chief Medical Officer of Alaska. Oh, and the Governor of Montana. Montana is the second to the last best place.

Never been to either of those states but prior to the virus, we had so many people moving to Maui from Montana and Alaska. Makes me wonder...

Here in The Aloha State, we have a 14 day quarrantine for anyone arriving from out of state and even from different islands within the state. If I go to Oahu, it's 14 days. Where normally we have ad campaigns to encourage tourism, now we have ad campaigns to discourage it.

Polynesia has a long history of massive loss of life caused by foreign diseases. There is also a strong tradition of honoring our older folks. We could have this quarrantine for a very long time...


Kimo
Marooned on Maui

Aloha Kimo.

There on your beautiful islands, the introduction of the first outside diseases occurred in 1778, with the arrival of Captain Cook, and was truly catastrophic

Similar sad and adverse experiences were realized with the Native Americans, here where I have the privilege to live with on the Flathead Nation of the Confederated Salish and Kootenai Tribes in the State of Montaña. The sensitivity runs deep and profound in their culture and the People also honor deeply their elders, especially the remaining fullblood members of the tribes. And I suspect also similarly with the First Peoples of Alaska.

An enlightening and on point reading of a recent article in the Smithsonian Magazine [March 25, 2020 edition] titled: Shutting Down Hawai‘i: A Historical Perspective on Epidemics in the Islands https://www.smithsonianmag.com/histo...nds-180974506/

Snipet:

"Captain Cook visited the island of Ni‘ihau, on the far northwestern end of the chain, in January 17 of that year. His journals remark on the health of the people, and the absence of disease. He knew his men were carrying venereal diseases, and he tried to keep them away from the native women. But when their ships were blown offshore, men that were left on the island had to stay for three days. Nine months later when Cook returned to the islands, he found that the venereal disease had spread throughout the entire archipelago. While it’s uncertain exactly which disease it was, the impact was unmistakable. By the time French explorer La Pérouse arrived in the 1790s, he said of Hawaiian women that “their dress permitted us to observe, in most of them, traces of the ravages occasioned by the venereal disease.” The disease did not necessarily kill outright, but it could render the people infertile, beginning the steep downward decline of the Hawaiian population.

Then, as the nascent Hawaiian Kingdom worked to forge itself into an independent nation, foreign ships brought epidemics in waves: cholera (1804), influenza (1820s), mumps (1839), measles and whooping cough (1848-9) and smallpox (1853). These led King Kamehameha V, in 1869, to establish a quarantine station on a small island off Honolulu. Leprosy arrived around that time and led the kingdom, under pressure from Western advisors, to quarantine those suspected of being infected (predominantly Native Hawaiians) on the island of Moloka‘i—a move that has since been interpreted as another means by which Native Hawaiians were intentionally disempowered."

. . .


"Contemporary scholarship estimates that here, as in the Americas, introduced diseases reduced the Native population by as much as 90 percent over 50 years. Though the Hawaiian population ultimately bounced back, starting around 1900, the damage had been done: people of Western descent had overthrown the legitimate government of the kingdom, the United States had annexed the islands against the wishes of the Hawaiian people, and Americanization had set it, culminating with statehood in 1959."

Montaña's official recent State tourism promotional logo has been "Get Lost in Montana"; but with the advent of Covid 19, tourism is being discouraged by most and instead the State is oriented toward prospective visitors to consider coming to The Last Best Place in their Future, so the logo is temporarily unofficially: Get Lost! Don't Come to Montana. At least not this year, please.

E noho palekana, Kimo.

All the best,

Dan

Kimo P.S.:

At the University of Montana - Western, located in the Dillon, the town where I have my second Montana residence, the football team has a history and good fortune of recruiting many native Hawaiians and Polynesians. Locally called the Hawaiian Pipeline as a previous Head Coach Tommy Lee was born in Hawaii and recruited many players. The Islanders are rather famous for being impervious to cold weather often walking about in shorts and T-Shirts and sandals in mid winter through the snow and chill wind. Perhaps you might know this year's newest recruits, always big and strong.

Luke Kaniho Defensive End / Tackle 6-1 245 lbs Kamuela, Hawaii / Kamehameha HS
Luke is a two-sport athlete from Kamuela, Hawaii. He recorded 47 total tackles, 15 tackles for loss and 7.5 sacks. In 2018 he was named all-BIIF on offense and all-BIIF on defense in 2019. He is also a two-time Rep 5- All-Star game invitee and a 2020 Polynesian All American Bowl Invitee. Luke is the son of Richard and June Kaniho and plans on majoring in environmental science.

Kenai Liua Defensive Lineman 6-2 266 lbs Hauula, Hawaii / Kahuku HS
Kenai is a defensive lineman from Hauula, Hawaii. He recorded 30 tackles, 9.5 tackles for loss and five sacks. He is a three-time letter winner in football and was the team MVP in 2013. The honor roll student is the son of Polikapo and Lei Liua and plans on majoring in business.

I've decided to limit my travels this year, staying near home and will endeavor to take the smallest of my three sailboats for social distancing at remote alpine lakes like the one depicted below in Glacier National Park with the words that John Steinbeck wrote in Travels with Charley. Having realized from communications with our business partners in China by mid January that a pandemic was imminently probable, I opted to not leave on further business trips, or to sail in the tropics this past winter . When they indicated that a lockdown was likely to be placed at the end of the Chinese New Year holiday so as to prevent the return migration of vast numbers of persons following an explosive disease outbreak initiating in Wuhan, they told us to expect that they would not be returning to work for a considerable period of time. My associate and cofounder of our business left China to return to Montaña about January 15th after having spent three weeks traveling all around the country attending to business meetings; our Chinese associates advised him to wrap up his trip, get on a plane and go home promptly. He is glad he returned when he did and has been sequestered in his home in Montaña since he arrived, safe and healthy, and we have no plans to return anytime soon to China, just doing lots of WeChat sessions. They are just beginning to reengage at their workplaces and nearer to full activity. They shut down hard and seem to have a tenuous handle on the virus but remain very diligent as to their non-pharmaceutical interventions [NPIs].

[Kimo_Kai]

[QUOTE=Montanan;3144390]

Originally Posted by Kimo_Kai

Aloha Kimo.

There on your beautiful islands, the introduction of the first outside diseases occurred in 1778, with the arrival of Captain Cook, and was truly catastrophic

Similar sad and adverse experiences were realized with the Native Americans, here where I have the privilege to live with on the Flathead Nation of the Confederated Salish and Kootenai Tribes in the State of Montaña. The sensitivity runs deep and profound in their culture and the People also honor deeply their elders, especially the remaining fullblood members of the tribes. And I suspect also similarly with the First Peoples of Alaska.

An enlightening and on point reading of a recent article in the Smithsonian Magazine [March 25, 2020 edition] titled: Shutting Down Hawai‘i: A Historical Perspective on Epidemics in the Islands https://www.smithsonianmag.com/histo...nds-180974506/

Snipet:

"Captain Cook visited the island of Ni‘ihau, on the far northwestern end of the chain, in January 17 of that year. His journals remark on the health of the people, and the absence of disease. He knew his men were carrying venereal diseases, and he tried to keep them away from the native women. But when their ships were blown offshore, men that were left on the island had to stay for three days. Nine months later when Cook returned to the islands, he found that the venereal disease had spread throughout the entire archipelago. While it’s uncertain exactly which disease it was, the impact was unmistakable. By the time French explorer La Pérouse arrived in the 1790s, he said of Hawaiian women that “their dress permitted us to observe, in most of them, traces of the ravages occasioned by the venereal disease.” The disease did not necessarily kill outright, but it could render the people infertile, beginning the steep downward decline of the Hawaiian population.

Then, as the nascent Hawaiian Kingdom worked to forge itself into an independent nation, foreign ships brought epidemics in waves: cholera (1804), influenza (1820s), mumps (1839), measles and whooping cough (1848-9) and smallpox (1853). These led King Kamehameha V, in 1869, to establish a quarantine station on a small island off Honolulu. Leprosy arrived around that time and led the kingdom, under pressure from Western advisors, to quarantine those suspected of being infected (predominantly Native Hawaiians) on the island of Moloka‘i—a move that has since been interpreted as another means by which Native Hawaiians were intentionally disempowered."

. . .


"Contemporary scholarship estimates that here, as in the Americas, introduced diseases reduced the Native population by as much as 90 percent over 50 years. Though the Hawaiian population ultimately bounced back, starting around 1900, the damage had been done: people of Western descent had overthrown the legitimate government of the kingdom, the United States had annexed the islands against the wishes of the Hawaiian people, and Americanization had set it, culminating with statehood in 1959."

Montaña's official recent State tourism promotional logo has been "Get Lost in Montana"; but with the advent of Covid 19, tourism is being discouraged by most and instead the State is oriented toward prospective visitors to consider coming to The Last Best Place in their Future, so the logo is temporarily unofficially: Get Lost! Don't Come to Montana. At least not this year, please.

E noho palekana, Kimo.

All the best,

Dan

Kimo P.S.:

At the University of Montana - Western, located in the Dillon, the town where I have my second Montana residence, the football team has a history and good fortune of recruiting many native Hawaiians and Polynesians. Locally called the Hawaiian Pipeline as a previous Head Coach Tommy Lee was born in Hawaii and recruited many players. The Islanders are rather famous for being impervious to cold weather often walking about in shorts and T-Shirts and sandals in mid winter through the snow and chill wind. Perhaps you might know this year's newest recruits, always big and strong.

Luke Kaniho Defensive End / Tackle 6-1 245 lbs Kamuela, Hawaii / Kamehameha HS
Luke is a two-sport athlete from Kamuela, Hawaii. He recorded 47 total tackles, 15 tackles for loss and 7.5 sacks. In 2018 he was named all-BIIF on offense and all-BIIF on defense in 2019. He is also a two-time Rep 5- All-Star game invitee and a 2020 Polynesian All American Bowl Invitee. Luke is the son of Richard and June Kaniho and plans on majoring in environmental science.

Kenai Liua Defensive Lineman 6-2 266 lbs Hauula, Hawaii / Kahuku HS
Kenai is a defensive lineman from Hauula, Hawaii. He recorded 30 tackles, 9.5 tackles for loss and five sacks. He is a three-time letter winner in football and was the team MVP in 2013. The honor roll student is the son of Polikapo and Lei Liua and plans on majoring in business.

I've decided to limit my travels this year, staying near home and will endeavor to take the smallest of my three sailboats for social distancing at remote alpine lakes like the one depicted below in Glacier National Park with the words that John Steinbeck wrote in Travels with Charley. Having realized from communications with our business partners in China by mid January that a pandemic was imminently probable, I opted to not leave on further business trips, or to sail in the tropics this past winter . When they indicated that a lockdown was likely to be placed at the end of the Chinese New Year holiday so as to prevent the return migration of vast numbers of persons following an explosive disease outbreak initiating in Wuhan, they told us to expect that they would not be returning to work for a considerable period of time. My associate and cofounder of our business left China to return to Montaña about January 15th after having spent three weeks traveling all around the country attending to business meetings; our Chinese associates advised him to wrap up his trip, get on a plane and go home promptly. He is glad he returned when he did and has been sequestered in his home in Montaña since he arrived, safe and healthy, and we have no plans to return anytime soon to China, just doing lots of WeChat sessions. They are just beginning to reengage at their workplaces and nearer to full activity. They shut down hard and seem to have a tenuous handle on the virus but remain very diligent as to their non-pharmaceutical interventions [NPIs].

Mahalo nui Montanan Dan. That was such a generous and interesting post. I am humbled by your respect and admiration for your host culture. So nice to read.

Best wishes for smooth or at least fun sailing in that beautiful place! Aloha.

Kimo
Marooned on Maui

[Montanan]

[QUOTE=Kimo_Kai;3144393]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Mahalo nui Montanan Dan. That was such a generous and interesting post. I am humbled by your respect and admiration for your host culture. So nice to read.

Best wishes for smooth or at least fun sailing in that beautiful place! Aloha.

Kimo
Marooned on Maui

Olakino Maika'i, Kimo.

[arsenelupiga]

[QUOTE=Montanan;3144438]

Originally Posted by Kimo_Kai

Olakino Maika'i, Kimo.

i wonder what diseases these people in americas islands died from? Sure not from flu as old ships were slow and sailed more than 40 days over atlantic so ship crew either died or cured by time they were over.

STD?

[fivecapes]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

i wonder what diseases these people in americas islands died from? Sure not from flu as old ships were slow and sailed more than 40 days over atlantic so ship crew either died or cured by time they were over.

Think disparity in immunity, not just the diseases

[Montanan]

[QUOTE=arsenelupiga;3144449]

Originally Posted by Montanan

i wonder what diseases these people in americas islands died from?

Reference post #1417 above for the progression of disease epidemics that hit the Hawaiian Islands.

Sure not from flu as old ships were slow and sailed more than 40 days over atlantic so ship crew either died or cured by time they were over.

Influenza was one of the diseases and hit hard in the 1820's. If one sailor carried the flu on board and then the ship sailed, it would have progressed through the entire boat such that by the time it arrived most everyone would have been sick upon arrival. To aid in preventing the spread to land, the ship would have needed to go under a full quarantine which means 40 days at anchor upon arrival with no outbreak during the 40 days after admittance to the port of entry all the while laying under the Lima signal flag, attached below. [the contagion signal flag which vessels are flying upon entry for the typical at least 14 days of quarantine under the Covid 19 international protocols before being able to make landfall or disembark].

The practice of quarantine, as we know it, began during the 14th century in an effort to protect coastal cities from plague epidemics. Ships arriving in Venice from infected ports were required to sit at anchor for 40 days before landing. This practice, called quarantine, was derived from the Italian words quaranta giorni which mean 40 days.

STD?
Yes that was the first epidemic.

Notes above.

[Montanan]

[QUOTE=Kimo_Kai;3144393]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Mahalo nui Montanan Dan. That was such a generous and interesting post. I am humbled by your respect and admiration for your host culture. So nice to read.

Best wishes for smooth or at least fun sailing in that beautiful place! Aloha.

Kimo
Marooned on Maui

Kimo,

I just got to thinking today would have been Iz's 61st Birthday; that thought initially made me feel a sense of missing and sadness. But then I decided to play one of my favorite songs of his and joy abounded. I will leave you with my sharing of a chosen selection. So wish I had heard him in person that would have been a true blessing and a fondest memory. IZ lives on in his songs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1bFr2SWP1I

Hauoli

Dan

[Montanan]

Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd and Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings Ltd on Wednesday extended the suspension of voyages by another month until July 31 amid sailing curbs imposed to check the spread of the coronavirus.

https://gcaptain.com/royal-caribbean...eid=5626ef2c30

With No Sail Orders in place, such as established by the USCG for US waters and with international borders closed and rejecting cruise ships, there are few opportunities for cruise ships to establish itineraries and take bookings, even if there was sufficient customer demand to go for a cruise during a Covid 19 pandemic which pandemic is still in its early stages. And there are no assurances that the itinerary can actually be successfully followed once the ship set on its voyage as the virus establishes its own rules which makes for a very fluid public health management environment. One could board a ship and then find oneself stuck onboard the ship and not allowed to disembark or to repatriate at the end of the journey.

And finally there is not much opportunity to practice social distancing on board a vessel, regardless of size of the vessel. Your shipmates should be your housemates under Covid 19 protocols.

[Kimo_Kai]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd and Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings Ltd on Wednesday extended the suspension of voyages by another month until July 31 amid sailing curbs imposed to check the spread of the coronavirus.

https://gcaptain.com/royal-caribbean...eid=5626ef2c30

With No Sail Orders in place, such as established by the USCG for US waters and with international borders closed and rejecting cruise ships, there are few opportunities for cruise ships to establish itineraries and take bookings, even if there was sufficient customer demand to go for a cruise during a Covid 19 pandemic which pandemic is still in its early stages. And there are no assurances that the itinerary can actually be successfully followed once the ship set on its voyage as the virus establishes its own rules which makes for a very fluid public health management environment. One could board a ship and then find oneself stuck onboard the ship and not allowed to disembark or to repatriate at the end of the journey.

And finally there is not much opportunity to practice social distancing on board a vessel, regardless of size of the vessel. Your shipmates should be your housemates under Covid 19 protocols.

Aloha all! There is so much working against the cruise ship industry. The lawsuits alone...
My gut tells me that if one of those thngs pulled up to Maui in the next 90 days, even if we had not had a new case in 90 days, that the happy passengers disembarking for an adventure in paradise on the road to Hana, would be met with a throng of Kia'i - protectors waving signs and voicing their feelings.

I don't have a crystal ball but my gut tells me that folks who disembark their ships and planes any time in the near future, if not ever, expecting a wahine in a grass skirt to place a lei around their neck and kiss them on the cheek, well, they might have a rude awakening.

Cruisers (of private SVs), on the other hand, can come in much more low key, and will have the time to quarrantine 14 days (time at sea does not count). Again, probably best not to expect lovely ladies waiting on the dock for you in a coconut bikini, but no one waiving signs to please sail on either.

The latest thinking is that the interisland 14 day quarrantine will end early in June - ahead of schedule. Currently the edict is through end of June. This according to our LT Gov who is running for Gov. So it might become easier to island hop once you do your initial 14 days. For folks ready to get the heck out of FP, this could be good news. Stay tuned!


Kimo
Marooned on Maui