Covid vaccination status for CF members

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Is that why folk in N America are wanting to defund the police.???
Get real Mike.. I get it that many are scared for themselves but really.. enough with laying guilt trips on others.
Either vaccines work or they don't..
Either you believe or you don't..
Either way, I live in Portugal.. so your safe..

If this really is you speaking, and not some intentional provocation as you say you do, then you simply don't understand mass vaccinations. You're a smart guy. Do some basic research. You'll see it's not "either".

And I'm sorry if you feel guilty about it. I'm not laying a guilt trip on you. I'm giving you the truth. If you feel guilty, then maybe you should think about why that may be.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Greg K

Yeah, so here we go again. The main danger to others are sick people. And common sense tells us they should refrain from contact with others in close proximity until they have recovered. That goes for both the unvaccinated and vaccinated alike.

Those who are asymptomatic, regardless whether vaccinated or not, are now generally thought to have minimal if any possibility of being infectious and therefore pose little danger to others.

I have challenged you and others to provide links to research that categorically states otherwise and that challenge is still open. So, again, until you can provide evidence that unvacinated asymptomatics are any more infectious than vaccinated asymptomatics your unsupported assertion that unvaccinated healthy people are a danger to others and that, therefore, the unvaccinated are socially irresponsible remains total bunk, and you really should stop repeating it.

Yes, we did go over this, and once again you conveniently ignore the findings that while asymptomatic folk are found to have a low risk of transmission, PRE-symptomatic folks have a high risk -- the highest in some studies.

Asymptomatic and PRE-symptomatic present the same, so you advise is useless in the real world.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Greg K

Those who are asymptomatic, regardless whether vaccinated or not, are now generally thought to have minimal if any possibility of being infectious and therefore pose little danger to others.

That statement runs counter to logic in so many ways. Not least that one can't easily identify the asymptomatic, or predict whether they'll stay asymptomatic or are actually pre-symptomatic. So you're the one with the burden of proving this counter-intuitive claim.

The unvaccinated are of course more susceptible to COVID and if nothing else, are much more likely to be transmission vectors. That's more than enough reason to aim for mass vaccination. Remember "herd immunity" and why it's important to get there?

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by UFO

At the moment everything is pretty much closed around me - Indo opened up for a few weeks then shut again, Malaysia is kicking out cruisers and Thailand is charging big $$$.


So yes it looks like the land of Oz is what I get at the moment, fortunately its very big and plenty of places to go


If you have ever read any of my posts you will know that I am very happy to take the risk of Covid - Probably already had it when I was in Japan when it all kicked off and i was ill with a sore throat, cough and fever and there is always quarantine and testing on the boat to get into countries. Much rather have a natural immunity than a man made one, especially with all the negative reports on side effects going around along with some scientist talking about the unknown long term effects.


Anyway I am also very happy for those that want to get the vaccine take it, I am not anti-vac, just freedom of choice to take it and info about the issues with it.

Indonesia, Thailand, Maldives, Seychelles are all open to cruisers.
You maybe happy to take the risk of getting Covid, but my point was you are staying in a place with very low risk. If you want to cruise internationally anytime soon you will be in places with much higher risk and/or require vaccination prior to entry. Not getting a vaccine might just cut your cruising plans drastically.

I'm all for choice too. Don't really care one way or another if you get the jab. I just don't see it as practical to not get jabbed and plan world cruising anytime soon.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Indonesia, Thailand, Maldives, Seychelles are all open to cruisers.
You maybe happy to take the risk of getting Covid, but my point was you are staying in a place with very low risk. If you want to cruise internationally anytime soon you will be in places with much higher risk and/or require vaccination prior to entry. Not getting a vaccine might just cut your cruising plans drastically.

I'm all for choice too. Don't really care one way or another if you get the jab. I just don't see it as practical to not get jabbed and plan world cruising anytime soon.

Indo shut a day or 2 ago and Thailand is expensive.


As they say, Where there is a will there is a way.


The whole vaccination thing is not going to pan out - Too many variants of covid which they will never keep up with on a global scale along with people unable to get vaccinated because the supply is not there - How can they seriously enforce it in such a world? - Quarantine maybe.... Or maybe the world will wake up and come to its senses and realise that it can not control nature and except what will be will be.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Zai

To stay on thread, I have not been vaccinated and am still uncertain if I will when the opportunity arises. I am not an anti vaxer.

That's your call. Personal decision.

Arguments arise when when people start stating misinformation to try to justify their choice as the more rational one, or start beating the anti-vax drum. The facts and the percentages overwhelmingly point in one direction... but if one has a unique situation like past reactions to injections... or they simply remain fearful of it despite knowing the facts... fine. Just own it.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

In this case, the biggest “payoff” for not smoking is a much greater likelihood of living a longer and healthier life without respiratory problems, and pretty much everyone in N America is already aware of that so there’s much less smoking going on here than there used to be. But there’s always the 10% that never get the word and are still trying to be the Marlboro man. Plus, I’ve noticed that most smokers seem to have no idea that they literally stink and non smokers can usually smell them coming from quite a long distance away so when they quit that’s a “payoff” we can all enjoy. Ive never understood why people do that to themselves but as long as I can keep them to leeward and they don’t expect me to help pay for their much more expensive final years of healthcare from a condition they knowingly inflicted on thrmself, to each their own.

Funny thing is I have lived with several non smoking women over the years and they all seemed surprised I did not smell like an ash tray.. regular change of clothes, showers and Paco Rabanne work wonders..
As for lung damage.. occupational hazards have had a greater effect on my lungs than smoking has and to date I have had no treatment for smoking related problems.
Re cost in later years for health care.. the average smoker on 20/day pays around £3000/year (£150,000 over 50yrs) more in taxes than a non smoker, maybe you should have a pop at governments for poor tax allocations, not investing those taxes directly into the Health Services.
Marlboro Man smoked toasted crap.. whadya expect, he signed his own death warrant.
Oh... The missus has gone in for her jab today.. will report any horns or cloved hooves appearing over the next few days.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by UFO

Indo shut a day or 2 ago and Thailand is expensive.


As they say, Where there is a will there is a way.


The whole vaccination thing is not going to pan out - Too many variants of covid which they will never keep up with on a global scale along with people unable to get vaccinated because the supply is not there - How can they seriously enforce it in such a world? - Quarantine maybe.... Or maybe the world will wake up and come to its senses and realise that it can not control nature and except what will be will be.

Cruising is expensive. You can still get Indo e visas.

So you think that you won't be shut out of countries as a cruiser because you are unvaccinated - or are you saying you'll just strike them off your list? Some countries are hard to strike off your list when making passages, they are just p on the way and in the right cyclone season.
As you say, Australia is a big country. Thousands of miles of never ending shoreline. I thought it was never going to end when we came up from Tasmania to Thursday Island.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

If this really is you speaking, and not some intentional provocation as you say you do, then you simply don't understand mass vaccinations. You're a smart guy. Do some basic research. You'll see it's not "either".

And I'm sorry if you feel guilty about it. I'm not laying a guilt trip on you. I'm giving you the truth. If you feel guilty, then maybe you should think about why that may be.

No guilt at all mate.. but keep trying..

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by Greg K

Yeah, so here we go again. The main danger to others are sick people. And common sense tells us they should refrain from contact with others in close proximity until they have recovered. That goes for both the unvaccinated and vaccinated alike.

Those who are asymptomatic, regardless whether vaccinated or not, are now generally thought to have minimal if any possibility of being infectious and therefore pose little danger to others.

I have challenged you and others to provide links to research that categorically states otherwise and that challenge is still open. So, again, until you can provide evidence that unvacinated asymptomatics are any more infectious than vaccinated asymptomatics your unsupported assertion that unvaccinated healthy people are a danger to others and that, therefore, the unvaccinated are socially irresponsible remains total bunk, and you really should stop repeating it.

Even assuming that both vaxed and unvaxed people without symptoms pose a similar low level of danger to others, there are many more of the unvaccinated population who are continuing to become infected (symptomatic or not) and in whom the virus continues to mutate. Plus, how do you tell an unvaccinated presymptomatic person on the verge of full blown Covid from an asymptomatic unvaccinated person? You can’t. But if someone has been vaccinated it’s a pretty safe bet that if they aren’t showing any symptoms they’ll stay that way and the risk of catching Covid from them will remain very low. So unvaccinated, ‘apparently’ healthy people ARE a a bigger danger to others than are those who have been vaccinated.

[GordMay]

Rare COVID-19 vaccine blood clots explained ➥ https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1891811395980

[boatman61]

This out of a Portugal Resident article about the Astra Zeneca controversy..

The Resident received an email from a ‘reader’ in the United States after this article came out. The reader said she was an ICU nurse in Michigan. She said we had not mentioned the sex or ages of people said to have suffered blood clots – nor the numbers (which is because we didn’t have this data to hand at the time). According to this reader, the most liable for clotting with AstraZeneca will be middle-aged women on the pill, particularly if they smoke and are overweight. She added: “Tomorrow why don’t you report about Michigan and nearly 300 people becoming infected though fully vaccinated after 14 days and some deaths. They only use Pfizer and some Moderna. Also the same sinus clots have been found in Pfizer but without the platelet drop.”

Not trying to support any agenda just putting out info as others here claim to be doing..

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by UFO

The whole vaccination thing is not going to pan out - Too many variants of covid which they will never keep up with on a global scale along with people unable to get vaccinated because the supply is not there - How can they seriously enforce it in such a world? - Quarantine maybe.... Or maybe the world will wake up and come to its senses and realise that it can not control nature and except what will be will be.

You've shown repeatedly that you don't have a good understanding of viral immunity, or the differences between "natural" immunity and that from vaccination. So your prediction can safely be ignored.

One of the other problems with the vaccination rollout and uptake in this information age are the loud noises from a very small number of anti-vax quacks, amplified by those using this as just another political wedge issue, and willingly parroted by the ignorant. But maybe if enough of you keep hard at it, I suppose it could be enough to make your predictions come true.

(you of course WILL get vaccinated eventually, unless you relish the idea of owning a 40 ft daysailor )

[danstanford]

Originally Posted by UFO

Really??? You are going to go as far as that? It's quite sad GAL

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canad...7TR?li=AAggNb9

Please read my comment as intended to help explain Mike's position on the need to consider more than your own rights and go on to how your actions affect others.

To be clear, I have been twisting on the topics of the lockdowns and other restrictions since the beginning. I do not think they have ever been shown to be ineffective and they certainly seem to have been way more effective than the horrible situation playing out in India, but I have always thought there was a better way though I am happy to let the people who study this have the last say. In any case I have followed the safety protocols in every way believing that it was my responsibility to my family, my staff, and my neighbours.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by boatman61

No guilt at all mate.. but keep trying..

The only thing I'm trying to do is stop the spread of misinformation.

Getting vaccinated is definitely a personal choice, but the consequences of this choice are not confined to the individual. If you don't want to get vaccinated, then fine. But don't hide behind made up justification.

Originally Posted by danstanford

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canad...7TR?li=AAggNb9

Please read my comment as intended to help explain Mike's position on the need to consider more than your own rights and go on to how your actions affect others.

Thanks Dan. I appreciate your thoughtful approach to the subject. And I completely agree with you on being torn about the public health measures, especially the removal of so many of our freedoms. I've been concerned about the arbitrary and rapid nature of these moves from the get-go. I fear these are the long-term lessons those in power will take away from this pandemic (i.e. how easy it is to take more of our freedoms away).

The sad reality is that if people behaved responsibly, and simply wore a mask and kept the physical distant requirements, then this would remove the justification for many of the draconian government measures. But just as with drunk driving, there are some who never understand that with rights come responsibilities. So we all suffer...