Covid vaccination status for CF members

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by UFO

So why are they pushing it onto people that really don't need it and also now running trials on children?

Why are they talking about removing certain rights and freedoms from those that are not vaccinated if its so effective - Why the need for vaccine passports as well if this is the case?

Once those at risk who need the vaccine have been vaccinated and are safe then why do the rest of us need to take the vaccine?

Did you not read the article referenced? Or is it that you didn't understand it? The entire thrust of the piece is an answer to your question(s).

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Did you not read the article referenced? Or is it that you didn't understand it?

For some contributors, take that as a given.

As to "So why are they pushing it onto people that really don't need it?"... everyone needs to be vaccinated, or to acquire immunity through having had COVID... in order to stop uncontrolled transmission. Sad that this needs to be said again, over a year into the thing...

Why kids? A 13 yr old died in BC, a 16 yr old in Ontario... if they can catch it, spread it and get seriously ill, or die from it, then it would probably be a good idea to vaccinate kids too.

The CF vaccine battle seems to have settled into trench warfare. But all the cards have been played:

• vaccination is working, side-effects are quite rare, and I have high confidence that the more info we get, the more its use will be vindicated and praised, and more will clamour for it.
• In the poorer countries where vaccination has not yet been rolled out, the sickness and death are epic. If some treatment like ivermectin actually works, it will be used, recommended, and we will see lower CFR rates among the treated. If it doesn't... we will know, one way or the other
• Once vaccination has been taken up by all who will take it, the hospital COVID wards will be 99% made up of the reluctant and those who refused vaccination
• if a significant proportion of the population is reluctant or refuses to get vaccinated, so that the R factor is not solidly below 1, there will be vaccine passports or some other form of control for public gathering areas and most travel.
• The release of COVID restrictions will bring an economic mini-boom and some good times. It's like banging your head against a wall: it's gonna feel so good when it stops. And we all hope for normal afterwards. Could be better than normal if we apply some lessons learned...

There's really nothing much more to be said from either side. Maybe this thread could return to reporting vaccination status for CF members?

Naaaah...

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by UFO

So why are they pushing it onto people that really don't need it and also now running trials on children?

Why are they talking about removing certain rights and freedoms from those that are not vaccinated if its so effective - Why the need for vaccine passports as well if this is the case?

Once those at risk who need the vaccine have been vaccinated and are safe then why do the rest of us need to take the vaccine?

This has been explained to you already -- you're not paying attention. In order to stop the pandemic, we have to reach herd immunity. "Stopping the pandemic" does not mean eradicating the virus -- it is doubtful we will achieve that. But stopping the pandemic is really vital so that society can get back to normal and people will stop dying. We will not reach herd immunity in any reasonable period of time, if ever, through natural immunity. So it is really important that a certain number of people get vaccinated.

In the U.S., the states have the right even to require people to get vaccinated -- see Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11 (1905). As a libertarian, I hope it won't come to that -- I think that few enough people are opposed to getting vaccinated that we can leave them alone. But it will be really useful if the rest of society would go ahead and get jabbed.

There is a point of view, held by some people I respect greatly, that once the vulnerable are protected, you can just let the virus keep romping. I think wise men may disagree on this -- I don't agree with that point of view, personally. But WHY we are trying to vaccinate everyone, whether you agree with it or not, has been explained.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

. . . Why kids? A 13 yr old died in BC, a 16 yr old in Ontario... if they can catch it, spread it and get seriously ill, or die from it, then it would probably be a good idea to vaccinate kids too.. . ..

Missing context for this remark is that death from COVID among teenagers is extremely rare.


However, serious side effects from the vaccines are even much rarer than that, by orders of magnitude.



So it's worth it for sure UNLESS you think there may be some unknown long term side effects. Some people I have a lot of respect for are concerned with this. As we gather vast amounts of real life experience from BILLIONS of people being vaccinated, we will gradually exclude these fears, I think, but we shall see. So far all of our real life experience has confirmed the results of the clinical trials.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

[Vaccination is] worth it for sure UNLESS you think there may be some unknown long term side effects. Some people I have a lot of respect for are concerned with this.

Can you share some of those sources? Yes, the rare clotting thing is concerning, but it's also a characteristic of COVID itself, and happens in the infected at a much higher rate. Otherwise, most of the concerns I've heard so far re long-term issues of COVID vaccinations are arguments based on "trials were too short", "big pharma", "genetic manipulation", and other tinfoil stuff... but everything credible I've read to date underscores that these are well-crafted vaccines that have received substantial testing for safety, and that there's nothing in their new technology that should give rise to phobias about gene therapy etc.

[Dave22q]

There's really nothing much more to be said from either side. Maybe this thread could return to reporting vaccination status for CF members?


some inconvenient COVID facts. Serious threat to the infirm and elderly ONLY. The numbers are clear. Incidence vastly exaggerated because PCR tests are over amplified causing false positives. Deaths overstated because Federal payments only on claimed cases. Media scare tactics amplify rare cases--13 yr old dies in Ontario ( how many were shot in ghettos or hit by cars), 1 in 500,000 women got blood clots ( how many birth control users get them), etc. It is clear, like most diseases some are immune, some resistant, some vulnerable. There is a reason why nursing home death rates never came near a majority despite stupid policies forcing exposure. Transmission risks outdoors or in schools are known to be minimal and this is not new information. There was NEVER a scientific basis for masks, 6' distancing closing schools, beaches, golf courses, stadiums, etc. Panic was substituted for rational policy by folks who should have known better. Now we have foolish apologists who try to rationalize the stupid panic created by a weird combination of stupidity, ignorance, and greed for power. Good luck with that.
PS your vaccination passports will be widely counterfeited as fast as they are implemented.

.[/QUOTE]

[davil]

[QUOTE=Dockhead;3399219]This has been explained to you already -- you're not paying attention. In order to stop the pandemic, we have to reach herd immunity.
=================================================



some confusion between "herd immunity " and "herd mentality"
clarification needed.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Dave22q

. . .
PS your vaccination passports will be widely counterfeited as fast as they are implemented.

.

[/QUOTE]

There definitely will be significant degrees of reliability of the "Covid passports" / certificates as to the accuracy of their conveyed data which could include:

1) Vaccination type and date.
2) Negative Covid testing data, [e.g., type and date of test, say within 48 to 72 hours to be valid].
3) Proof of having had Covid by antibody tests.

Each country will make an assessment of their requirements for travel and for entry to events and buildings and employers as to employment.

The EU is pursuing digital certificates which will have the above data derived from national heath records and the certificate will have an assigned QR code providing for proof of validity and the details and the link back for confirmation to the EU databases.

Note that presently the EU is only likely to provide entry for those that have been vaccinated with vaccines approved by the EU medical authority, this leaves out many vaccines such as Russia's and China's.

As to the USA, presently the CDC has a downloadable and printable vaccination record card which one can write in their own data or which typically the pharmacist, doctor, clinic writes in the data as to vaccine type and date. This handwritten card is definitely not counterproof. Our pharmacist misspelled my wife's last name and when she asked to have it corrected they just scratched out the last name and hand wrote in her correct last name. Upon returning to pick up some prescription medicines the next day, they just gave me a blank CDC form and told me that my wife could just copy in the data from the original one they had given to her but use her correct legal name. So yeah, the USA vaccine records are certainly not reliable proof of vaccination documents.

I suspect that since the USA vaccine recordation is decidedly inadequate that there very well be continued restriction of foreign travel by vaccinated Americans into many countries. The "honor" system is not likely to be acceptable by countries that have comparatively sophisticated, reliable national vaccine databases.

The USA's Covid vaccine records certainly are not to the level of reliability of the The International Certificate of Vaccination or Prophylaxis (ICVP), also known as the Carte Jaune or Yellow Card, which is an official vaccination record created by the World Health Organization (WHO). As a travel document, it is a kind of 'medical passport' that is recognised internationally and may be required for entry to certain countries where there are increased health risks for travellers. Even the ICVP has become susceptible to counterfeiting and that is the reason that more countries are implementing digital certificates for the routine vaccination requirements which also have a QR code providing reliability.

According to International Health Regulations, yellow fever vaccine must be administered at certified yellow fever vaccination centers. Health-care providers are authorized to administer the vaccine by state health departments and the states then report certified providers to US CDC. The registry serves as a central reporting location that simplifies validity tracking and improves communication between CDC, health departments, and vaccine providers.

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by Dave22q

There's really nothing much more to be said from either side. Maybe this thread could return to reporting vaccination status for CF members?


some inconvenient COVID facts. Serious threat to the infirm and elderly ONLY. The numbers are clear. Incidence vastly exaggerated because PCR tests are over amplified causing false positives. Deaths overstated because Federal payments only on claimed cases. Media scare tactics amplify rare cases--13 yr old dies in Ontario ( how many were shot in ghettos or hit by cars), 1 in 500,000 women got blood clots ( how many birth control users get them), etc. It is clear, like most diseases some are immune, some resistant, some vulnerable. There is a reason why nursing home death rates never came near a majority despite stupid policies forcing exposure. Transmission risks outdoors or in schools are known to be minimal and this is not new information. There was NEVER a scientific basis for masks, 6' distancing closing schools, beaches, golf courses, stadiums, etc. Panic was substituted for rational policy by folks who should have known better. Now we have foolish apologists who try to rationalize the stupid panic created by a weird combination of stupidity, ignorance, and greed for power. Good luck with that.
PS your vaccination passports will be widely counterfeited as fast as they are implemented.

.

[/QUOTE]

The SCIENCE behind mask use and its effectiveness in helping to prevent many direct infections is so simple that most understand it.

Wearing a mask is 100% better than none at all.
Why?
Because there is no chance of a mask working if it isn't worn.

If it is worn, the chances of avoiding at least some infections, rise!
Percentages contain so much correlative information that one cannot say truthfully that a mask doesn't keep some from being infected.
So, WHY say that there is no Scientific proof to claim not wearing one, is as safe as wearing one?

Because it's a HUGE MisInformation scheme designed to dissuade thousands of vulnerable individuals into believing the Lies of a Past Major Misinformation Administration
.
MASKS work if you wear one!!

The risk to others by you not wearing one is greater to them and lesser if you choose to use one.
Also the risks of wearing a mask are very small compared to Not using one at all.
"Stop the steal" of Legitimate Information.
Should be the call!
SV Cloud Duster

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Did you not read the article referenced? Or is it that you didn't understand it? The entire thrust of the piece is an answer to your question(s).

The real "thrust" is that people do have a choice and will always have a choice. What you think is irrelevant. That's the reality of vaccination. I have heard $100 incentives have been offered in some places to get vaccinated. Incentives is about the best that can be done.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

The real "thrust" is that people do have a choice and will always have a choice. What you think is irrelevant. That's the reality of vaccination. I have heard $100 incentives have been offered in some places to get vaccinated. Incentives is about the best that can be done.

Guess you didn't read, or understand, the article either.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

This has been explained to you already -- you're not paying attention. In order to stop the pandemic, we have to reach herd immunity. "Stopping the pandemic" does not mean eradicating the virus -- it is doubtful we will achieve that. But stopping the pandemic is really vital so that society can get back to normal and people will stop dying. We will not reach herd immunity in any reasonable period of time, if ever, through natural immunity. So it is really important that a certain number of people get vaccinated.

In the U.S., the states have the right even to require people to get vaccinated -- see Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11 (1905). As a libertarian, I hope it won't come to that -- I think that few enough people are opposed to getting vaccinated that we can leave them alone. But it will be really useful if the rest of society would go ahead and get jabbed.

There is a point of view, held by some people I respect greatly, that once the vulnerable are protected, you can just let the virus keep romping. I think wise men may disagree on this -- I don't agree with that point of view, personally. But WHY we are trying to vaccinate everyone, whether you agree with it or not, has been explained.

Come on Dockhead, your a smart guy, you and I both know that they will not eradicate this virus - In case all of you forgot the world is a LOT bigger than the West. They can't even vaccinate the West in a timely manner, let alone the world and New Variants are popping up like moles, so I think your argument fallacious.


If our esteemed leaders and scientists really believe that they can eradicate this virus then we are in REAL trouble, Unless you want to take the Australian model and ban citizens from entering from certain countries and lock out the rest of the world.



So back to my original question if the vaccines are 100% successful against Death and hospitailisation and they can vaccinate those who are at risk of all ages that need it then why the push to vaccinate EVERYONE?


FYI Herd immunity can also be achieved by vaccinating those that need it and letting the healthy normal people catch it naturally - From estimates I have seen for the UK over 30% of the population has had it already.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by UFO

So back to my original question if the vaccines are 100% successful against Death and hospitailisation and they can vaccinate those who are at risk of all ages that need it then why the push to vaccinate EVERYONE?

Your question contains the answer. But if we have to spell it out again for the bazillionth time: if you're not vaccinated, you're more likely to catch and transmit COVID. It might not kill you, but it will quite likely injure or kill someone you pass it to,

FYI Herd immunity can also be achieved by vaccinating those that need it and letting the healthy normal people catch it naturally - From estimates I have seen for the UK over 30% of the population has had it already.

Catching COVID is orders of magnitude more risky than being vaccinated.

[fxykty]

My wife and I have just had our second dose of Pfizer.

New Zealand inserts the vaccination status into our national digital health account and provides a cardboard card with the vaccination information on it. We were encouraged to photograph the card and have it laminated.



Unless there’s a worldwide standard and some way to check that a vaccination card is legitimate, it will be a free for all, just as it is with fake testing certificates now.

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Guess you didn't read, or understand, the article either.

If I read all the propaganda posted here I'd never get a word in.