Covid vaccination status for CF members

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

It's true... India's current death and case rates are not out of line with Europe. Sheer numbers make it seem scarier, but the comparisons are not really bad ... yet.

The scary thing is the trend lines. Deaths lag case rates, but both trend lines are heading up, as you can see in the two linked graphs (Data: https://ourworldindata.org/covid-cases).

And whatever the cause, I think Dan's point about herd immunity is salient for all of us. India did indeed look quite good for a long time, and natural herd immunity was thought to be a factor. The emerging variants seem to be suggesting the virus can still win.

We're all banking on vaccine-induced immunity to save our collective bacons. But the India experiment shows why the best approachs will likely remain basic public health measures: Stay home when sick. Keep distance, and wear a mask when that is not possible.

Great summary of where we’re at! The fact that new variants are constantly developing means herd immunity isn’t ever going to happen. All we can do is vaccinate as many as possible to slow the spread of all variants and have as few folks be vulnerable to developing bad cases of Covid as we can. I’m resigned to having to get a periodic update to my Pfizer vax for the foreseeable future and given the deadly nature of some variants, hope that vaccine developers can continue to keep up with the moving target that is Covid.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

It's true... India's current death and case rates are not out of line with Europe. Sheer numbers make it seem scarier, but the comparisons are not really bad ... yet.

The scary thing is the trend lines. Deaths lag case rates, but both trend lines are heading up, as you can see in the two linked graphs (Data: https://ourworldindata.org/covid-cases).

And whatever the cause, I think Dan's point about herd immunity is salient for all of us. India did indeed look quite good for a long time, and natural herd immunity was thought to be a factor. The emerging variants seem to be suggesting the virus can still win.

We're all banking on vaccine-induced immunity to save our collective bacons. But the India experiment shows why the best approachs will likely remain basic public health measures: Stay home when sick. Keep distance, and wear a mask when that is not possible.

These stats are the reported cases and deaths. It is very likely that they are way under reported now.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Sure... basic public health measures would help address all these issues.

Doubt 'measures' would change a thing.. easy to say, impossible to achieve...
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-27775327

[danstanford]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

Great summary of where we’re at! The fact that new variants are constantly developing means herd immunity isn’t ever going to happen.

Is this true? I keep hearing about the risks of re-infection but statistically it is very minor at this point from what I have seen. What bothers me is that this information is not readily available and what is there seems mostly to be more inflammatory news aimed at scaring us. Surely the data is there to show us how prevalent the re-infection has become everywhere but especially in India.
Certainly I am in favour of vaccination and all the other public health steps we have adopted but I want to know how scared I should be. Death rates have stabilized while case counts have gone up exponentially indicating the prediction that as variants become more contagious they will become less deadly is accurate, but we have largely vaccinated the most vulnerable in the populations I am referring to.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by danstanford

I keep hearing about the risks of re-infection but statistically it is very minor at this point from what I have seen. What bothers me is that this information is not readily available and what is there seems mostly to be more inflammatory news aimed at scaring us. Surely the data is there to show us how prevalent the re-infection has become everywhere but especially in India.

Good data are hard to gather and process. It's incredibly expensive to do a proper study, and self-reported data, or guesses about re-infection aren't very conclusive yet. With the added twist of the variants.

Certainly I am in favour of vaccination and all the other public health steps we have adopted but I want to know how scared I should be.

"Scared" isn't the right framing. If you're scared you can bug out, hide in a remote cabin in the woods, have the absolute minimum contact with other humans... and your risk from COVID will be zero.

What's required is for people to understand as much as possible about how COVID threatens them and their loved ones, AND how COVID impacts society and the economy, and make a cold, logical, pragmatic decision about what would be best for one's family AND for society at large.

The pragmatic, risk-assessment-based choice is pretty obvious, but CF has proven that some people's political or religious biases cloud or distort such decision-making.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

What's required is for people to understand as much as possible about how COVID threatens them and their loved ones, AND how COVID impacts society and the economy, and make a cold, logical, pragmatic decision about what would be best for one's family AND for society at large.

The pragmatic, risk-assessment-based choice is pretty obvious, but CF has proven that some people's political or religious biases cloud or distort such decision-making.

Or... Consider what is best for the planet...

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?v...rpTZp6L5CaGkPg

https://www.rcinet.ca/en/2020/04/16/...dlife-benefit/


https://greenerideal.com/news/3-reas...ring-covid-19/

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Paul L

These stats are the reported cases and deaths. It is very likely that they are way under reported now.

Likely so, which is why the trend lines are probably more revealing. While things are currently not out of line with European numbers (although on the high side), the trends indicate things WILL be much worse very soon. And that's not accounting for the under reporting you (likely correctly) point to.

Originally Posted by boatman61

Doubt 'measures' would change a thing.. easy to say, impossible to achieve...
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-27775327

Everything is impossible if we don't even try. It wasn't that long ago that coughing into your sleeve was new for Canadian society. It wasn't that long ago that wearing masks and keeping physical distance was new, and yet we've adapted (most of us anyway). Why would Indian society be any different?

Originally Posted by danstanford

Is this true? I keep hearing about the risks of re-infection but statistically it is very minor at this point from what I have seen. What bothers me is that this information is not readily available...

The info isn't readily available yet because things are changing in real time. The rate of reinfection with the original strain of SARS-CoV-2 seems to be quite low, but the new strains are changing that. Some are highly unresponsive to previous immunity. In fact, some epidemiologists have been saying some of these new strains are sufficiently different that we're really dealing with a second pandemic.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Or... Consider what is best for the planet...

That would be moving from the pragmatic towards the ideal (to some people). But yeah, I think we should keep in mind how nature "bounced back" a bit during the lockdowns, and how people started flocking to parks, long walks, riding bikes, picnicking, renewed interest in boats... and try to hang onto some of that.

Last summer there was a family of Cooper's hawks in the park behind us, and this year there's a pair of flippin foxes that regularly traipse through our yard.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Everything is impossible if we don't even try. It wasn't that long ago that coughing into your sleeve was new for Canadian society. It wasn't that long ago that wearing masks and keeping physical distance was new, and yet we've adapted (most of us anyway). Why would Indian society be any different?.

As a child growing up in the early 50's I was taught to cough or sneeze into a half fist rather than openly.. however that was in keeping with western manners.
Converting over 1 billion people into adopting western mannerisms is going to be a bigger project than you trying to influence people here to conform to your ideologies.
I never have understood the 'cough into your elbow' thing personally.. for a start your wearing a mask, handshakes have become taboo and alcohol handwash dispensers are everywhere.

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by UFO

Come on Dockhead, your a smart guy, you and I both know that they will not eradicate this virus - In case all of you forgot the world is a LOT bigger than the West. They can't even vaccinate the West in a timely manner, let alone the world and New Variants are popping up like moles, so I think your argument fallacious.


If our esteemed leaders and scientists really believe that they can eradicate this virus then we are in REAL trouble, Unless you want to take the Australian model and ban citizens from entering from certain countries and lock out the rest of the world.



So back to my original question if the vaccines are 100% successful against Death and hospitailisation and they can vaccinate those who are at risk of all ages that need it then why the push to vaccinate EVERYONE?


FYI Herd immunity can also be achieved by vaccinating those that need it and letting the healthy normal people catch it naturally - From estimates I have seen for the UK over 30% of the population has had it already.

Healthy Normal people do catch it, AND some healthy people also DIE from it, as well suffer other problems associated with the Virus.

I've NEVER heard ANY Claim as to 100% protection from Death Or Hospitalization... That IS the Misinformation that rears its ugly head to Complicate that subject.

Spreading Misinformation is well a known political partisanship technique.
Please get out of the last Administrations policies.

We can help many people, if it were not for the desperate need of some to fog the topic continually in the opposite direction.
SV Cloud Duster

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Good data are hard to gather and process. It's incredibly expensive to do a proper study, and self-reported data, or guesses about re-infection aren't very conclusive yet. With the added twist of the variants.
"Scared" isn't the right framing. If you're scared you can bug out, hide in a remote cabin in the woods, have the absolute minimum contact with other humans... and your risk from COVID will be zero.

What's required is for people to understand as much as possible about how COVID threatens them and their loved ones, AND how COVID impacts society and the economy, and make a cold, logical, pragmatic decision about what would be best for one's family AND for society at large.

The pragmatic, risk-assessment-based choice is pretty obvious, but CF has proven that some people's political or religious biases cloud or distort such decision-making.

But, is believing what is written on CF Forum the TRUTH?
Hardly Believeable.
Make your own Choice
I have...
Fully Vaccinated!
For Myself AND important to mention FOR OTHERS as Well.
My vaccine isn't going to hurt them at all.
Their NOT Being Vaccinated, potentiality harms MANY More.
SV Cloud Duster

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

That would be moving from the pragmatic towards the ideal (to some people). But yeah, I think we should keep in mind how nature "bounced back" a bit during the lockdowns, ...

I just watched the quasi-doc narrated by David Attenborough: The Year the Earth Changed. It docu(drama)ments how the Earth has responded to the reduced human footprint over the past Covid year. Certainly interesting to watch:

https://youtu.be/XswV_yqPq28

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

That would be moving from the pragmatic towards the ideal (to some people). But yeah, I think we should keep in mind how nature "bounced back" a bit during the lockdowns, and how people started flocking to parks, long walks, riding bikes, picnicking, renewed interest in boats... and try to hang onto some of that.

Last summer there was a family of Cooper's hawks in the park behind us, and this year there's a pair of flippin foxes that regularly traipse through our yard.

Foxes have become a part of city life in the UK as the small farms were bought out and hundreds of thousands of miles of hedgerows were destroyed to make way for commercial farming... decimated the wildlife that they lived on so they moved to the cities to scavage the human trash from chippies, KFC, BigMac and the like... they seem to be thriving in Brixton, Stretham etc..

[HeinSdL]

This discussion makes a refreshing change from the climate discussion though. With Covid there isn't one positive which is not immediately turned around such as "yes, but look at the trend", or "it's getting better here but there's a variant on its way", or "if you don't do it for yourself, do it for the community", etc.

With the climate there isn't one negative which isn't immediately turned around such as "it's a bit hotter but that's just the natural cycle", "Yes it's bad but technology will eventually take care of the problem", or "What difference would it make if I change my habits?".

Striking. Covid would appear to be bad and we take collective, massive action, vilifying those who do not e.g. want to be vaccinated; the climate problem is much worse and we do nothing, vilifying those who urge immediate action.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by HeinSdL

Striking. Covid would appear to be bad and we take collective, massive action, vilifying those who do not e.g. want to be vaccinated; the climate problem is much worse and we do nothing, vilifying those who urge immediate action.

Hmmm. I'm finding the climate change crisis and COVID crisis to be quite similar. At least in North America, it seems that the same set that are fighting doing anything about climate change are also most likely to think we're overreacting to COVID.

The main differences are timescale and perceived immediacy of the threat. Not doing well on COVID will have immediate penalties at election time. Right, Donald? Climate change recognition and action can be faked, delayed or blocked with little political cost.