Covid vaccination status for CF members

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Who are these countries with unused infrastructure?

Everyone is already going all out. There isn't some huge stockpile of unused vaccine production facilities.

Indeed. I think it is safe to say that every pharma plant in the world which is capable of producing covid vaccines is already busy producing them. At least I never heard of an idle plant.



I don't think there is any problem getting a license, and also technical help, to produce one or another of the many covid vaccines. Brazil's Butantan Insitute is already producing a covid vaccine developed with the Chinese; see: https://112.international/society/br...ine-60069.html.

[Copacabana]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Indeed. I think it is safe to say that every pharma plant in the world which is capable of producing covid vaccines is already busy producing them. At least I never heard of an idle plant.



I don't think there is any problem getting a license, and also technical help, to produce one or another of the many covid vaccines. Brazil's Butantan Insitute is already producing a covid vaccine developed with the Chinese; see: https://112.international/society/br...ine-60069.html.

Yes, they are making the Coronavac vaccine and they have also developed their own vaccine that is in trials and set to deliver 40 million doses in July. I just saw an article as well that they are thinking of getting veterinary pharma facilities to start producing Covid vaccines in Brazil. This makes me think there is some "unused infrastructure" that could be used to ramp up vaccine production in other countries as well.

(Edit: I replied before seeing your link, which talks about Butantan's vaccine. )

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Montanan

The ongoing Phase 3 clinical trial of Pfizer/BioNTech's coronavirus vaccine confirms its protection remains high for at least six months after the second dose, the companies said Thursday.

Protection likely lasts even longer than that, vaccine experts say, but they say having data showing good protection six months after people were vaccinated is good news.
The vaccine remains more than 91% effective against disease with any symptoms for six months, the companies said in a statement. And it appeared to be fully effective against the worrying B.1.351 variant of the virus, which is the dominant strain circulating in South Africa and which researchers feared had evolved to evade the protection of vaccines, the companies said.
"The vaccine was 100% effective against severe disease as defined by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), and 95.3% effective against severe COVID-19 as defined by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA)," Pfizer and BioNTech said in a joint statement.

Interesting walk through interview and video of Pfizer's vaccine production and modular, prefabricated formulation suites and how the lipid & mRNA is combined. 60 million doses in cold storage at the location.

Pfizer has doubled it production volume in one month now reaching 13 million doses per week by the middle of this year they expect to be at 25 million doses per week; 100 million per month.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/01/healt...-bn/index.html

Cool.

And interesting story in Der Spiegel about the development of Sputnik V:

https://www.spiegel.de/international...b-9912e7c94e48

I admire the director of the laboratory who vaccinated himself fully a year ago, before they even got through testing on lab animals. There's a man with confidence in his work!

There was a big uproar (with unfortunate geopolitical overtones) about the accelerated release of Sputnik V. But here we see that Sputnik V turns out to be a minor variation on an existing vaccine developed for a different coronavirus, so the Russian were not dealing with unknown, untested technology.

Poor countries will benefit from the growing competition among vaccine manufacturing countries for "vaccine diplomacy".

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Of course these companies should earn a reasonable profit. They manage to sell their wares to the entire world for a nice profit, then market the exact same drug for literally 10 times more in the US.

And they are able to do this because they are granted a 20 year monopoly by the US government - would you like to get the government out of this and remove the monopoly? Or is that a part of government intervention you like?



Count me in. A pharma company has it's shareholders to please and it does this by maximizing profit. Maximizing profit does not maximize the benefit to society. Free market capitalism is not the answer to all questions.





Yet they actively market their products for far less worldwide than in the US, so the incentive is still there at a much more modest markup.

The monopoly on a new drug is similar to a copyright or a patent on intellectual property, not exactly the same as government intervention. If you managed to create something nobody else has ever created shouldn’t your right to market your unique creation be protected, not forever but for awhile? The primary goal of a pharma company isn’t to maximize the benefit to society but a huge benefit to society is often a nice byproduct of a pharma companies quest for profits. The important thing isn’t their motive but rather is the resulting benefit to us all, especially if it saves our life. Free market capitalism by established, profit motivated pharma companies IS what gave us these life saving vaccines in record time.

DH has already pointed out your areas of misunderstanding regarding how drugs are marketed and the reasons for different prices so i wont repeat that. But i would like to add that long before a drug companies exclusive rights expire its not uncommon for counterfeit versions to appear and be sold at much lower prices than the original, and this obviously hurts the company that invested in and gambled to develop the drug to start with.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

The monopoly on a new drug is similar to a copyright or a patent on intellectual property, not exactly the same as government intervention. If you managed to create something nobody else has ever created shouldn’t your right to market your unique creation be protected, not forever but for awhile? The primary goal of a pharma company isn’t to maximize the benefit to society but a huge benefit to society is often a nice byproduct of a pharma companies quest for profits. The important thing isn’t their motive but rather is the resulting benefit to us all, especially if it saves our life. Free market capitalism by established, profit motivated pharma companies IS what gave us these life saving vaccines in record time.

DH has already pointed out your areas of misunderstanding regarding how drugs are marketed and the reasons for different prices so i wont repeat that. But i would like to add that long before a drug companies exclusive rights expire its not uncommon for counterfeit versions to appear and be sold at much lower prices than the original, and this obviously hurts the company that invested in and gambled to develop the drug to start with.

Are we not forgetting that Governments around the world have given BILLIONS in funding to develop these vaccines, so I am not so sure about your free market capitalism for this vaccine - That is Tax Payers money, Does the Tax payer does not get any IP rights?

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I said that I don't disagree that there are certain questionable pricing and market practices with big pharma. But that's a different conversation. And maybe not the time for that conversation just at the moment when big pharma is busy saving the world.

It's the conversation I was having with the poster. If you don't want to have it, don't comment.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Tillsbury

Drug companies have to sell at much higher prices in the US to pay for the ludicrous legal challenges and awards that are the norm over there. Same reason all medical costs are so high. The entire system is different in other countries.

Pretty simplistic to blame the lawyers and defend the pharm companies. Maybe part of the issue is treating their product like a consumer fad to hype as much as possible.
" From 2014 through 2016, various publications—from the Washington Post to Vox to MedCity News—published an eye-opening chart showing that nine of the top 10 large pharmaceutical companies (all but Roche) spent more on marketing than research and development (R&D). "

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

The monopoly on a new drug is similar to a copyright or a patent on intellectual property, not exactly the same as government intervention.

The monoply isn't similar to a patent, it is a patent. A goverenment issued patent. How you can say this isn't goverenment intervention is a mystery to me. Not all government intervention is bad - pretty simple.

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

If you managed to create something nobody else has ever created shouldn’t your right to market your unique creation be protected, not forever but for awhile? The primary goal of a pharma company isn’t to maximize the benefit to society but a huge benefit to society is often a nice byproduct of a pharma companies quest for profits. The important thing isn’t their motive but rather is the resulting benefit to us all, especially if it saves our life. Free market capitalism by established, profit motivated pharma companies IS what gave us these life saving vaccines in record time.

If it was actually free market, then I could legally purchase their products online from any country. That would remove any significant international price differential. Currently we have goverenment intervention that prohibits that in the US. Is that also an intervention you want removed?

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

DH has already pointed out your areas of misunderstanding regarding how drugs are marketed and the reasons for different prices so i wont repeat that. But i would like to add that long before a drug companies exclusive rights expire its not uncommon for counterfeit versions to appear and be sold at much lower prices than the original, and this obviously hurts the company that invested in and gambled to develop the drug to start with.

Hardly. He picked c19 vaccine pricing, which even big pharma knows they couldn't get away with gouging in the current political environment,

Pharmaceuticals in the US operate in an environment much closer to a government protected cartel than a free market. Their scientists do amazing work and the benefits to society has been obvious. That doesn't make the current system justifiable. I regularly purchase drugs while cruising in multiple countries that go for 1/10 of the US price. Not for new, cutting edge drugs, but for commonly prescribed ones. The system is pretty unhealthy.

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by Paul L

The monoply isn't similar to a patent, it is a patent. A goverenment issued patent. How you can say this isn't goverenment intervention is a mystery to me. Not all government intervention is bad - pretty simple.





If it was actually free market, then I could legally purchase their products online from any country. That would remove any significant international price differential. Currently we have goverenment intervention that prohibits that in the US. Is that also an intervention you want removed?





Hardly. He picked c19 vaccine pricing, which even big pharma knows they couldn't get away with gouging in the current political environment,



Pharmaceuticals in the US operate in an environment much closer to a government protected cartel than a free market. Their scientists do amazing work and the benefits to society has been obvious. That doesn't make the current system justifiable. I regularly purchase drugs while cruising in multiple countries that go for 1/10 of the US price. Not for new, cutting edge drugs, but for commonly prescribed ones. The system is pretty unhealthy.

Of course governments are involved in enforcing all kinds of laws but thats not what is commonly considered to be intervention. Everybody knows the law in advance and its the governments job to make sure the law is not violated.

Im not arguing that big pharma companies are virtuous or that the way drugs are marketed around the world couldn’t be improved upon, just that without an adequate financial incentive many of the life prolonging drugs we all now take for granted wouldn’t exist and lots of yours and my neighbors (maybe even you or I) would now be dead as a result. I guess its natural to want to purchase the objects we desire for less money so we can keep more of our hard earned dollars in our own pockets, especially when we see it selling for less elsewhere. I used to fly into Mumbai so am familiar with really cheap drug prices, and just down the street you could buy a $17 dvd of the latest movie for $1. But the hard truth is that if those drugs were priced at the Mumbai level all around the world and the big pharma companies knew thats how it would be in advance, the drug wouldn’t even exist and the comfort it provides to ill people wouldn’t be available to them at ANY price. The same is true for the movie. So, as imperfect and unfair as capitalism may sometimes seem, its the only system that has a built in motivation that gets people to push themselves to come up with the better mousetrap. Call it greed if you wish, but it works reliably and we all benefit from it.

If you really think big pharma companies are making “too much” profit, then it sounds to me like you’ve just identified a great investment opportunity for yourself. If you feel strongly about this, buy some of their stock which will put yourself in a position where you can benefit from their so called greed, and then use your financial gains to purchase the ‘overpriced’ drugs you or your loved ones need, or if you dont want to personally profit from them, donate that money to provide drugs for those who cant afford to buy them. Also, you should always remember that you are free to protest their high prices by refusing to purchase their products. No one is forcing you to support their greed. Of course that might mean you have to get accustomed to living with a difficult medical condition or it might mean you don’t live as long, but ultimately its your choice whether you buy these ‘overpriced’ drugs or not. Nobody is forcing any of us to participate in this system you think is so unfair. That doesnt mean there arent abuses that should be corrected or reforms that should occur, but if capitalism is removed from the drug developing process, we will all miss out on future medical advances that will either be delayed or never happen.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Copacabana

That is a blanket statement that is not always the case. Many developing countries have public health systems that do a good job with vaccine distribution. Brazil can vaccinate 10 million people a day. The problem is we simply don't have the vaccines in hand to do it (thanks to an inept, science-denying president, but that's another issue...). At the moment, there simply are not enough vaccines to go around.

Do they have the freezers to handle the ultra cold storage required? This was an issue in the US...wouldn't be surprised if Brazil has fewer. Of course, Brazil is more 2nd world (not 3rd world) and only one country out of a couple hundred.

Who was this inept science denying president? You aren't suggesting the one who launched "warp speed" which led to the development of 3 highly effective vaccines in less than 1/10th the time of the fastest vaccine development ever? If you are speaking of the president I'm thinking of, you can fault him for many things but vaccine development isn't one of them.

[Coquina]

Originally Posted by sailormed

From reading and posting on this forum I get the impression that many on this forum have roughly half a century behind them.

This is my case as well and where I live the government started a vaccination campaign about 2 weeks ago. Today 25 jan my wife and I got our first shot of the Pfizer vaccin. But my wife’s sister in law lives in Seattle and she got her first shot last week on Friday 22 jan.

Just out of curiosity, how many of the members of this forum are vaccinated? It seems that there is actually a huge campaign ongoing in the USA to get a maximum number of persons vaccinated.

Got my 2nd shot yesterday
My mother had essentially 0 reaction to either shot.
I got a sore arm out of each one.
My wife got sick enough from shot number 2 to take the next day off of work, she felt bad for about 24 hours.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

... Who was this inept science denying president? ...

Brazil's president is Jair Messias Bolsonaro.

[Copacabana]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Do they have the freezers to handle the ultra cold storage required? This was an issue in the US...wouldn't be surprised if Brazil has fewer. Of course, Brazil is more 2nd world (not 3rd world) and only one country out of a couple hundred.

Who was this inept science denying president? You aren't suggesting the one who launched "warp speed" which led to the development of 3 highly effective vaccines in less than 1/10th the time of the fastest vaccine development ever? If you are speaking of the president I'm thinking of, you can fault him for many things but vaccine development isn't one of them.

I don't know if the public health system has these special freezers, but other than the two mRNA vaccines, a regular freezer is fine (and that they have).

Sorry if I wasn't clear. The inept president I'm referring to is the current president of Brazil. His handling of the pandemic in Brazil has been a disaster from day one...

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Do they have the freezers to handle the ultra cold storage required? This was an issue in the US...wouldn't be surprised if Brazil has fewer. Of course, Brazil is more 2nd world (not 3rd world) and only one country out of a couple hundred.

Who was this inept science denying president? You aren't suggesting the one who launched "warp speed" which led to the development of 3 highly effective vaccines in less than 1/10th the time of the fastest vaccine development ever? If you are speaking of the president I'm thinking of, you can fault him for many things but vaccine development isn't one of them.

He's talking about Bolsonaro in Brazil, and the comment is fair. We can debate about how bad the pandemic response was in the U.S. (in my opinion not quite as bad as it might have seemed at times), but there is certainly no comparison to how the pandemic unfolded in Brazil.



As to our own Bolsonaro -- I agree with you. Operation Warp Speed was brilliant, unbelievable. I don't think any politician deserves any huge credit for that, but the very worst you can say about the politicians in regard to OWS, is that they didn't get in the way -- often the best thing a politician can do

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by UFO

Are we not forgetting that Governments around the world have given BILLIONS in funding to develop these vaccines, so I am not so sure about your free market capitalism for this vaccine - That is Tax Payers money, Does the Tax payer does not get any IP rights?

Pfizer didn't take any R&D funding, and others were only partially funded by OWS, and the purpose of the funding was to accelerate the development, which acceleration will save trillions of dollars of GDP. That's what the taxpayer gets out of the deal; besides that, the vaccines are being sold cheap, so the taxpayer is getting a great deal for his money, without needing to mess with the companies' IP rights.