Covid vaccination status for CF members

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Its a copy and paste from my news page, unfortunately I cannot gets links from there..
However it is reported here by reddit..
https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus...id_deaths_are/

reddit has yanked it:

Sorry, this post has been removed by the moderators of r/CoronavirusUK.
Moderators remove posts from feeds for a variety of reasons, including keeping communities safe, civil, and true to their purpose.

... suggesting that they believe that it's not factually correct. (or - insert conspiracy theory here -)

The same general claim was made of how they count US COVID deaths. Once they were looked at in detail, the allegations of widespread falsification or miscounting didn't stand up. Fun fact: no one has ever died of COVID-19. They die from the body's reaction to it, the biological warfare between the virus and the body's defenses, and the resulting symptoms, stress and damage. So, the cause of death might be listed as heart attack, caused by the stress of viral pneumonia, and it so happens that the particular virus involved is SARS-Cov2. So...COVID death or not? And so on.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

reddit has yanked it:

... suggesting that they believe that it's not factually correct. (or - insert conspiracy theory here -)

The same general claim was made of how they count US COVID deaths. Once they were looked at in detail, the allegations of widespread falsification or miscounting didn't stand up. Fun fact: no one has ever died of COVID-19. They die from the body's reaction to it, the biological warfare between the virus and the body's defenses, and the resulting symptoms, stress and damage. So, the cause of death might be listed as heart attack, caused by the stress of viral pneumonia, and it so happens that the particular virus involved is SARS-Cov2. So...COVID death or not? And so on.

This constant effort to downplay, or outright lie, about the number of Covid-19 deaths is just plain sad. We've been over and over this many times here. Anyone who actually wants real information can read how cause of death is assigned. It's been posted here a few times, and is easily available to anyone cares to look.

The approach has not changed with this pandemic. No one was questioning the approach until a pandemic became political. As I said ... sad.

[GordMay]

According to figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS)*, 23 per cent of Covid deaths registered are now people who have died 'with' the disease rather than 'from' an infection and ensuing illness.

This means that the person who has died will have tested positive, but that the disease was not ultimately recorded as the victim's primary cause of death.
Put another way, this means the disease was not the primary cause of death recorded on death certificates, despite the person who died testing positive for Covid.

Is that the impression you (Phil) intended to convey with your Reddit quote?

[danstanford]

Originally Posted by GordMay

According to figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS)*, 23 per cent of Covid deaths registered are now people who have died 'with' the disease rather than 'from' an infection and ensuing illness.

This means that the person who has died will have tested positive, but that the disease was not ultimately recorded as the victim's primary cause of death.
Put another way, this means the disease was not the primary cause of death recorded on death certificates, despite the person who died testing positive for Covid.

Is that the impression you (Phil) intended to convey with your Reddit quote?

Sorry Gord, I have read your post twice and am not sure what you are saying about these 23%. Are you saying that they are counted in the stats as Covid deaths or are not?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by GordMay

According to figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS)*, 23 per cent of Covid deaths registered are now people who have died 'with' the disease rather than 'from' an infection and ensuing illness.

This means that the person who has died will have tested positive, but that the disease was not ultimately recorded as the victim's primary cause of death.
Put another way, this means the disease was not the primary cause of death recorded on death certificates, despite the person who died testing positive for Covid.

Is that the impression you (Phil) intended to convey with your Reddit quote?

It was not a reddit quote it's was a copy and paste from another news source around midday..
Tried finding it again but to far back as loads of other stuff has appeared so did a search and the reddit article popped up so pasted you the link..
Did not read it because they want you to download their app to do that and I don't want it.
I am not trying to convey any impression, just posting what I thought may be of interest..
I have no agenda in spite of people trying to thrust one on me..

[Montanan]

Covid Booster Vaccines - Expected to be available this Fall.

Moderna hopes to have a booster shot for its two-dose Covid vaccine available in the fall.
“I want to make sure there are boost vaccines available in the fall so that we protect people as we go into the next fall and winter season in the U.S.,”

Last month, the National Institutes of Health began testing a variety of offerings from Moderna to use as a third shot designed to boost immunity protection as concern grows about emerging variants — including the one first discovered in South Africa, also known as the B.1.351 variant.

The Food and Drug Administration’s approach to authorizing modified Covid vaccines is similar to that of annual flu vaccines, meaning they could be cleared for emergency use without lengthy clinical trials.
Massachusetts-based Moderna hopes to submit data to regulators within a few months, “Our goal is to work really hard to get this ready before the fall,”

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/14/covi...-says-ceo.html

[Thumbs Up]

Originally Posted by GordMay

According to figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS)*, 23 per cent of Covid deaths registered are now people who have died 'with' the disease rather than 'from' an infection and ensuing illness.

This means that the person who has died will have tested positive, but that the disease was not ultimately recorded as the victim's primary cause of death.
Put another way, this means the disease was not the primary cause of death recorded on death certificates, despite the person who died testing positive for Covid.

Is that the impression you (Phil) intended to convey with your Reddit quote?

I am finding that 23% UK figure very interesting considering this:

U.S. excess deaths rose nearly 23 percent in 2020, study finds

https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0405175612.htm

[Montanan]

Vaccination - employer mandates, USA law. Published opinion.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/op...?ocid=msedgntp

Private employers do have the right to require their workers to take the COVID-19 vaccine, subject to a handful of legally protected exceptions for disabilities and religious beliefs. That was the Dec. 16 guidance from the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, in keeping with more than a century of court rulings — dating to a 1905 Massachusetts case involving mandatory smallpox vaccinations in which the U.S. Supreme Court upheld vaccine laws that were “reasonably required for the safety of the public” while noting that individual liberty was not absolute. The California Supreme Court and Legislature have also upheld private employers’ right to make workers follow their edicts so long as they don’t constitute discrimination involving race, national origin, sex, age, disability, marital status, sexual orientation or religion.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

This constant effort to downplay, or outright lie, about the number of Covid-19 deaths is just plain sad. We've been over and over this many times here. Anyone who actually wants real information can read how cause of death is assigned. It's been posted here a few times, and is easily available to anyone cares to look.

The approach has not changed with this pandemic. No one was questioning the approach until a pandemic became political. As I said ... sad.

There is a very simple way to check this, for goodness sake. It's the demographic measure of excess mortality.

We don't have exact numbers in any case -- this is an impossible task. But excess mortality will tell you better than anything what the population has been through.

In most developed countries, 2020 was 2x or 3x a bad flu year, in terms of excess death. In some countries much less than that.

So what does that mean? Well, on the whole it's somewhere in the middle between a bad flu year, and armageddon, neither that, nor that. Notwithstanding different efforts to portray it as either that or that.

A great source of data: https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

There is a very simple way to check this, for goodness sake. It's the demographic measure of excess mortality.

We don't have exact numbers in any case -- this is an impossible task. But excess mortality will tell you better than anything what the population has been through.

In most developed countries, 2020 was 2x or 3x a bad flu year, in terms of excess death. In some countries much less than that.

So what does that mean? Well, on the whole it's somewhere in the middle between a bad flu year, and armageddon, neither that, nor that. Notwithstanding different efforts to portray it as either that or that.

A great source of data: https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid

Agreed that excess mortality is a good 20,000 ft view of overall impact of something. But a key consideration is the chosen baseline beyond which you measure the "excess". The usual practice is to take the part of the year of interest, and compare it with the same period of prior years, or an average of for example the last 5 years. So, in comparison to years past, 2020 would give a value for excess deaths I will call ED-2020. And it's calculated by

ED-2020 = [all deaths in 2020] - [average of all deaths over the last 5 years]

Here's the problem with that: 2020 was not a normal year! Restrictions, lockdowns, travel bans, stay-at-home orders all had effect, and one of the main net effects is that deaths from many causes were significantly reduced - road accidents, workplace accidents, air pollution, deaths from flu, pneumonia and other contagions besides COVID, etc (and some types of death may have increased, but so far these are insignificant in the ED calculation). So the real baseline for 2020 - deaths from anything other than COVID - is markedly lower in most places.

So the real excess deaths for 2020 that can reasonably be attributed to COVID (or crisis effects) are:

ED-2020 = [all deaths in 2020] - [average of all deaths over the last 5 years] + [amount by which the 2020 deaths baseline, from any cause except COVID, is lower than the average baseline of prior years]

This will become obvious once we can look at the stats for all the different causes of deaths in 2020, and observe how many are significantly below the values recorded in past years.


So, for many countries, COVID deaths have actually been more than 2x or 3x a bad flu year.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Agreed that excess mortality is a good 20,000 ft view of overall impact of something. But a key consideration is the chosen baseline beyond which you measure the "excess". The usual practice is to take the part of the year of interest, and compare it with the same period of prior years, or an average of for example the last 5 years. So, in comparison to years past, 2020 would give a value for excess deaths I will call ED-2020. And it's calculated by

ED-2020 = [all deaths in 2020] - [average of all deaths over the last 5 years]

Here's the problem with that: 2020 was not a normal year! Restrictions, lockdowns, travel bans, stay-at-home orders all had effect, and one of the main net effects is that deaths from many causes were significantly reduced - road accidents, workplace accidents, air pollution, deaths from flu, pneumonia and other contagions besides COVID, etc (and some types of death may have increased, but so far these are insignificant in the ED calculation). So the real baseline for 2020 - deaths from anything other than COVID - is markedly lower in most places.

So the real excess deaths for 2020 that can reasonably be attributed to COVID (or crisis effects) are:

ED-2020 = [all deaths in 2020] - [average of all deaths over the last 5 years] + [amount by which the 2020 deaths baseline, for any cause except COVID, is lower than the average baseline of prior years]

This will become obvious once we can look at the stats for all the different causes of deaths in 2020, and observe how many are significantly below the values recorded in past years.

So, for many countries, COVID deaths have actually been more than 2x or 3x a bad flu year.

Well, sure, but we're just not going to get any more precise than that. There's a lot of noise in the data -- reduced traffic deaths, increased suicides, increased deaths due to delayed treatment for non-COVID diseases, reduced flu deaths -- it's messy.

UK had excess deaths of 2.5x or so greater than a bad flu year. Sweden looks like no excess deaths. U.S. looks like 2x a bad flu year. Finland looks like no excess deaths. That's about as good a picture as we will get. COVID kills -- you can't deny that. It is sure as hell not nothing. But it's not as bad as the Spanish Flu was. It's worse most places than a normal flu. That's really about all you can say.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Well, sure, but we're just not going to get any more precise than that. There's a lot of noise in the data -- reduced traffic deaths, increased suicides, increased deaths due to delayed treatment for non-COVID diseases, reduced flu deaths -- it's messy.

It cleans up reasonably with some meaningful simplification. Eg all deaths minus deaths from anything but COVID, over a given time period, is an informative if conservative estimate of the COVID toll.

[DomPerignon]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

There is a very simple way to check this, for goodness sake. It's the demographic measure of excess mortality.

We don't have exact numbers in any case -- this is an impossible task. But excess mortality will tell you better than anything what the population has been through.

In most developed countries, 2020 was 2x or 3x a bad flu year, in terms of excess death. In some countries much less than that.

So what does that mean? Well, on the whole it's somewhere in the middle between a bad flu year, and armageddon, neither that, nor that. Notwithstanding different efforts to portray it as either that or that.

A great source of data: https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid

It depends if you believe it’s a pandemic or a plandemic.
If you see it as a plandemic ( all planned ahead ) then all those numbers are meaningless.

[Montanan]

The first study to directly compare immune reactions between Pfizer's and AstraZeneca's COVID-19 vaccines has found similarly strong antibody responses in over 80-year-olds after a first dose of either shot. The study also found, however, that a critical component of the immune system known as T cells showed a more enhanced response in those who got the AstraZeneca vaccine than in those who got the Pfizer one - a finding scientists behind the study called worthy of more investigation.

https://torontosun.com/news/world/bo...says-u-k-study

[Montanan]

This bit of news remains to be confirmed by alternative sources, but if the EU discontinues the purchase and / or use of J&J and AZ vaccines then the supply will be slowed considerably and the EU pandemic will drag out even further.

"The EU Commission has decided not to renew COVID-19 vaccine contracts next year with companies such as Astrazeneca and Johnson & Johnson (J&J), Italian daily La Stampa reported on Wednesday citing a source from the Italian Health Ministry.

"The European Commission, in agreement with the leaders of many (EU) countries, has decided that the contracts with the companies that produce (viral vector) vaccines that are valid for the current year will not be renewed at their expiry," the newspaper reported.

It added that Brussels would rather focus on COVID-19 vaccines using messenger RNA (mRNA) technology, such as Pfizer's and Moderna's."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...?ocid=msedgntp