Covid vaccine after having covid

[CatNewBee]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pyPjAfNNA-U

Maybe you want some lectures on the spike proteines...

[Shanachie]

You folks do realize how pathetic it is for people with backgrounds in high school biology to argue Ph.D-level science?


There is a reason Dr. Fauci is where he is. He has spent his life studying pandemics and epidemics. You do not close that gap by searching Youtube and foxnews.com or attempting to read scientific papers with a 10th-grade comprehension level.


There is closure to this debate, though.


If you decide not to get vaccinated, you are gambling your health and possibly your life with your opinion. The Delta variant is coming your way soon.



If you protect yourself with masks or live the life of a hermit, you may escape. But if you live your life normally, you have a good chance of falling ill and discovering the high price of playing Internet troll.


The folks who assaulted Congress on Jan. 6 initially had a lot of fun on the Internet. Then they took it a step or two too far, and hundreds of them wound up arrested, wondering why reality had intruded on their fun.



Good luck to you.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Shanachie

If you decide not to get vaccinated, you are gambling your health and possibly your life with your opinion. The Delta variant is coming your way soon.

If you protect yourself with masks or live the life of a hermit, you may escape. But if you live your life normally, you have a good chance of falling ill and discovering the high price of playing Internet troll.

Word.

Seriously, Delta makes up 99% of the hospitalized cases now in the UK... and their vaccination rate is - first shot: 63%, both shots: 45%.

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by Shanachie

You folks do realize how pathetic it is for people with backgrounds in high school biology to argue Ph.D-level science?


There is a reason Dr. Fauci is where he is. He has spent his life studying pandemics and epidemics. You do not close that gap by searching Youtube and foxnews.com or attempting to read scientific papers with a 10th-grade comprehension level.


There is closure to this debate, though.


If you decide not to get vaccinated, you are gambling your health and possibly your life with your opinion. The Delta variant is coming your way soon.



If you protect yourself with masks or live the life of a hermit, you may escape. But if you live your life normally, you have a good chance of falling ill and discovering the high price of playing Internet troll.


The folks who assaulted Congress on Jan. 6 initially had a lot of fun on the Internet. Then they took it a step or two too far, and hundreds of them wound up arrested, wondering why reality had intruded on their fun.



Good luck to you.

Well Fauci is part of the problem, as it seems to surface step by step. He and his scientific colleagues are responsible for the virus creation and the mess the outbreak has caused. They financed the research on gain of function (basically creating human contagious viruses from animal viruses by gen manipulations) in China after this type of research was stopped in the USA by the Obama administration.

The folks in the congress have been "peaceful protesters" similar to the BLM protesters, in contrast to the BLM, they were held accountable, and they have not caused 3 million deaths worldwide.

So I hope Dr. Faucy will be one day in a place where he belongs, and this is not where he currently is. If he had come forward right from the beginning, instead of covering up - many lives could have been saved.

[S/V Adeline]

Originally Posted by GreenWave

In the US, there was/is no required doctor consultation. Yes - you do have to sign something which is mostly about acknowledging the side affects that are possible. We have lawyers to thank for that reality.



I am shaking my head that anyone possibly thinks things like PCR tests and 5g are here to monitor us and control us.

The paperwork i was required to sign stated point blank the vaccine was not a cure. It did not prevent infection, it did not prevent you from becoming a carrier/spreader, etc. It stated it prevented *most* serious life threatening effects of the virus...4 or 5 pages long requiring multiple signatures and initials. Only half was the legal mumbo-jumbo about it being experimental and not authorized for standard usage.

Edit: And after the papers were signed, there was a consultation...15min after the shot an evaluation before being released.
Not sure why you didn't get the full package

[NPCampbell]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

The spike proteins produced by vaccination (and also from infection) are short-lived. So, it's my takeaway that the PAH reaction would develop almost immediately... or not at all. The PAH response as described is not some ticking time-bomb that would develop months after the vaccination/infection. Enough people were part of early trials that if PAH or similar adverse reactions were occurring, immediately or delayed, in significant numbers, we would likely know by now.

Originally Posted by Greg K

Source?

My understanding of the lifecycle of the mRNA is:

1. mRNA is injected.
2. mRNA is uptaken by primarily dendritic cells (immune system related).
3. Inside the cells cytoplasm, the mRNA bonds with a ribosome.
4. The cell then behaves like the protein factory that it is and produces the spike protein.
5. RNases within the cytosol nearly instantly break down the RNA+ribosome at that point so that it can create other proteins as needed.
6. That protein is presented on the surface of the cell. It is not free floating and has no method of reproducing at this point.
7. The cell gets recognized by the immune system as abnormal due to the spike proteins on the surface and is eliminated using the normal immune system processes.
8. The cell is broken down like all other bad pathogens.

The mRNA experiences an exponential decay with a typical half life of 10 hours. For all practical purposes all mRNA is gone within 24 hours. This process must be relatively fast as this is your bodies method of making it's own proteins.

How fast does RNA degrade?
Decay rates of human mRNAs

[Creedence]

This convo is progressing nicely. My money says we’ll reach a consensus soon.... Only as long as everyone argues harder in the sailboat forum. I’m pretty certain there are still a lot of people (Globally) on the fence here.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by NPCampbell

My understanding of the lifecycle of the mRNA is:...

Thanks. You have more patience than I do, with someone who seems to claim understanding of the science, but apparently can't grasp, even from links they posted, that the highlighted potential harm is caused by the presence of the spike protein. Which in the case of COVID vaccines, is cleared from the body relatively quickly.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Greg K

Mike, you don't know me. Pretending that you do, and making assumptions about what my perspective may be or what you think I get excited about detracts from this conversation.

You're correct. The only thing I know of you is how you present here. If you believe I have an inaccurate perspective, then consider the words and ideas you use.

Originally Posted by Greg K

Still, I do agree with you that this is only one, early insight. I would not refer to it as speculation, however. It may indeed lead nowhere and, of course, I hope that is the case, but we can not ignore it altogether, especially if cardiovascular damage in younger people starts showing up at much higher rates than expected.

I agree, but as I keep saying, without further developments, this paper on its own is not very consequential.

I don't dismiss the paper, btw. It seems well worthy of follow up. But this is based on a minimal understanding of the research. As Shanachie rightly points out, it's rather laughable that we're even having these discussions. If there have not been follow-up studies, I suggest the people who know far more than any of us have deemed the work ... inconsequential.

[GordMay]

Adverse Effects of Vaccines: Evidence and Causality
Evaluating Biological Mechanisms of Adverse Events:

“Charged with reporting on biological mechanisms, the committee reviewed evidence presented in case reports/clinical write-ups, laboratory tests, and animal models. Based on the array of adverse events and types of vaccines being reviewed, the committee compiled a list of mechanisms it deemed most likely to contribute to the development of adverse events after vaccination ...”
“Increased Cytokines”
“... Although the committee is not aware of reports of full-blown cytokine storm following administration of any of the vaccines reviewed, more subtle imbalances of proinflammatory and anti-inflammatory cytokines may occur following immunization against rubella, human papillomavirus, or hepatitis B (Albarran et al., 2005; Garcia-Pineres et al., 2007; Pukhalsky et al., 2003). Moreover, it is possible that the unique immunogenetic makeup of an individual might predispose that individual to an exaggerated cytokine imbalance following immune stimulation such as microbial infection or vaccine administration.
Adverse Events on Our List Thought to Be Due to Increased Cytokines
In review of the relevant literature related to the vaccine and AE combinations considered by the committee, no evidence that directly or indirectly supports the oversecretion of cytokines as an operative mechanism was found ...”

More ➥ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK190017/

[Greg K]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Word.

Seriously, Delta makes up 99% of the hospitalized cases now in the UK... and their vaccination rate is - first shot: 63%, both shots: 45%.

That's an interesting scaremongering article about the Delta variant you posted. Did you read it and think about critically? I wonder.

So, just for the fun of it, let's break it down by the numbers quoted.

From Feb 1 to June 14, 2021 53,163 total infections
The breakdown of the total infections according to vaccination status is:
7.7% of that total who got infected were vaccinated
66.8% of that total who got infected were unvaccinated

Among those 53,163 infected there were 73 deaths
34 deaths were amongst the unvaccinated
11 deaths in those with only one dose of the vaccine
26 deaths in those with 2 doses of the vaccine
2 deaths with unknown vaccination status

And here's the question for you and others who hopefully have the basic math skills to do the calculations: Who had the significantly better survival rate out of that total infected group of 53,163 .... the unvaccinated or the fully vaccinated and the partially vaccinated combined?

What do the results suggest regarding the efficacy of the vaccine compared to natural immunity in terms of surviving the Delta variant?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...75000-phe-data

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Greg K

Among those 53,163 infected there were 73 deaths
34 deaths were amongst the unvaccinated
11 deaths in those with only one dose of the vaccine
26 deaths in those with 2 doses of the vaccine
2 deaths with unknown vaccination status

And here's the question for you and others who hopefully have the basic math skills to do the calculations: Who had the significantly better survival rate out of that total infected group of 53,163 .... the unvaccinated or the fully vaccinated and the partially vaccinated combined?

What do the results suggest regarding the efficacy of the vaccine compared to natural immunity in terms of surviving the Delta variant?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...75000-phe-data

Those numbers of dead are small enough to warrant a case-by-case examination; generalizing from such a small sample set, without further information, could be misleading.

The final part of that section is:

... only 7.7% of the 53,163 Delta infections in the same period among those with known vaccination status occurred in people who had received both Covid jabs at least 14 days before, compared with 66.8% in unvaccinated people.

... this is from a large enough sample size (7.7% and 66.8% of 53,163) that I would in this case feel comfortable generalizing that being vaccinated gives the vast majority of people a better outcome if they contract the Delta variant.

And my point in raising that article was to show what a first-world group of nations is experiencing with the Delta variant. Even with their somewhat decent vaccination rates, they have deferred some opening measures. Heads-up people; maybe we're not as over this as we'd hoped.

[bensolomon]

I can add my real life experience to this discussion. I am a pulmonary and critical care physician in the county trauma center just outside of Philadelphia, pennsylvania. Prior to isolation measures and vaccination we were putting five people a day on life support and we're getting overrun with cases. Isolation and social distancing and mask wearing certainly helped the slope of the increase but we shut down for all other disease states that weren't emergent because we were over-run with covid. We started getting vaccinated as healthcare providers in December of 2020 and then we started offering vaccinations countywide. I was also one of the people administering vaccines when I wasn't working. We saw a sharp decline in cases once we started vaccinating heavily. 2 days ago, we celebrated zero cases of covid-19 in our institution.

This reduction in disease parallels our vaccination administration. There is no doubt that covid-19 has serious long-term sequelae such as cardiomyopathy, cognitive dysfunction, prolonged weakness, lung disease resulting in breathlessness that is persistent, and the usual things like loss of taste and smell. I have taken care of some patients that have had severe eye damage as a result of covid-19.

Although we anticipate on going infection, we have clearly seen a reduction in death and utilization of critical care resources for covid-19 patients that have been vaccinated. Vaccination does and will continue to save lives, and has a far less complication rate than having the disease itself.

I can't speak for any of our European or Asian mariner brothers and sisters, but in the United States we have been heavily vaccinated against polio, measles, mumps, rubella, varicella zoster ( shingles), streptococcus pneumonia, tetanus, smallpox, influenza, meningitis, and some of us, myself included, required rabies vaccination. We have the privilege and opportunity to debate ongoing vaccination strategies because we are alive and healthy due to prior vaccinations.

Scientific debate is fantastic and intellectually stimulating. It is certainly how we progress on all fronts. It doesn't necessarily matter how we got to this point in time, it does however matter how he respond to the pandemic at hand. Vaccination is a proven strategy for saving lives.

[Greg K]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

... this is from a large enough sample size (7.7% and 66.8% of 53,163) that I would in this case feel comfortable generalizing that being vaccinated gives the vast majority of people a better outcome if they contract the Delta variant.
.

Is "survival " not an outcome?

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Greg K

Is "survival " not an outcome?

Do you have a point or criticism you'd like to make? Cos the above seems like trolling.