Covid vaccine after having covid

[Montanan]

Covid-19's potential effects on the brain
A United Kingdom study found that some people who have been infected with Covid-19 experienced loss of gray matter in the brain, especially in areas affecting smell and taste.
The researchers, who are from the University of Oxford and the Imperial College, compared brain scans of 782 people who have been volunteering as part of a larger study and who had MRIs three years apart -- before and after the pandemic.


The researchers noted that it was hard to tease out whether the impact on smell and taste were a symptom of the virus' infection or because of the potential pathway of infection.


"Here, we studied the effects of the disease in the brain using multimodal data from 782 participants from the UK Biobank COVID-19 re-imaging study, with 394 participants having tested positive for SARSCoV-2 infection between their two scans. We used structural and functional brain scans from
before and after infection, to compare longitudinal brain changes between these 394 COVID19 patients and 388 controls who were matched for age, sex, ethnicity and interval between scans. We identified significant effects of COVID-19 in the brain with a loss of grey matter in the left parahippocampal gyrus, the left lateral orbitofrontal cortex and the left insula. When looking over the entire cortical surface, these results extended to the anterior cingulate cortex, supramarginal gyrus and temporal pole

Our findings thus consistently relate to loss of grey matter in limbic cortical areas directly linked to the primary olfactory and gustatory system. Unlike in post hoc disease studies, the availability of preinfection imaging data helps avoid the danger of pre-existing risk factors or clinical conditions being mis-interpreted as disease effects. Since a possible entry point of the virus to the central nervous system might be via the olfactory mucosa and the olfactory bulb, these brain imaging results might be the in vivo hallmark of the spread of the disease (or the virus itself) via olfactory and gustatory pathways."

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...690v1.full.pdf

[Greg K]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

As Shanachie rightly points out, it's rather laughable that we're even having these discussions. If there have not been follow-up studies, I suggest the people who know far more than any of us have deemed the work ... inconsequential.

I do not share Shanachie's and your sentiments, and I believe history has time and again proven the folly of such unquestioning attitudes towards "expert" authority. An educated, intelligent public is the best defense against the tyranny of experts.

Perhaps reading or rereading Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance will bring back your and Shanachie's faith in the capability of ordinary people to understand and accomplish extraordinary things.

Failing all that, I suggest you two leave your boats unattended in some place like Mexico or Trinidad for an extensive, unsupervised refit by the refit experts there.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Greg K

I do not share Shanachie's and your sentiments, and I believe history has time and again proven the folly of such unquestioning attitudes towards "expert" authority. An educated, intelligent public is the best defense against the tyranny of experts.

Perhaps reading or rereading Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance will bring back your and Shanachie's faith in the capability of ordinary people to understand and accomplish extraordinary things.

Failing all that, I suggest you two leave your boats unattended in some place like Mexico or Trinidad for an extensive, unsupervised refit by the refit experts there.

I assume you bring the same sentiments to your air travel or brain surgery. I'm sure the pilot or neural surgeon can benefit from your "motorcycle maintenance" know how .

People think a little Googling makes them on par with actual experts in a given field. It doesn't. And one clear mark of an educated, intelligent person is knowing this simple fact.

[Greg K]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Do you have a point or criticism you'd like to make? Cos the above seems like trolling.

My point is clear. It is this:

Examining the data from the article you posted one cannot state that " being vaccinated gives the vast majority of people a better outcome if they contract the Delta variant" unless you DO NOT consider surviving the infection as an outcome.

There is no other way to reach that conclusion if you do the math.

The best you can say about the data from that article is that the vaccinated have a much lower incidence of infection. Once infected, it is abundantly clear that the unvaccinated had a significantly much higher rate of survival.

34 deaths out of about 35,600 unvaccinated compared to 26 deaths out of approximately 4100 fully vaccinated. Not particularly small numbers to spot a trend and raise some eyebrows, I would say.

[Shanachie]

To Greg K:


Ha ha ha. Really? Your philisophical touchstone is Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, a pop psychology book from the 1970s?


I thought it had deep insights when I was 19 years old and rode a motorcycle. Then I grew up and expanded my reading beyond the shelves of the local department stores.



For the first time, the gibberish you have been writing makes sense.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Greg K

The best you can say about the data from that article is that the vaccinated have a much lower incidence of infection.

Thank you for clarifying. I think the above is pretty significant, yes. If you don't get infected, you're less likely to die from COVID.

Once infected, it is abundantly clear that the unvaccinated had a significantly much higher rate of survival.

34 deaths out of about 35,600 unvaccinated compared to 37 deaths out of approximately 4100 fully vaccinated. Not particularly small numbers to spot a trend and raise some eyebrows, I would say.

34 and 37 are so small that they are almost "noise" in the data. Being so small, it would be easy to review each of those cases to see the age distribution, comorbidities etc. which as you know has a great bearing on the CFR. Eg if the 37 deaths among the fully vaccinated were predominantly people with comorbidities that made their health more precarious.

I think we need much more data before we can say with any certainty that the vaccines somehow make people more likely to die if infected. It certainly seems counterintuitive.

[Greg K]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I assume you bring the same sentiments to your air travel or brain surgery. I'm sure the pilot or neural surgeon can benefit from your "motorcycle maintenance" know how .

People think a little Googling makes them on par with actual experts in a given field. It doesn't. And one clear mark of an educated, intelligent person is knowing this simple fact.

And I suppose that equally I might assume that you were good with the FAA and Boeing's explanation that it was pilot error that brought down both of those Max 727s and would have had no issue in continuing to fly on those models prior to them being grounded.

Or that you would agree to brain surgery without getting a second or third opinion and doing some fairly extensive research yourself.

Whatever. It's a free world. Still.

[Greg K]

Originally Posted by Shanachie

To Greg K:


Ha ha ha. Really? Your philisophical touchstone is Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, a pop psychology book from the 1970s?


I thought it had deep insights when I was 19 years old and rode a motorcycle. Then I grew up and expanded my reading beyond the shelves of the local department stores.



For the first time, the gibberish you have been writing makes sense.

My philosophical touchstone? That's funny. In all my years, and there are many, you are the first person to try to insult me for referencing this book in a discussion.

I suppose guys don't fix their own bikes any more. Some never did, obviously, even when Pirsig wrote that.

Did you know that he eventually bought a Westsail 32 and became a cruiser. He wrote a wonderful essay on cruising which all newbies could benefit from. https://www.original.moq.org/forum/P...singblues.html

[Greg K]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Thank you for clarifying. I think the above is pretty significant, yes. If you don't get infected, you're less likely to die from COVID.


34 and 37 are so small that they are almost "noise" in the data. Being so small, it would be easy to review each of those cases to see the age distribution, comorbidities etc. which as you know has a great bearing on the CFR. Eg if the 37 deaths among the fully vaccinated were predominantly people with comorbidities that made their health more precarious.

I think we need much more data before we can say with any certainty that the vaccines somehow make people more likely to die if infected. It certainly seems counterintuitive.

Unless you're vaccinated, of course.

So, how small is so small? Noise in the data you say. Can we put a number on it? Let's try, shall we?

With 34 fatalities, the percentage for the number of fatalities for the some 35,000 unvaccinated who became infected is about 0.00095%. For the some 4,100 vaccinated with 37 fatalities, it is an order of magnitude higher at around 0.009.

As much as I criticize the mainstreet media, I do have to admit that they probably got their heading for that article right.

Figures Show Delta is More Transmissible and Resistant to Vaccine.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Greg K

So, how small is so small? Noise in the data you say. Can we put a number on it? Let's try, shall we?

With 34 fatalities, the percentage for the number of fatalities for the some 35,000 unvaccinated who became infected is about 0.00095%. For the some 4,100 vaccinated with 37 fatalities, it is an order of magnitude higher at around 0.009.

As much as I criticize the mainstreet media, I do have to admit that they probably got their heading for that article right.

Figures Show Delta is More Transmissible and Resistant to Vaccine.

It's too small a sample to make that sort of prediction with. Unless your current hobby is trying to find any plausible criticisms of the vaccines, of course.

And duh, it's been well reported that the Delta variant has caused more 'breakthrough' cases among the vaccinated, as well as having greater spread among the unvaccinated. It's more contagious, it can be more severe, and it seems to hit the young harder than other variants.

But never mind, let's keep trying to crap on the vaccines, right?

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Greg K

And I suppose that equally I might assume that you were good with the FAA and Boeing's explanation that it was pilot error that brought down both of those Max 727s and would have had no issue in continuing to fly on those models prior to them being grounded ...

Do you have a source, for that claim [FAA claimed pilot error]?

As for what Boeing may have said:
Boeing Charged with 737 Max Fraud Conspiracy and Agrees to Pay over $2.5 Billion
“... The misleading statements, half-truths, and omissions communicated by Boeing employees to the FAA impeded the government’s ability to ensure the safety of the flying public ...”
➥ https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/boein...ver-25-billion

[El Pinguino]

I didn't know there was a 727 Max.

Boeing tried to pin it on the pilots. The FAA? Just wasn't doing its job.

https://www.fanabc.com/english/boein...-house-report/

[GordMay]

The most-reported symptoms of COVID-19 are now a headache, sore throat, and runny nose, according to the research team behind a U.K. symptom tracking app, ZOE COVID Symptom Study app, which allowed U.K. residents to report their daily symptoms, throughout most of the pandemic, with scientific analysis provided by King's College London.

Is it a cold? Or is it COVID?
Mild symptoms are allowing the Delta Variant [B1617] to fly under the radar and run rampant among younger, partially vaccinated people according to the latest data from the ZOE COVID Study.

Discussing the figures, Professor Tim Spector predicts the vaccine will protect many vulnerable people, but as the Delta variant spreads much faster than originally thought, things will get worse before they get better.

Tim calls on all app contributors to ask their friends and family under 40 years old to join the app and log how they feel. And if you feel unwell, stay at home and get tested.

ZOE's other focus is personalised nutrition and gut health research. Get the latest diet and nutrition science updates to your inbox by signing up to their newsletter here:
➥ http://eepurl.com/hlUh-L

Data from the ZOE COVID Study suggests that sneezing more than usual can be a sign of COVID-19, but only in people who’ve been vaccinated. [1]
However, it’s important to remember that the link between sneezing and COVID-19 isn’t very strong, so you should stay alert to the 20 symptoms of the disease [2], whether or not you’ve been vaccinated.
[1] Sneezing ➥ https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/covid-sneezing
[2]Symptoms ➥ https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/the-2...-watch-out-for

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHBua3aXQ7c

[Greg K]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Do you have a source, for that claim [FAA claimed pilot error]?

As for what Boeing may have said:
Boeing Charged with 737 Max Fraud Conspiracy and Agrees to Pay over $2.5 Billion
“... The misleading statements, half-truths, and omissions communicated by Boeing employees to the FAA impeded the government’s ability to ensure the safety of the flying public ...”
➥ https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/boein...ver-25-billion

I do not. Nor do I care to look for one. But logic dictates that had the FAA thought otherwise, they would have grounded the planes much earlier.

It is interesting to note that almost anybody with the slightest interest in what brought those planes down could have found out the truth weeks if not months before the official admission of design errors by both Boeing and the FAA. Unfortunately this is but one example of the many failures of regulatory expert bodies. And I'm being kind not to call it corruption.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Greg K

I do not. Nor do I care to look for one. But logic dictates that ...
... Unfortunately this is but one example of the many failures of regulatory expert bodies. And I'm being kind not to call it corruption.

Indeed.
Rather than corruption, I would suggest that FAA’s safety related problems are due to the conflicting mission of the FAA, as regulator and promoter of aviation. The role of cheerleader for the aviation industry, financier of aviation expansion, and safety and health regulator conflict.

For instance:
Boeing 737 Max: FAA's outsourcing of air safety raises conflict-of-interest questions
➥ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...es/3497255002/