Covid vaccine after having covid

[Greg K]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Indeed.
Rather than corruption, I would suggest that FAA’s safety related problems are due to the conflicting mission of the FAA, as regulator and promoter of aviation. The role of cheerleader for the aviation industry, financier of aviation expansion, and safety and health regulator conflict.

For instance:
Boeing 737 Max: FAA's outsourcing of air safety raises conflict-of-interest questions
➥ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...es/3497255002/

Yes, I agree completely, but would add that the " conflicting mission" you note is the direct result of the revolving door between industry and government regulatory bodies which creates a conflict of interest within the leadership and, thus, corruption in all regulatory bodies. Simply put, the regulatory bodies are captured by the industries themselves through this process.

[Montanan]

Some lawsuits have been filed against employers that are mandating vaccination as a condition for employment.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/co...?ocid=msedgntp

"And with a portion of the population hesitant to get vaccinated, including some who outright refuse, there may be more showdowns down the line. A May report by the Kaiser Family Foundation, a non-profit that conducts research on key health policy issues, found nearly a third -- 32% -- of unvaccinated adults are waiting for full FDA approval of a vaccine before getting it.

The central argument in the suits is the vaccines are allegedly "experimental" because they only have emergency authorization -- and therefore, they cannot be mandated.

Allison Hoffman, a professor of law at University of Pennsylvania who specializes in health law, told ABC News these complaints “are not very strong legal arguments," noting that employers can legally require workers to get the shots because the FDA's emergency use authorization (EUA) means the shot is safe enough for the public. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has also said vaccines approved under EUA are “safe” and “effective."
. . .
U.S. District Judge Lynn Hughes recently dismissed the action by employees against the Methodist Hospital in Texas 12, saying, “This is not coercion … The public’s interest in having a hospital capable of caring for patients during a pandemic far outweighs protecting the vaccination preferences.” And the judge stated that the employees can simply chose to work elsewhere as employment at will works both ways."

My company, my rules. I have told my employees that vaccination will be a future mandate for employment after two precedent conditions are fulfilled: 1) that vaccines have been and are readily available; 2) that the vaccines receive full approval, advancing from emergency use authorization. And that waivers will be allowed for sincerely held religious beliefs and discernable medical conditions that would make taking a vaccine a health hazard, e.g., prior allergic reactions to an ingredient in a vaccine.

[Mike OReilly]

For the Canadian context, there is an interesting discussion/story in the Globe & Mail around workplaces mandating Covid-19 vaccinations:

Can your workplace mandate COVID-19 vaccinations?

Employment lawyers warn that not all workplaces are on the same legal footing, and say most employers would be better off creating non-punitive alternatives to mandatory policies, or incentivizing employees to get their shots.

“I think there will be workplaces that will be able to justify [a mandatory vaccination policy] if it’s challenged, but for all employers to assume they can do it I think is a mistake,” said Dan Bokenfohr, a partner in the labour and employment practice group for McLennan Ross LLP. “Because it really is going to be industry-dependent, context-dependent, these assessments will be made on an employer-by-employer basis.”

[Sohum]

Give trust to……?

Ancel Keys, the Sacklers, Monsanto, Bayer, Dow, DuPont and their forever chemicals. The American Heart Association and the “diet-heart hypothesis”. The American Diabetes Association information and guidance that keeps diabetics on insulin. Financial experts and leaders packaging MBS, CDO. Industrial ag, Big Pharma, social media, the us patent system, along with patent trolls. Enron and it’s experts, Flints water scandal. Trust the FDA? The largest watchdog group is heavily influenced by agribusiness, tobacco, biotech, pharma players, drug innovators, government lobbies, food manufacturers. Only since 2016, did they issue New guidance regarding Conflict of Interest for advisory committee members.




https://www.vox.com/science-and-heal...gy-replication


https://thefederalist.com/2014/01/17...-of-expertise/



https://www.frontiersin.org/articles...019.02505/full

[NPCampbell]

Originally Posted by Montanan

My company, my rules. I have told my employees that vaccination will be a future mandate for employment after two precedent conditions are fulfilled: 1) that vaccines have been and are readily available; 2) that the vaccines receive full approval, advancing from emergency use authorization. And that waivers will be allowed for sincerely held religious beliefs and discernable medical conditions that would make taking a vaccine a health hazard, e.g., prior allergic reactions to an ingredient in a vaccine.

Your company, your rules ... but you don't get to decide if the religious belief is "sincerely held" even with the Title VII verbiage. If you have waivers for religious beliefs then I can belong to the Church of Air Breathing or no church whatsoever and you must honor my religious objections to vaccinations.

However, you don't actually have to have a waiver, you can instead have an "accommodation" instead. An example of an accommodation would be requiring full time usage of face masks for employees that don't want to obtain a vaccination.

I have seen one argument which I'm curious if it will make its way through the courts. Currently, when you are traveling abroad and you return to the US, you must present either a negative Covid test or proof of prior Covid recovery. Proof of Covid vaccination is not accepted. If the government is discounting vaccination in favor of recovering from a Covid infection, why should a private company not have to make the same allowance?

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by NPCampbell

I have seen one argument which I'm curious if it will make its way through the courts. Currently, when you are traveling abroad and you return to the US, you must present either a negative Covid test or proof of prior Covid recovery. Proof of Covid vaccination is not accepted. If the government is discounting vaccination in favor of recovering from a Covid infection, why should a private company not have to make the same allowance?

That doesn't sound quite right. If you've had the full vaccination course in the US before taking the trip, does that count? Links to this case?

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

That doesn't sound quite right. If you've had the full vaccination course in the US before taking the trip, does that count? Links to this case?

According to the CDC:
Before you arrive in the United States:
All air passengers coming to the United States, including U.S. citizens and fully vaccinated people, are required to have a negative COVID-19 test result no more than 3 days before travel or documentation of recovery from COVID-19 in the past 3 months before they board a flight to the United States.
All air passengers coming to the United States, including U.S. citizens and fully vaccinated people, are required to have a negative COVID-19 viral test result no more than 3 days before travel or documentation of recovery from COVID-19 in the past 3 months before they board a flight to the United States.
➥ https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...g-covid19.html

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by GordMay

All air passengers coming to the United States, including U.S. citizens and fully vaccinated people, are required to have a negative COVID-19 test result no more than 3 days before travel or documentation of recovery from COVID-19 in the past 3 months before they board a flight to the United States....

Not accepting vaccination in lieu would be down to the fact that you could still be symptomatic even though you have been vaccinated.

[Alan Mighty]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Not accepting vaccination in lieu would be down to the fact that you could still be symptomatic even though you have been vaccinated.

And that "proof" of vaccination can be forged or faked.

And that certain vaccines are less effective at preventing infection that others (and that the US only recognizes a subset of the available vaccines).

And that intramuscular vaccines do not stop a respiratory virus from living in the nasopharynx.

And that different people respond in diverse ways to a vaccine with respect their levels of neutralizing antibodies, T cells, B cells, and so on.

And that - unlike say Hepatitis B - there is no easy and accepted test and no accepted minimum acceptable level of neutralising antibodies in the blood.

[CatNewBee]

Autsch...

Hits the vaxxers where it hurts most - the imagined and desired privileges from vaccination.

Sorry guys, no free ride.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Alan Mighty

And that "proof" of vaccination can be forged or faked. .....

And you can't fake or forge the results of a test?

Tell that to them on the subcontinent.

[Alan Mighty]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

And you can't fake or forge the results of a test?

Tell that to them on the subcontinent.

You are perfectly correct El Pinguino. Pre-departure tests can and have been faked.

If I were running the relevant section of the US or Aus govt, I would insist focusing on the result of tests done at arrival, on our soil and controlled by us.

Pre-departure anything is interesting to look at, should you have the luxury of time to waste. No trust. Verify on your own soil under your own control.

How are you're efforts to re-unite yourself with your beloved boat going?

You might remember last time we shared a thread, I had negotiated exit from what was then Dutton-land and was on the way to accomplishing the exit. Went well.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Alan Mighty

......

How are you're efforts to re-unite yourself with your beloved boat going?

You might remember last time we shared a thread, I had negotiated exit from what was then Dutton-land and was on the way to accomplishing the exit. Went well.

Getting there slowly. I've had a permit to leave since some time last year, had my second AZ needle this afternoon ( stamped in my yellow book no less ).
Was planning to head back to Ecuador in October by which time both Mr Joyce and myself thought Slomo would have everyone vaccinated and trans-sopac flights could resume.

I also have to deal with the open/shut/open border in Ecuador - currently open and accepting vaccine certs without q'tine.

And on top of that Chile is shut as tight as a crab's bum at forty fathoms - tighter than Australia with no in or out at all citizen or not - especially if you are a citizen. Only exception is foreigners leaving on a one way ticket.

Current planning is January 22.

[GordMay]

A slight majority of Americans support the concept of requiring vaccination for travel, according to a recent Gallop poll. [1] Gallop says 57% of Americans said that, in order to travel by airplane, they would favor requiring people to show proof that they've been vaccinated.
And there is even wider support for some sort of vaccination verification system globally. A recent Ipsos poll [2] on behalf of the World Economic Forum finds that about 3 in 4 adults across 28 countries agree that COVID-19 vaccine passports should be required of travelers to enter their country.

The governments of the European Union, China, Japan and the United Kingdom are all working on their own digital vaccination certificates for international travel.
The World Health Organization is working on creating standards for developing "Smart Vaccination Certificates" but also advises countries against requiring proof of vaccination, citing unequal global distribution of vaccines.
As to why the USA isn’t accepting Covid vaccination [nor developing passports], I don’t know. [politics, of some stripe].

[1] Gallup ➥ https://news.gallup.com/poll/349580/...-activity.aspx

[2] Ipsos ➥ https://www.ipsos.com/en/global-publ...ational-travel

[Alan Mighty]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Getting there slowly. I've had a permit to leave since some time last year, had my second AZ needle this afternoon ( stamped in my yellow book no less ).

We flew out of then Dutton-land in Nov '20 after negotiating permission to travel to Malaysia, permission to enter Malaysia, approval to transit Singapore-Changi Airport, etc. Passed PCR test on arrival, enjoyed 14-days in beach resort hotel quarantine, passed rapid test-kit antigen test, etc.

Had second bout of Covid-19 about 16 months after the first. Saturday just passed lined up for BioNTech/Pfizer courtesy of Malaysian govt. Local health authorities spurned my yellow book (I've two, dating back to the '70s) and insisted on digital record.

As in post #01 of this thread, my well-primed immune system (from aforementioned 2 cases) delivered a headache the size of Taswegia and a slump in blood pressure into which a 'goon of Hunter red could have been poured were it not for the protesting Palawa. All on script, it seems (see attachments, relevant to the thread of course).