Covid vaccine after having covid

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Alan Mighty

Local health authorities spurned my yellow book (I've two, dating back to the '70s) and insisted on digital record.

As well as the yellow book ( which may be better than digital at a border post in Amazonia) its also on MyGov and also my Medicare account. I just need to figure how to access that on my phone.

I see NZ has shut the door on Sydney...

Door from Melb opened at 2359 last night at the same time as door to Syd slammed shut...... sigh....

[Montanan]

There are currently five states in the country that have a vaccination rate against COVID-19 that is less than 35%. Those states include:

Alabama
Arkansas
Louisiana
Mississippi
Tennessee
Wyoming

There are states that will see an uptick in cases because of variants. But others, like states where there is a high vaccination rate, won’t.

“Connecticut, for example . . ., shows no upsurge of infection, but Mississippi, Alabama, Arkansas, Missouri, show very substantial upsurges of infection. That’s based entirely on how much population wide immunity you have based on vaccination,”
There are two Americas developing because of the vaccine differences. “I call it two COVID nations,” There’s one side of America with a low risk for the delta coronavirus variant — which is beginning to spread in the United States among the unvaccinated — and another where the risk is higher.
“That divide is driven in large part by partisan politics, with vaccination rates highest in liberal cities and lowest in conservative strongholds across the Deep South and in rural areas across the nation,” “Somehow we have to break this idea that allegiance to conservatism and the Republican Party has to do with not getting vaccinated,” “It’s really troubling.”



https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/med...?ocid=msedgntp

[Montanan]

China's COVID vaccine fail: The country's shots may be ineffective at preventing virus spread
https://www.yahoo.com/news/chinas-co...211705039.html

Multiple countries that eagerly inoculated their people with China's COVID vaccines face devastating new case surges.
In the Seychelles, Chile, Bahrain and Mongolia, 50 to 68 percent of the populations have been fully inoculated, outpacing the United States," .
Yet, "All four ranked among the top 10 countries with the worst Covid outbreaks as recently as last week." "And all four are mostly using shots made by two Chinese vaccine makers, Sinopharm and Sinovac Biotech."

By comparison, Israel used Pfizer and has 4.95 cases per million people, versus the Seychelles at 716 per million.

[CatNewBee]

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-n...19-vaccination

Some more rare sideeffects...

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Montanan

China's COVID vaccine fail: The country's shots may be ineffective at preventing virus spread
https://www.yahoo.com/news/chinas-co...211705039.html

Multiple countries that eagerly inoculated their people with China's COVID vaccines face devastating new case surges.
In the Seychelles, Chile, Bahrain and Mongolia, 50 to 68 percent of the populations have been fully inoculated, outpacing........

Hmmmm.....that looks like rather dodgy info... three of those four countries are not facing 'devasting new case surges' and I am on the fence re Mongolia.
Check it here
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/


Interesting that while the new case rate has now started to fall in Chile the recent increase was not matched by an increase in the number of deaths. This ties in with what I have been hearing, that its into younger unvaccinated who are out and about living a normal life in the big cities.

Meanwhile we keep hearing about a 'surge' of new cases in the UK. If you look at the map attached to this piece in the Guardian it is not 'surging' in the UK - it is surging in northern Lancashire but lets not go into the probable reason for that. Also, while the UK case rate is on the rise covid deaths are not.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...CMP=GTUK_email

Great things - statistics.

[Sohum]

Originally Posted by Montanan

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/med...?ocid=msedgntp

There are two Americas developing because of the vaccine differences. “I call it two COVID nations,” There’s one side of America with a low risk for the delta coronavirus variant — which is beginning to spread in the United States among the unvaccinated — and another where the risk is higher.

“That divide is driven in large part by partisan politics, with vaccination rates highest in liberal cities and lowest in conservative strongholds across the Deep South and in rural areas across the nation,” “Somehow we have to break this idea that allegiance to conservatism and the Republican Party has to do with not getting vaccinated,” “It’s really troubling.”

Re: the attached article

I call paragraph 1 above, a great example of “Babbling for Intellectual Points”. qualifies his “expertise”. Unless I’m completely off, is he referring to Vaccinated and not vaccinated. .?

“Two Americas developing“, Somehow we have to break this idea that allegiance to conservatism and the Republican Party has to do with not getting vaccinated,” “It’s really troubling.”

Drive that wedge! Might help if he’d stop the “headlines, stereotypes, and labeling”. No 3rd group? There are the Not vaccinated individuals who respect and accept to wear mask in public for the foreseeable future. A groups who’s driven away from partisan politics.
Then there’s this piece..

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Montanan

China's COVID vaccine fail: The country's shots may be ineffective at preventing virus spread
https://www.yahoo.com/news/chinas-co...211705039.html

Multiple countries that eagerly inoculated their people with China's COVID vaccines face devastating new case surges.
In the Seychelles, Chile, Bahrain and Mongolia, 50 to 68 percent of the populations have been fully inoculated, outpacing the United States," .
Yet, "All four ranked among the top 10 countries with the worst Covid outbreaks as recently as last week." "And all four are mostly using shots made by two Chinese vaccine makers, Sinopharm and Sinovac Biotech."

By comparison, Israel used Pfizer and has 4.95 cases per million people, versus the Seychelles at 716 per million.

The Seychelles has been vaccinated 57% Sinopharm and 43% Covishield. Covishield is AstraZenica. They have not released data yet indicating if either of these showed less efficacy in the Seychelles. Currently Seychelles is using Sinopharm and Sputnik V.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Paul L

The Seychelles has been vaccinated 57% Sinopharm and 43% Covishield. Covishield is AstraZenica. They have not released data yet indicating if either of these showed less efficacy in the Seychelles. Currently Seychelles is using Sinopharm and Sputnik V.

Using stats from very small countries is a bit problematic. Seychelles has a population of less than 100,000 and a very small increase in cases or deaths can look quite dramatic. The moving 7 day average of daily new cases was over 300 6 weeks ago, 70 on 21st June , and 142 on the last reporting day, the 22nd June.

Golly, that is a surge - infections have more than doubled over night!!!!!

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-n...19-vaccination
Some more rare sideeffects...

And, most reported cases of myocarditis and pericarditis are in men, and also occur within days of eating bread.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Using stats from very small countries is a bit problematic. Seychelles has a population of less than 100,000 and a very small increase in cases or deaths can look quite dramatic. The moving 7 day average of daily new cases was over 300 6 weeks ago, 70 on 21st June , and 142 on the last reporting day, the 22nd June.

Golly, that is a surge - infections have more than doubled over night!!!!!

Seychelles data is very interesting because it is small, dense and highly vaccinated. The surge certainly is affecting the people here in the Seychelles. The vast majority of them live on one small island. My post was to note that their is no current evidence that the surge in the Seychelles is due to Sinopharm as implied by Montanas post.

[danstanford]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Seychelles data is very interesting because it is small, dense and highly vaccinated. The surge certainly is affecting the people here in the Seychelles. The vast majority of them live on one small island. My post was to note that their is no current evidence that the surge in the Seychelles is due to Sinopharm as implied by Montanas post.

Excellent observation and good discussion Paul.

If not the vaccine, what would you suggest is the causal element or factor?

Is there any data on how sick these people are getting? I have come to have some comfort on breakthrough infections since the data says you will very likely not be vary sick if you do get infected after vaccination.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by danstanford

Excellent observation and good discussion Paul.

If not the vaccine, what would you suggest is the causal element or factor?

Is there any data on how sick these people are getting? I have come to have some comfort on breakthrough infections since the data says you will very likely not be vary sick if you do get infected after vaccination.

It certainly could be due to the particular vaccines used. It's just that there isn't evidence for it at this time.

About 20-25% of the hospitalized have been fully vaccinated. As in most places, the vast majority do not need hospitalization. The Seychelles did recently have a 54 year old male, fully vaccinated with Covishield (AstraZenica) die of Covid.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Paul L

It certainly could be due to the particular vaccines used. It's just that there isn't evidence for it at this time.

About 20-25% of the hospitalized have been fully vaccinated. As in most places, the vast majority do not need hospitalization. The Seychelles did recently have a 54 year old male, fully vaccinated with Covishield (AstraZenica) die of Covid.

Let me try this again: you need a functional immune system to be able to fight off a virus. You also need a functional immune system to be able to have a vaccine protect you, because the vaccine doesn’t protect you, it’s gone in a day or two… but it teaches the immune system what the virus looks like and practice attacking it.

Between an optimally functional immune system and a failed immune system are many levels. Even if it’s just 30% functional, that may still be enough to save your life (helped by the vaccine training) but at some point it isn’t enough and you die. There is no vaccine to fix that.

Everyone with cancer, aids, hiv, hepatitis, organ transplant etc. has a compromised immune system.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Let me try this again: you need a functional immune system to be able to fight off a virus. You also need a functional immune system to be able to have a vaccine protect you, because the vaccine doesn’t protect you, it’s gone in a day or two… but it teaches the immune system what the virus looks like and practice attacking it.

Between an optimally functional immune system and a failed immune system are many levels. Even if it’s just 30% functional, that may still be enough to save your life (helped by the vaccine training) but at some point it isn’t enough and you die. There is no vaccine to fix that.

Everyone with cancer, aids, hiv, hepatitis, organ transplant etc. has a compromised immune system.

Which has nothing to do with the causes of the surge in the Seychelles.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by danstanford

Seth Godin once wrote that customers are never irrational. He went on to explain that it was their money and they would spend it as they thought best whether you agree with it or not. Obviously they often have a different set of "facts" from yours so they make different choices than you might.

Some prefer full keel "bluewater boats", some prefer faster more maneuverable boats, and some prefer cats. Each will make choices based on their information and will not risk their lives on a choice they believe is a threat to that. Again, your views may differ based on your knowledge/experience.

Obviously vaccine hesitant folks believe the vaccine may represent more risk than covid to them particularly if they have seen virtually everyone they know who got infected recovered nicely and didn't die.

I go for my second shot today without hesitation but I certainly have no problem understanding folks who choose not to.

The fundamental fallacy of your argument is that people form correct decisions.

The fact is they don’t. People screw up all the time by taking the wrong decisions no matter how they arrived at that decision or their intentions.

Not getting vaccinated falls into that category.

Anti vaxxers are only capable of that decision because the majority are getting the vaccine and that’s suppressing the disease. If everyone rejects the vaccine they ( and everyone else ) would be getting infected and sick.

No matter how you look at it , avoiding the vaccine is freeloading off that those that do.