Covid vaccine after having covid

[Thumbs Up]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Don't go quoting numbers in adult company without checking their validity. The number of unvaccinated people in the UK who have died from the virus is 128,066, out of 4,699,868 who tested positive. By my calculator that is 2.7 percent, not 0.000957 percent.

I had included the 71 page UK gov link to some data that was included in the article. But I can't make sense of it. You are right though (about checking the validity). I will post something better next time.

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Hey, it's your case to prove. And my life's too short to watch videos already flagged as misinformation. Again - where's the beef? Prove the case.

As long as you have selective cognitive disorder and refuse even to see the evidence if it is not published through your favorite media filter, what is the meaning of presenting the censored and burried evidence?

[CatNewBee]

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/N...ws.aspx/308653

half of all new C19 cases in Israel fully vaccinated....

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

As long as you have selective cognitive disorder and refuse even to see the evidence if it is not published through your favorite media filter, what is the meaning of presenting the censored and burried evidence?

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/N...ws.aspx/308653

half of all new C19 cases in Israel fully vaccinated....

MY selective cognitive disorder??

All I asked you to do was to prove your case, not hand-wave and point to some pile of raw data, or a suspect video.

Folks like you spreading FUD about vaccination are why people haven't gained immunity fast enough, creating the delays that foster the creation of new variants.... which can break through vaccination. Still, what's the nature and severity of those breakthrough cases, compared to the cases in the unvaccinated?

[Alan Mighty]

To return to the topic of this thread, this week's issue of Science (one of the top two science magazines in English; it's published by the American Associated for the Advancement. The AAAS has been in existence since 1848. Matthew Fontaine Maury was at its inaugural meeting and at the second meeting of AAAS Maury delivered a report on his 'Wind and Current Charts') published two research papers on the topic of Covid-19 immunisation to folks who'd had natural infection with Covid-19.

I attach, for no more than 24 hours, images of the pages of the Science summary of the import of those two papers.

[CruisingCouple]

Originally Posted by Shanachie

Still driving by this thread occasionally, gawking at people with high school diplomas and liberal arts degrees thinking they can become experts in genetics and evolutionary biology by reading wikipedia and Fox News.

What we have here is a bunch of former sailors whose lives have been totally consumed by covid. Afraid to go outside because they might get within 6 feet of somebody who doesn't have vaccine. They no longer live on their boat and instead live out the rest of their lives on covid threads on the internet. Blaming their plight on "anti-maskers", "anti-vaxxers", anti-whatever-the hell.

Quite pathetic actually.

Tell me, WTF do you care if you got your vaccine and somebody else doesn't want any? Why should you give a flying sh!t? You're good to go. Right? So STFU, get off your pedestal and back aboard your boat, and be happy. Quit blaming the world's problems on somebody else. If you're stuck in a third world country and locked in your little covid prison, then find a way out. There's always a way.

[Thumbs Up]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

MY selective cognitive disorder??

All I asked you to do was to prove your case, not hand-wave and point to some pile of raw data, or a suspect video.

Folks like you spreading FUD about vaccination are why people haven't gained immunity fast enough, creating the delays that foster the creation of new variants.... which can break through vaccination. Still, what's the nature and severity of those breakthrough cases, compared to the cases in the unvaccinated?

It is true, there is almost no point. Or we could go point by point. Is the spike protein dangerous? Can you refute:

The paper, published on April 30, 2021, in Circulation Research, also shows conclusively that COVID-19 is a vascular disease, demonstrating exactly how the SARS-CoV-2 virus damages and attacks the vascular system on a cellular level.

https://www.salk.edu/news-release/th...le-in-illness/
Is the journal peer reviewed enough? The study fraudulent? What will you say? A conspiracy? You won't even admit that the protein might be a little dangerous?

[Mike OReilly]

Interesting paper Alan. It suggests that immunity gained by natural exposure followed by vaccination results in superior overall immunity. I've seen this result replicated in other papers, so it appears to be an increasingly robust finding.

The fundamental problem of natural immunity remains though; rather high morbidity and mortality. But as the paper suggests, there may be a way forward that capitalizes on this enhanced immunity without the need for people to die.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by CruisingCouple

Tell me, WTF do you care if you got your vaccine and somebody else doesn't want any? Why should you give a flying sh!t? You're good to go. Right? So STFU, get off your pedestal and back aboard your boat, and be happy. Quit blaming the world's problems on somebody else. If you're stuck in a third world country and locked in your little covid prison, then find a way out. There's always a way.

The general idea is to stop the pandemic, by blocking transmission (isolating/distancing, masks, hygiene, restricting travel, cancelling or restricting public assembly) or by getting enough of the population resistant/immune to COVID so that transmission drops off. Pandemic is a community problem, and community problems require community solutions.

WTF do I care? There's a lot of selfish or misguided a-holes spreading misinformation which causes other people to avoid getting vaccinated, and that means that isolation measures will have to be maintained for longer, and things like vaccine passports will be necessary, and people (mainly the unvaccinated) will continue to get sick, some will die or have long-term effects, and the virus will still have ample opportunity to mutate some more. That's why.

And that tells you who really needs to STFU.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Interesting paper Alan. It suggests that immunity gained by natural exposure followed by vaccination results in superior overall immunity. I've seen this result replicated in other papers, so it appears to be an increasingly robust finding.

For much the same reason, that's why adding time between first and second shot has been beneficial, and even different vaccines for first and second shot has been found to be the same or better than the same vaccine for both.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

For much the same reason, that's why adding time between first and second shot has been beneficial, and even different vaccines for first and second shot has been found to be the same or better than the same vaccine for both.

Yes, quite likely. These are all interesting findings. They flesh out our understanding of this novel virus.

These findings, in no way, suggest that natural immunity is somehow better than vaccine-induced immunity (as I know you know).

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

It is true, there is almost no point. Or we could go point by point. Is the spike protein dangerous? Can you refute:https://www.salk.edu/news-release/th...le-in-illness/
Is the journal peer reviewed enough? The study fraudulent? What will you say? A conspiracy? You won't even admit that the protein might be a little dangerous?

Thumbs Up’s Salk News article [1] discusses an interesting paper [2], which concludes:.

“... This conclusion suggests that vaccination-generated antibody and/or exogenous antibody against S protein not only protects the host from SARS-CoV-2 infectivity but also inhibits S protein-imposed endothelial injury.”

I'm not certain that the paper, nor the Salk News report, entirely supports his contention.


[1] “The novel coronavirus’ spike protein plays additional key role in illness” ~ Salk News [not a peer-reviewed paper]
➥ https://www.salk.edu/news-release/th...le-in-illness/

From the paper,

[2] “SARS-CoV-2 Spike Protein Impairs Endothelial Function via Downregulation of ACE 2" ~ by Yuyang Lei et al, in ‘Circulation Research’*
➥ https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1...AHA.121.318902

* “Circulation Research” is a biweekly peer-reviewed medical journal published by Lippincott Williams & Wilkins. It is the official journal of the American Heart Association and its Council on Basic Cardiovascular Sciences. The journal covers research on all aspects of the cardiovascular system.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

The general idea is to stop the pandemic, by blocking transmission (isolating/distancing, masks, hygiene, restricting travel, cancelling or restricting public assembly) or by getting enough of the population resistant/immune to COVID so that transmission drops off. Pandemic is a community problem, and community problems require community solutions.

WTF do I care? There's a lot of selfish or misguided a-holes spreading misinformation which causes other people to avoid getting vaccinated, and that means that isolation measures will have to be maintained for longer, and things like vaccine passports will be necessary, and people (mainly the unvaccinated) will continue to get sick, some will die or have long-term effects, and the virus will still have ample opportunity to mutate some more. That's why.

And that tells you who really needs to STFU.

[Montanan]

Booster may be needed for J&J shot as Delta variant spreads, some experts already taking them


Infectious disease experts are weighing the need for booster shots of the Pfizer/BioNTech or Moderna mRNA-based vaccines for Americans who received Johnson & Johnson's one-dose vaccine due to the increasing prevalence of the more contagious Delta coronavirus variant.

The debate centers on concerns over how protective the J&J shot is against the Delta variant first detected in India and now circulating widely in many countries. Delta, which has also been associated with more severe disease, could quickly become the dominant version of the virus in the United States

There's no doubt that the people who receive the J&J vaccine are less protected against disease," than those who get two doses of the other shots, said Stanford professor Dr. Michael Lin. "From the principle of taking easy steps to prevent really bad outcomes, this is really a no brainer."

The CDC is not recommending boosters, and advisors to the agency said at a public meeting this week there is not yet significant evidence of declining protection from the vaccines.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/b...235153122.html

[Thumbs Up]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Thumbs Up’s Salk News article [1] discusses an interesting paper [2], which concludes:.

“... This conclusion suggests that vaccination-generated antibody and/or exogenous antibody against S protein not only protects the host from SARS-CoV-2 infectivity but also inhibits S protein-imposed endothelial injury.”

I'm not certain that the paper, nor the Salk News report, entirely supports his contention.


[1] “The novel coronavirus’ spike protein plays additional key role in illness” ~ Salk News [not a peer-reviewed paper]
➥ https://www.salk.edu/news-release/th...le-in-illness/

From the paper,

[2] “SARS-CoV-2 Spike Protein Impairs Endothelial Function via Downregulation of ACE 2" ~ by Yuyang Lei et al, in ‘Circulation Research’*
➥ https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1...AHA.121.318902

* “Circulation Research” is a biweekly peer-reviewed medical journal published by Lippincott Williams & Wilkins. It is the official journal of the American Heart Association and its Council on Basic Cardiovascular Sciences. The journal covers research on all aspects of the cardiovascular system.

You say that the paper is not peer reviewed? Do you know what "peer reviewed" means? I will leave the exact definition up to you to post (since you like to do that) but it will suffice to say that if it is published by a peer reviewed journal then it is peer reviewed.

As to whether the Spike protein itself is harmful (I contended that it is). You can post as many fact check articles that you want (such as this one:https://www.reuters.com/article/fact...-idUSL2N2NX1J6)saying that it is not but do they provide any peer reviewed evidence at all behind their assertions? No they do not.

There is no need to take my word for it. I did not deduce from this study that the spike protein itself is harmful, I read it as the opinion of the scientists that are talking about it. If you get your science from propaganda outlets like Reuters fact checks, then you will think different. But you will be ignoring science.

There are two big contentions that have come to the forefront:
1. The covid spike protein is toxic.
2. The vaccine particles do not stay at the injection site as claimed, but instead concentrate in different organs, most notably the ovaries.

I am not sure that we are finished discussing the first contention so I will wait to post evidence of the second. There seem to be dozens of "fact checks" that are disputing both of these claims so we will see where this goes. It looks like a lot of the news outlets are slowly and quietly changing their stance since they can't deny the science.