Covid vaccine after having covid

[sagablu]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

You say that the paper is not peer reviewed? Do you know what "peer reviewed" means? I will leave the exact definition up to you to post (since you like to do that) but it will suffice to say that if it is published by a peer reviewed journal then it is peer reviewed.

As to whether the Spike protein itself is harmful (I contended that it is). You can post as many fact check articles that you want (such as this one:https://www.reuters.com/article/fact...-idUSL2N2NX1J6)saying that it is not but do they provide any peer reviewed evidence at all behind their assertions? No they do not.

There is no need to take my word for it. I did not deduce from this study that the spike protein itself is harmful, I read it as the opinion of the scientists that are talking about it. If you get your science from propaganda outlets like Reuters fact checks, then you will think different. But you will be ignoring science.

There are two big contentions that have come to the forefront:
1. The covid spike protein is toxic.
2. The vaccine particles do not stay at the injection site as claimed, but instead concentrate in different organs, most notably the ovaries.

I am not sure that we are finished discussing the first contention so I will wait to post evidence of the second. There seem to be dozens of "fact checks" that are disputing both of these claims so we will see where this goes. It looks like a lot of the news outlets are slowly and quietly changing their stance since they can't deny the science.

To your comments:
1) no evidence of this in fact tons of evidence to the contrary. If spike proteins were toxic then people would be dying from the vaccine. Further they would be doing more often from natural infection. I don't even have to get into all the other Corona viruses that are common in the environment and have been around a long time. Totally unsupported statement.

2) The MRNA fragments may travel but do not persist. In a couple of weeks the body has broken them down so when you see the accumulate, you make the wrong inference. To say they accumulate me ovaries is just completely unsupported. Only unsupported comments mentioning this and nothing that has been reviewed let alone to the standard of peer review which you keep mentioning but conveniently forget when it serves your agenda. More info below.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7205710/

You keep insisting on proof but when it comes to your assertions you're willing to go with someone who has questionable credentials or underlying agendas. Further you feel vaccine that has been given to hundreds of millions with minimal side effects is worse than a virus shrinking your gray matter, causing numerous inflammatory effects, kidney damage, liver damage lung scarring, heart inflammation and other long-term effects. That you're okay with? Your judgment of relative risk is questionable to say at least.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

You say that the paper is not peer reviewed? ...

NO, I indicated the the "Salk News" article, which you cited, is not a peer-reviewed scientific paper.
It's a news report, discussing a peer-reviewed scientific paper, to which I linked, and quoted.
This one:
“SARS-CoV-2 Spike Protein Impairs Endothelial Function via Downregulation of ACE 2"~ by Yuyang Lei et al
➥ https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1...AHA.121.318902

[Thumbs Up]

Originally Posted by sagablu

To your comments:
1) no evidence of this in fact tons of evidence to the contrary. If spike proteins were toxic then people would be dying from the vaccine. Further they would be doing more often from natural infection. I don't even have to get into all the other Corona viruses that are common in the environment and have been around a long time. Totally unsupported statement.

2) The MRNA fragments may travel but do not persist. In a couple of weeks the body has broken them down so when you see the accumulate, you make the wrong inference. To say they accumulate me ovaries is just completely unsupported. Only unsupported comments mentioning this and nothing that has been reviewed let alone to the standard of peer review which you keep mentioning but conveniently forget when it serves your agenda. More info below.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7205710/

You keep insisting on proof but when it comes to your assertions you're willing to go with someone who has questionable credentials or underlying agendas. Further you feel vaccine that has been given to hundreds of millions with minimal side effects is worse than a virus shrinking your gray matter, causing numerous inflammatory effects, kidney damage, liver damage lung scarring, heart inflammation and other long-term effects. That you're okay with? Your judgment of relative risk is questionable to say at least.

You are okay with the mass inoculation of our children who are not at risk with this unproven experiment despite the emerging incidences of heart damage, evidence of reproductive harm, no proper risk benefit analysis, reports of deaths etc?
There are plenty of reports of deaths, blood clots, heart problems etc. from these "vaccines". If you choose to discount them or place more stock in your fact check articles over the actual science to the point where you are advocating injecting this into every child then it is your judgment that is in question (to say the least). I am trying to follow the actual science and the debate that is emerging. You nor I are qualified to have a voice in this debate. I am trying to show that it is a real issue but actively being suppressed by the public health agencies and the media. It is the big Pharma corporations that have questionable credentials. They were allowed to design their own trial, conduct the trial, analyze the results, interpret the results and write the reports themselves with practically no oversight. Convicted felons. Between the TV ads promoting new drugs and the attorney ads suing for their side effects it is hard for me to have trust in these institutions. Who is funding the fact checkers? Why am I finding emerging science that is directly contradicting the fact checks? This is not questionable fringe science. It is peer reviewed science printed by an extremely reputable journal.
In their words (the Salk Institute):

the paper provides clear confirmation and a detailed explanation of the mechanism through which the protein damages vascular cells

This is directly contradictory to what dozens of these fact checking articles are claiming!
You say " If spike proteins were toxic then people would be dying from the vaccine", but there are over 6000 reports in the US alone (many, many more in Europe) of people dying from the vaccine. If you look at these reports it is obvious that you can discount some of them (yet not all are reported) but the majority of them are plausibly from the vaccines. There is no risk to benefit studies showing that these are safe for children, none.

[Thumbs Up]

Originally Posted by GordMay

NO, I indicated the the "Salk News" article, which you cited, is not a peer-reviewed scientific paper.
It's a news report, discussing a peer-reviewed scientific paper, to which I linked, and quoted.
This one:
“SARS-CoV-2 Spike Protein Impairs Endothelial Function via Downregulation of ACE 2"~ by Yuyang Lei et al
➥ https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1...AHA.121.318902

It is a press release describing the research they performed that has been published in a very reputable (peer reviewed) journal.

THE NOVEL CORONAVIRUS’ SPIKE PROTEIN PLAYS ADDITIONAL KEY ROLE IN ILLNESS
Salk researchers and collaborators show how the protein damages cells, confirming COVID-19 as a primarily vascular diseasehttps://www.salk.edu/news-release/th...le-in-illness/

The Salk Institute itself is very reputable. It is their research. Fact check or not, I don't think that anyone here can refute it. The fact that this new research has confirmed that Covid19 is primarily a vascular disease (not just a respiratory disease) has turned some heads in the scientific community. The "fact checkers" have some catching up to do.

I am adding a link to this article in Nature:

Why is it so hard to investigate the rare side effects of COVID vaccines?
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00880-9

[CatNewBee]

Not peer reviewed by CNN, Reuters, WaPo and NYT.

Who cares about a geeky journal like Nature? They post every day something different instead of sticking to the consistent peer reviewed and approved story.

[emoji2369]

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

You are okay with the mass inoculation of our children who are not at risk with this unproven experiment despite the emerging incidences of heart damage, evidence of reproductive harm, no proper risk benefit analysis, reports of deaths etc?
There are plenty of reports of deaths, blood clots, heart problems etc. from these "vaccines"

"unproven experiment"... Troll harder, whydoncha.

No-one has denied that vaccines haven't produced adverse reactions. You just can't accept the fact that vaccination is still orders of magnitude safer than leaving a population to acquire immunity through getting COVID. You certainly haven't disproved this fact.

And you and your little friends can't understand why we need to vaccinate as many as possible. Do you want to have a permanent lockdown, or a two-tier world? Cos that's what will happen if not enough people become immune to COVID.

[Thumbs Up]

This Canadian viral immunologist:https://ovc.uoguelph.ca/pathobiology...Byram-W-Bridle is being skewered by fact checks and is being slandered https://byrambridle.com/ for statements he has made about these latest studies. Here is his

COVID-19 Vaccines and Children:
A Scientist’s Guide for Parentshttps://trialsitenews.com/wp-content...e_-FINAL-2.pdf

https://omny.fm/shows/on-point-with-...cf4iBm8NPMNq-I

We made a big mistake...We thought the spike protein was a great target antigen...We never knew the spike protein itself was a toxin, a pathogenic protein. We are inadvertently inoculating people with a toxin. This can get into circulation in some people and when that happens in some people it can cause damage, especially in the cardiovascular system ...

This has the fact checkers spinning out articles left and right all claiming there is no science to back it up.
Dr. Peter McCullough https://www.cardiometabolichealth.or...ccullough.html and Dr. Robert Malone https://www.rwmalonemd.com/
have also come forward defending these allegations. These are by no means fringe doctors or scientists and they are trying to blow the whistle on the wisdom of inoculating young people.
Fact checks targeting this are livid and are claiming absolutely no credible scientific evidence backs any of it up. We've even got LE here throwing hail marys trying to close the thread down.
We are being lied to. Everything that I posted here is being tagged as misinformation, but it checks out.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

Of course we do. If we get sick, we will get through it, as we would do with any other cold or flu - nobody else has to take the consequences, it is always personal.

Maybe you will get through it, quite possibly you won't. I don't believe I am a superman (maybe you are), and I've seen friends "not get through it".

So you have a belief structure:

• You will get through Covid, so no shot required.
• It is your personal decision and you accept the consequences (though you don't mention the consequences to others who may catch it from you)
• You believe the the medical community (or who) are collecting data from the PCR swabs
• You also believe "they" are imbedding data collection devices inside of the shots?
• You believe that the technologies of 5G is somehow involved in this mass surveillance

Please tell us CatNewBee, who are these people who are doing this? How do they get recruited, and how do they keep it secret? Surely someone would escape from the secret facilities and blab. Maybe they already have, and when investigative reporters started sniffing around that secret facility, it somehow has been moved?

Sorry, my feeling is that some people just are not wired to understand the world so they make up crazy explanations, which include conspiracy theories, which make every thing understandable.

I'm actually hopeful, for the human race, that a previous commenter's ideas about natural selection and how the stupid will kill off themselves, is true.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

Fact checks targeting this are livid and are claiming absolutely no credible scientific evidence backs any of it up. We've even got LE here throwing hail marys trying to close the thread down.

That's not true, of course. Give us numbers, not hypotheticals. Don't tell us what might happen, tell us about what actually is happening. Also read up on "intramuscular injection".

We are being lied to. Everything that I posted here is being tagged as misinformation, but it checks out.

More of your BS.

Answer this one question: what's riskier - catching COVID or getting vaccinated?

[Thumbs Up]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

That's not true, of course. Give us numbers, not hypotheticals. Don't tell us what might happen, tell us about what actually is happening. Also read up on "intramuscular injection".

More of your BS.

Answer this one question: what's riskier for a child- catching COVID or getting vaccinated?

This is the question you should be asking.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

.
Fact checks targeting this are livid and are claiming absolutely no credible scientific evidence backs any of it up...Everything that I posted here is being tagged as misinformation, but it checks out.

I read through Bridle's table of contents and selected text. I did not find substantiation for the claims he made in his executive summary:

"However, there is evidence that Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine does not remain at the injection site. In fact, once injected, the vaccine contents appear to travel extensively throughout the body, to the brain and other sensitive tissues, such as bone marrow, spleen, liver, adrenal glands, ovaries
etc."

It seems to me that his dramatic claims are getting him attention, he'll soon be a celebrity. To me he is an opinionated man not above exaggerating his own study with the assumption that people won't read it.

And your claim that fact checkers are "livid'...you of course know that for a fact, right? It reminds me of conservative commenter claiming that liberal's "heads were exploding". Becomes a meme soon after.

[carlosproa]

I had COVID at least twice. The first time after attending the RSNA in Chicago at the end of November. At that time we had no idea of COVID, yet at least 7 people I did business with got very sick like me and we thought it was a bad case of the flu. Then in February I went to Nicaragua for business and got as sick as the first time. I thought there may be something really wrong with me so I got all kind of test after recovering. One of the test was COVID and bingo. My wife and kids were a symptomatic.
Then we got the Pfizer vaccine. Both times I got sick 24 hours after the dosis in the same fashion, lasting only 24 hours of bad side effect.
So, I believe there is a genetic component on how you react to the vaccine. My siblings all contracted COVID in Venezuela, Ecuador, Boston, and me in Miami. We had the same symptoms. We also got vaccinated but none had the same vaccine type. Looks like J&J is very tolerable

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by wingssail

I read through Bridle's table of contents and selected text. I did not find substantiation for the claims he made in his executive summary:

"However, there is evidence that Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine does not remain at the injection site. In fact, once injected, the vaccine contents appear to travel extensively throughout the body, to the brain and other sensitive tissues, such as bone marrow, spleen, liver, adrenal glands, ovaries
etc."

It seems to me that his dramatic claims are getting him attention, he'll soon be a celebrity. To me he is an opinionated man not above exaggerating his own study with the assumption that people won't read it.

And your claim that fact checkers are "livid'...you of course know that for a fact, right? It reminds me of conservative commenter claiming that liberal's "heads were exploding". Becomes a meme soon after.

Or.. could he be the real deal..
Free Julian Assange..

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

This is the question you should be asking.

Don't change the subject; you haven't wanted anyone vaccinated. Yet many have been and it's working! Pointing to children as you are forced to retreat seems like an act of desperation.

Here's one for you: if more adults were getting vaccinated, then there wouldn't be the same pressure to vaccinate kids as well. But no... antivaxxers, conspiracy nuts and COVID deniers have all had effect, not enough adults have been vaccinated so the transmission risks are not sufficiently reduced, and so if children are to get back to a normal life without becoming another virus reservoir... they'll have to be vaccinated. I hope you're proud of your small role in helping bring this about.

[Thumbs Up]

Originally Posted by wingssail

.....[INDENT]"However, there is evidence that Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine does not remain at the injection site. In fact, once injected, the vaccine contents appear to travel extensively throughout the body, to the brain and other sensitive tissues, such as bone marrow, spleen, liver, adrenal glands, ovaries
etc."

I said earlier we would go point by point. I was still trying to convince you guys that the spike protein was toxic. There is evidence from studies that Pfizer provided Japan that became public. https://www.docdroid.net/xq0Z8B0/pfi...government-pdf
Unless this document is completely fake it is a practically a smoking gun

As for the fact checks, I search: Is covid spike protein harmful? https://www.google.com/search?q=is+c...hrome&ie=UTF-8
What do you see? How many fact checks come up before the first article that admits we might have a problem? And what are those fact checks claiming? No evidence? They are outright lying.