Covid vaccine after having covid

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Ah come on, one R.I. acre foot of water, now that is so not an impressive statistic.
Rhode Island, a postage stamp sized State, blink and you miss it if one is driving through. Heck that State is less than one quarter the size of Beaverhead County, Montana [one of the 56 counties in the 406 Country]. The State of Connecticut is a tad smaller than the Beaverhead. The Beaverhead is where my second residence is located and at which I am presently visiting to avoid the worst of the heat wave in the Pacific Northwest.

And here we have the classic example of waste justification.. complete with bragging rights.
Impressive statistic, the average American uses more water in one day than I used in a 47day nonstop Atlantic transit.. 50 gallon tank and I still had some left.
Aren't you lot in Montana currently trying to screw the Flatheads out of their rights to control their water.???
The water rights compact has divided the Flathead Indian Reservation, pitting neighbors, friends and the community as a whole against one another over the struggle to decide who controls the rights to water sources both on and off the reservation. On the edges of the fight there is litigation, confusion, frustration, and allegations of racism.

https://www.kpax.com/news/montana-ne...-water-dispute

[Shanachie]

Elaborating on Mike O'Reilly's earlier remark:


An Overview of the Dunning-Kruger Effect

This phenomenon is something you have likely experienced in real life, perhaps around the dinner table at a holiday family gathering. Throughout the course of the meal, a member of your extended family begins spouting off on a topic at length, boldly proclaiming that he is correct and that everyone else's opinion is stupid, uninformed, and just plain wrong.



It may be plainly evident to everyone in the room that this person has no idea what he is talking about, yet he prattles on, blithely oblivious to his own ignorance.






The effect is named after researchers David Dunning and Justin Kruger, the two social psychologists who first described it. In their original study on this psychological phenomenon, they performed a series of four investigations.





People who scored in the lowest percentiles on tests of grammar, humor, and logic also tended to dramatically overestimate how well they had performed (their actual test scores placed them in the 12th percentile, but they estimated that their performance placed them in the 62nd percentile).





... Incompetent people, the researchers found, are not only poor performers, they are also unable to accurately assess and recognize the quality of their own work.



This is the reason why students who earn failing scores on exams sometimes feel that they deserved a much higher score. They overestimate their own knowledge and ability and are incapable of seeing the poorness of their performance.





Low performers are unable to recognize the skill and competence levels of other people, which is part of the reason why they consistently view themselves as better, more capable, and more knowledgeable than others.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Shanachie

Elaborating on Mike O'Reilly's earlier remark:


An Overview of the Dunning-Kruger Effect

This phenomenon is something you have likely experienced in real life, perhaps around the dinner table at a holiday family gathering. Throughout the course of the meal, a member of your extended family begins spouting off on a topic at length, boldly proclaiming that he is correct and that everyone else's opinion is stupid, uninformed, and just plain wrong.



It may be plainly evident to everyone in the room that this person has no idea what he is talking about, yet he prattles on, blithely oblivious to his own ignorance.






The effect is named after researchers David Dunning and Justin Kruger, the two social psychologists who first described it. In their original study on this psychological phenomenon, they performed a series of four investigations.





People who scored in the lowest percentiles on tests of grammar, humor, and logic also tended to dramatically overestimate how well they had performed (their actual test scores placed them in the 12th percentile, but they estimated that their performance placed them in the 62nd percentile).





... Incompetent people, the researchers found, are not only poor performers, they are also unable to accurately assess and recognize the quality of their own work.



This is the reason why students who earn failing scores on exams sometimes feel that they deserved a much higher score. They overestimate their own knowledge and ability and are incapable of seeing the poorness of their performance.





Low performers are unable to recognize the skill and competence levels of other people, which is part of the reason why they consistently view themselves as better, more capable, and more knowledgeable than others.

An excellent Copy & Paste of Christiane Blanco..

https://drchristianeblancooilar.com/...-kruger-effect

Can we presume you consider yourself in the 62nd percentile..

[Shanachie]

Nice try, Boatman61. There are some areas I am expert in, and many more areas in which I know enough to defer to the people who have put in the time to be truly knowledgeable.


I see you are a delivery captain. Imagine a landbound person reading Slocum's Sailing Alone Around The World and Moitessier's The Long Way, then presuming to tell you how to plan your next delivery.


You would laugh at them.



But that is what's happening on this thread. It's full of people misreading medical studies, spouting conspiracy theories and attacking experts who know far more than some cruiser sitting at his dock with a web browser.


Dunning-Kruger Effect is an apt description for it. I just hope that it doesn't cost some Cruisers Forum members their lives.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Shanachie

Elaborating on Mike O'Reilly's earlier remark:


An Overview of the Dunning-Kruger Effect

The effect is named after researchers David Dunning and Justin Kruger, the two social psychologists who first described it. In their original study on this psychological phenomenon, they performed a series of four investigations.
... Incompetent people, the researchers found, are not only poor performers, they are also unable to accurately assess and recognize the quality of their own work.
...
Low performers are unable to recognize the skill and competence levels of other people, which is part of the reason why they consistently view themselves as better, more capable, and more knowledgeable than others.

Yes indeed Shanachie. As I said, this thread is a prime example of the effect in action.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Shanachie

Nice try, Boatman61. There are some areas I am expert in, and many more areas in which I know enough to defer to the people who have put in the time to be truly knowledgeable.


I see you are a delivery captain. Imagine a landbound person reading Slocum's Sailing Alone Around The World and Moitessier's The Long Way, then presuming to tell you how to plan your next delivery.


You would laugh at them.



But that is what's happening on this thread. It's full of people misreading medical studies, spouting conspiracy theories and attacking experts who know far more than some cruiser sitting at his dock with a web browser.


Dunning-Kruger Effect is an apt description for it. I just hope that it doesn't cost some Cruisers Forum members their lives.

The Delivery Skipper analogy is kinda poor to use.. ever since I joined CF mud people with a hobby, lake sailors and coastal cruisers have been telling me what I do wrong from anchoring, weather sourcing, provisioning, watch keeping and storm tactics which is kinda funny since for most crossing oceans has been done at 30,000ft..If you look back over my posts you will see I never tell folks what they should do, merely what I would do in this or that situation.
That's because I don't consider myself an 'Expert' merely a 'Jack of all Trades and a Master of None'.
To be honest I don't think we have any experts on Covid here, just a lot of frightened people regurgitating stuff they've scavenged of the internet and are throwing out in the name of 'Altruism' from sources of the disease to its solution.
Lets face it, over the centuries we have not found a solution to the common cold nor a flu shot effective against influenza.. that remains a case of 'Throw the Variants in a hat, pull out a name and Hope for the best'
Some years its 50% right, others its a fail.
Science has, in my opinion, once again opened Pandora's Box and somethings gotten out and the scramble to hide and contain the fallout has commenced.
On the one side you have the frightened for themselves people cheerleading every restriction imposed by our 'Betters' and in the vanguard of the calls for compulsory mass vaccination of the populace with an as yet unproven solution to a manmade crisis.. and they justify it with imperfect logic.
Now I know this is going to lead to screams of 'Look how the deaths are decreasing', well it could be that the weakest links in society have largely been weeded out.. age having nothing to do with survival, more the individuals immune systems ability to resist and recover.. lets face it, there's enough examples of people in their 70's to 90's catching Covid and coming out the other side with a big grin.
Face it, Social Experiments have led to far greater death tolls in countries than Covid-19 has yet managed to achieve worldwide..
Hitler is blamed for 12 million concentration camp deaths and at least 30 million other deaths associated with World War II, while Stalin is believed responsible for between 30 million and 40 million "unnatural deaths," including millions from a famine he created...
Too many here are not waiting till the Fat Lady Sings... we're still only in the 2nd Act and its the skinny broads aria..
Like everything in life its a roll of the dice..

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Shanachie

Nice try, Boatman61. There are some areas I am expert in, and many more areas in which I know enough to defer to the people who have put in the time to be truly knowledgeable.

I see you are a delivery captain. Imagine a landbound person reading Slocum's Sailing Alone Around The World and Moitessier's The Long Way, then presuming to tell you how to plan your next delivery.

You would laugh at them.

Really great analogy, especially for CF.

But that is what's happening on this thread. It's full of people misreading medical studies, spouting conspiracy theories and attacking experts who know far more than some cruiser sitting at his dock with a web browser.

Dunning-Kruger Effect is an apt description for it. I just hope that it doesn't cost some Cruisers Forum members their lives.

Yeah, the DK effect has existed forever... I think the modern problem is that it's become much more OK to flex your DK... to deny reality, or to paint it with one's belief system. The first step is to pretend that the usual channels for information are not trustworthy and are part of some nefarious cabal in the service of some never specified agenda. The next ingredient is a new media landscape where the dullest cretin has publishing power almost equal to the largest newspaper... and the nuts are able to find each other, amplifying the stupid. The final step is when populist politicians figure out that that they can harness this Babel of competing narratives and confusion to play on fears and doubts. They pile onto the bashing of the mainstream information channels, acknowledge (or wink at) some of the crazy, add to the denial of reality ("alternative facts") and then surf it to election victory.

tl;dr: crazy has come out of the closet and got a seat or three at the big table.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by boatman61

On the one side you have the frightened for themselves people cheerleading every restriction imposed by our 'Betters' and in the vanguard of the calls for compulsory mass vaccination of the populace with an as yet unproven solution to a manmade crisis.. and they justify it with imperfect logic.
Now I know this is going to lead to screams of 'Look how the deaths are decreasing', well it could be that the weakest links in society have largely been weeded out.. age having nothing to do with survival, more the individuals immune systems ability to resist and recover.. lets face it, there's enough examples of people in their 70's to 90's catching Covid and coming out the other side with a big grin.

(hint - not just deaths; new infections are going down too)

So you recognise zero opportunity or necessity for cooperation to crush a pressing collective problem.

Of course, you've rigged the question so you win regardless of the truth.

It was ever thus; there are always outliers, contrarians, iconoclasts who pride themselves on their "independence" while being carried by the rest of us.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

(hint - not just deaths; new infections are going down too)

Then why is Europe in a panic.. despite the Pfizer shot being claimed as 88% effective against the Delta variant.. I mean, that's not a lot different from the original analysis.

So you recognise zero opportunity or necessity for cooperation to crush a pressing collective problem.

I would be looking more for effective treatments than an impossible eradication.. lets face it, the Nidovirales order has not been conquered yet and this newly released variant is unlikely to be any different.

Of course, you've rigged the question so you win regardless of the truth.

Did not realise I had posed a question, I was merely responding to a silly analogy from a self proclaimed expert..Does this mean I qualify in the top 62nd percentile of KD Sufferers..
I accept that's still well below your esteemed heights and I am still merely a 'Lying A***hole'...

It was ever thus; there are always outliers, contrarians, iconoclasts who pride themselves on their "independence" while being carried by the rest of us.

You'll be calling yourself Jesus next..

[Greg K]

Originally Posted by Shanachie

Nice try, Boatman61. There are some areas I am expert in, and many more areas in which I know enough to defer to the people who have put in the time to be truly knowledgeable.


I see you are a delivery captain. Imagine a landbound person reading Slocum's Sailing Alone Around The World and Moitessier's The Long Way, then presuming to tell you how to plan your next delivery.


You would laugh at them.



But that is what's happening on this thread. It's full of people misreading medical studies, spouting conspiracy theories and attacking experts who know far more than some cruiser sitting at his dock with a web browser.


Dunning-Kruger Effect is an apt description for it. I just hope that it doesn't cost some Cruisers Forum members their lives.

No, it is not what is happening here on this thread. You are either incapable of grasping the nature of the discussion here or are purposely mischaracterizing it in order to malign those who disagree with you.
To my knowledge, there are no experts in this discussion. All here are non experts in the field and the disagreement revolves around the competing opinions of experts. The side that is unquestioningly supporting and promoting the experimental gene therapy is relying primarily on the edicts of official government sources and their collaborators in MSM who suppress all other information to the contrary. Those on the other side, who are skeptical of these new generation therapies , are also relying on the opinions and research of scientists' and medical experts whose voices have been and are being suppressed.

So, no, it is not a matter of the scientifically ignorant arguing against the experts here. It is a much larger and more serious schism that separates the participants. Simply put, it is a matter of trust or lack there of. Who is to be trusted and who is not. Does a scientist or a medical professional who risks their reputation and livelihood to stand against mob rule have more credence than a lackey repeating the permissible narrative? To anyone with the slightest degree of critical thinking, both history and the current situation offers countless valid reasons for skepticism towards, MSM, big pharma, DOD, DAPRA, and other governmental institutions.

Interestingly, not so long ago most liberal thinkers used to share such a healthy skepticism as did much of the media. Not any more. So, what happened? Figure that out and you will understand the discussion here much more clearly.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Greg K

the experimental gene therapy

Show me ONE credible subject matter expert who has called the mRNA vaccines "gene therapy". This scare-mongering term is clear indication that you don't understand how these vaccines work.

Does a scientist or a medical professional who risks their reputation and livelihood to stand against mob rule have more credence than a lackey repeating the permissible narrative?

"mob rule", "lackey", "permissible narrative" - all giveaways.

There's always room for disagreement in science. If you had described the situation without these scare words, eg

Does a scientist or a medical professional who risks their reputation and livelihood to stand against the majority of his/her peers have more credence than a representative of those peers repeating their joint conclusions?

... you'd have a proper sense of perspective, and the answer would be obvious. You take in all the expert opinions, and you make a decision.

To anyone with the slightest degree of critical thinking, both history and the current situation offers countless valid reasons for skepticism towards, MSM, big pharma, DOD, DAPRA, and other governmental institutions.

Laundry-list of bogeymen. Sorry, bogeypersons.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by boatman61

why is Europe in a panic.. despite the Pfizer shot being claimed as 88% effective against the Delta variant.

... because Delta is an order of magnitude more infectious, and the number of unvaccinated means that there's still a big enough playing field for the Delta to keep circulating and likely mutating some more. Which means a slower opening up, or resumption of some restrictions, vaccine passports etc.

And for the record, I've never called you a lying a**hole. Or a lying anything.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

... because Delta is an order of magnitude more infectious, and the number of unvaccinated means that there's still a big enough playing field for the Delta to keep circulating and likely mutating some more. Which means a slower opening up, or resumption of some restrictions, vaccine passports etc.

And for the record, I've never called you a lying a**hole. Or a lying anything.

Never said 'You' had, but it has been directly stated and indirectly inferred by your side of the argument

The Psychology of Insults
In a verbal society, such as the human one, physical aggression is less often used to settle issues of status: These are mostly deferred to verbal interactions. An insult can thus be interpreted as an attempt to reduce the social status of the recipient and raise the relative status of the insulter.
We live in a period of extreme concern about how we are perceived by others; social psychologists are charting a steady increase in narcissism among college students. There is little consensus about why this is happening, but some scholars believe that the more children are measured on evaluative scales—aptitude tests, IQ scores, and GPA—the more sensitive they are to threats to their social rank.

Roll out the KD analogy...

[GordMay]

Some of us, in this thread & others, appear to be Marxists:

Marx and Engels argued that the prevailing ideas of a particular society are formed by the ruling class, to express and justify their position.

Marx and Engels proposed that the class in control of the material production also controls the “mental production”. While regular citizens are busy with their day-to-day tasks, part of the ruling class take on the function of the “thinkers”, those whom we see as subject matter experts, and actively develop and promote those values and messages. The ruling class also has some control over the dissemination of these ideas. Marx and Engels also argued that these “illusions” about society are upheld by detaching them from the ruling class, as if they exist independently, in a particular time (mainly because the ruling class itself believes these ideas are relevant to all their contemporaries).

The ideas are then presented as universal truths, and as serving the general public interest. As a result, ideas that reinforce and justify the ruling class’s positions, appear as though they have naturally developed, within the society.

However, Marx’s writing had several key limitations:
Firstly, it presents the public as passively accepting the ruling ideas. In reality people are active participants in popular culture, and individuals may choose to accept, or reject, these ideas, and some may also promote or contest them.
Secondly, Marx’s writing does not acknowledge the existence of alternative ideas, which may not dominate, but are still present in most societies, including our CF membership.

Notwithstanding, there's much to be said, for the general thesis; although it doesn't justify a default the polar opposite extremes.

[boatman61]

And here we revert back to the stock North American 'Reds under the Bed' slur of the 1950's.
McCarthyism Live's..
: a mid-20th century political attitude characterized chiefly by opposition to elements held to be subversive and by the use of tactics involving personal attacks on individuals by means of widely publicized indiscriminate allegations especially on the basis of unsubstantiated charges
broadly : defamation of character or reputation through such tactics