Covid vaccine after having covid

[sagablu]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

I think your argument is silly, there is no free rider, just risk acceptance and personal choice.

There are human rights. It does not matter if you are vaccinated or not. As soon as every zombie got his shot there is no reason for any more containment measures.

Everybody got his chance and made his choice, vaccinated are not in danger after the vaccine (otherwise it would be useless) and unvaccinated are not in danger too, as the virus has a survival rate of 99% and they made their bet.

If you want your drugs, you get them, leave the others alone.

Maybe in a couple of years we have to decide to contain all the vaccinated mutants in gated zombie communities to save the human race, who knows?

99% survival, that's actually close to correct it's a bit more than that. However your conclusion is narrow-minded. 20+% of those who had severe disease have long-term consequences. Lung scarring is relatively common, myocarditis, also somewhat common. There were many other long-term effects, I'm sure you've heard of the brain fog.. I know someone personally in their 30s who's now on dialysis because of cytokines storm. This of course does not account for those who get sick infecting others and perpetuating for disease, side effects, and mutations that eventually evade the vaccine. Your comment about zombies is downright insulting and just a method you use to denigrate those who use science to make the decisions instead of conspiracy theories and related nonsense. Will continued responses looking for studies to prove a negative are just a dead end and a method to make you feel like you know something, you don't. Give it up, facts and science win every time.

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by sagablu

99% survival, that's actually close to correct it's a bit more than that. However your conclusion is narrow-minded. 20+% of those who had severe disease have long-term consequences. Lung scarring is relatively common, myocarditis, also somewhat common. There were many other long-term effects, I'm sure you've heard of the brain fog.. I know someone personally in their 30s who's now on dialysis because of cytokines storm. This of course does not account for those who get sick infecting others and perpetuating for disease, side effects, and mutations that eventually evade the vaccine. Your comment about zombies is downright insulting and just a method you use to denigrate those who use science to make the decisions instead of conspiracy theories and related nonsense. Will continued responses looking for studies to prove a negative are just a dead end and a method to make you feel like you know something, you don't. Give it up, facts and science win every time.

I agree, science wins - but it does not apply to propaganda framed as science.

The same side effects are there from the vaccines as they stem from the spike proteines. The long term consequences are yet to come with every shot and there are more people vaccinated than people that had covid, so the problem will be probably in magnitudes with severe allergic overreactions and potentially deaths.

Vaccinated vaccine proponents behave like brainless zombies if you read the statements about rights and all the other ******** above, so it is safe to call them out.

IF it is all true about the "vaccines", they have nothing to fear, so why they continue bullying the others that do not agree with them and have made an educated personal decision - it has to be accepted.

[sagablu]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

I agree, science wins - but it does not apply to propaganda framed as science.

The same side effects are there from the vaccines as they stem from the spike proteines. The long term consequences are yet to come with every shot and there are more people vaccinated than people that had covid, so the problem will be probably in magnitudes with severe allergic overreactions and potentially deaths.

Vaccinated vaccine proponents behave like brainless zombies if you read the statements about rights and all the other ******** above, so it is safe to call them out.

IF it is all true about the "vaccines", they have nothing to fear, so why they continue bullying the others that do not agree with them and have made an educated personal decision - it has to be accepted.

You are not qualified to determine what is propaganda and what is science, clearly anything that doesn't agree with your already made conclusions is propaganda. I regularly speak to the medical director of a major hospital group, my cousin was the head infectious disease doctor at a very well-known specialty hospital, the guy across the street from me ran the covid ward at the local VA. My best friend's sister is an immunologist at Yale University, they are all vaccinated. So what do they know that you don't, everything.

You comment about vaccine side effects the same as spike proteins shows that you have absolutely no knowledge of the immune system, zero. When you get a cold or flu The fatigue is primarily generated by your immune system, not by the virus. So any challenge the immune system will cause fatigue, I felt exactly the same after my covid Maxine as I did with my shingles vaccine. Shingles is not a Corona virus, some people get fatigue from the flu vaccine. What is your made up explanation for that?

You keep saying that it's more people who follow science are zombies, that is just a simple and I do mean simple way of discounting facts to meet your already made up conclusions based on nonsense. Give it up, fax from any reasonable source do not support any of your comments. You just making yourself sound silly now.

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by sagablu

You are not qualified to determine what is propaganda and what is science, clearly anything that doesn't agree with your already made conclusions is propaganda. I regularly speak to the medical director of a major hospital group, my cousin was the head infectious disease doctor at a very well-known specialty hospital, the guy across the street from me ran the covid ward at the local VA. My best friend's sister is an immunologist at Yale University, they are all vaccinated. So what do they know that you don't, everything.

You comment about vaccine side effects the same as spike proteins shows that you have absolutely no knowledge of the immune system, zero. When you get a cold or flu The fatigue is primarily generated by your immune system, not by the virus. So any challenge the immune system will cause fatigue, I felt exactly the same after my covid Maxine as I did with my shingles vaccine. Shingles is not a Corona virus, some people get fatigue from the flu vaccine. What is your made up explanation for that?

You keep saying that it's more people who follow science are zombies, that is just a simple and I do mean simple way of discounting facts to meet your already made up conclusions based on nonsense. Give it up, fax from any reasonable source do not support any of your comments. You just making yourself sound silly now.

Well, it was the science that produced this mess by medling with genetics...

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

I think your argument is silly, there is no free rider, just risk acceptance and personal choice.

There are human rights. It does not matter if you are vaccinated or not. As soon as every zombie got his shot there is no reason for any more containment measures.

Everybody got his chance and made his choice, vaccinated are not in danger after the vaccine (otherwise it would be useless) and unvaccinated are not in danger too, as the virus has a survival rate of 99% and they made their bet.

If you want your drugs, you get them, leave the others alone.

Maybe in a couple of years we have to decide to contain all the vaccinated mutants in gated zombie communities to save the human race, who knows?

It's pointless to carry on any conversation with you. You repeat the same misunderstandings, people take the time to explain where you are wrong, and then you go back to step one.

You are simply wrong. This is not a matter of belief or politics or whatever you want to believe. This is a matter of FACT. Vaccination is not only about protecting the individual. The major benefit of mass vaccination is that it protects everyone. No vaccine is 100% safe. The more chinks in the armour, the less effective mass vaccination is for everyone.

But on the responsibility question, I am amused by folks like you who literally want all the benefits of mass vaccination, but refuse to do your part. It is true that we don't need everyone. Once we get to 75% to 85% we can effectively control spread. So you can safely free-ride on the backs of the rest of us. There are always free-riders in any mass program.

I wonder if you take the same view to social welfare programs, where free-riding is often cited as a reason to restrict peoples' supports. I'd be pleasantly surprised, and impressed, if you do.

[CruisingCouple]

It is now confirmed by a quite large study (larger than a couple of the vaccine trials) that vaccine does absolutely nothing for persons with natural or acquired immunity to SARS-CoV-2. Of course, the study is pre-print non-peer reviewed, but at the same time no CoV-2 vaccine has ever received FDA license either.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....01.21258176v2

Whether or not this is recognized by politicians is another matter, as politicians follow whatever [junk] "science" is convenient to push an agenda.

[Shanachie]

Face it, vaccinated people: You can't fix stupid. So stop wasting your time trying to persuade people who take great joy in being oppositional without having the intellect to understand the issues.



Instead, let nature take its course.



Summer will fade and people will return to the indoors in much of the northern hemisphere. Meanwhile, the more contagious variants will have migrated to various corners of the world where people are not vaccinated.


The experts say there will be a mini-surge of the pandemic in the fall, with serious and deadly cases confined to people who have not been vaccinated.



Vaccinated people? You likely won't even notice it if you're contagious and walking around infecting unvaccinated people.



Don't believe what Dr. Fauci and the others say? Let's see how it plays out. You might just end up like the Arizona cop who spent weeks posting anti-vaccine items on Facebook -- until he caught the disease and died.


We won't miss your uninformed posts, but we'll grieve that you needlessly died or endured a debilitating disease that could have been prevented with a simple shot.


Good luck. You'll likely need it.

[sv_pelagia]

Originally Posted by CruisingCouple

It is now confirmed by a quite large study (larger than a couple of the vaccine trials) that vaccine does absolutely nothing for persons with natural or acquired immunity to SARS-CoV-2. Of course, the study is pre-print non-peer reviewed, but at the same time no CoV-2 vaccine has ever received FDA license either.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....01.21258176v2

Whether or not this is recognized by politicians is another matter, as politicians follow whatever [junk] "science" is convenient to push an agenda.

You are citing a not-yet-reviewed study... always wait until it properly evaluated.

That is, if accuracy is your goal....

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by CruisingCouple

It is now confirmed by a quite large study (larger than a couple of the vaccine trials) that vaccine does absolutely nothing for persons with natural or acquired immunity to SARS-CoV-2. Of course, the study is pre-print non-peer reviewed, but at the same time no CoV-2 vaccine has ever received FDA license either.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....01.21258176v2

Whether or not this is recognized by politicians is another matter, as politicians follow whatever [junk] "science" is convenient to push an agenda.

It's certainly promising. I don't know why you would suggest its findings are somehow inconvenient. If it passes through the crucible of proper peer review, and especially if the results are replicated in other similar studies, then it's a finding that moves our understanding along.

It's not a radical finding though, and one which has been taken into account from the get-go in the public health approach to this pandemic. It would be shocking if natural immunity is not a real thing. Quantifying the benefit (or lack) of layering vaccination onto a previously infected person is good science.

The reason vaccination is preferred is so that 1 out of every 100 people don't have to die. That's the whole reason for the approach we've taken.

This is why I like the European Union's approach to their vaccine passport, where they specifically include three categories:

#1. A person has been vaccinated against COVID-19, or
#2. Has received a recent negative test result, or
#3. Has recovered from the virus.

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

It's pointless to carry on any conversation with you. You repeat the same misunderstandings, people take the time to explain where you are wrong, and then you go back to step one.

You are simply wrong. This is not a matter of belief or politics or whatever you want to believe. This is a matter of FACT. Vaccination is not only about protecting the individual. The major benefit of mass vaccination is that it protects everyone. No vaccine is 100% safe. The more chinks in the armour, the less effective mass vaccination is for everyone.

But on the responsibility question, I am amused by folks like you who literally want all the benefits of mass vaccination, but refuse to do your part. It is true that we don't need everyone. Once we get to 75% to 85% we can effectively control spread. So you can safely free-ride on the backs of the rest of us. There are always free-riders in any mass program.

I wonder if you take the same view to social welfare programs, where free-riding is often cited as a reason to restrict peoples' supports. I'd be pleasantly surprised, and impressed, if you do.

This is absolute nonsense. I don't want unnecessary mass vaccinations, nor do I see any benefit in them, but a risk. So there is no free ride, you cannot expect a "Thank you for vaccinating" from me. This insult is ridiculous. There are people that have preconditions and need to be vaccinated, like the annual flu shot. And there are people not needing and not taking it. Same should apply for C19 and any other disease.

Actually I am more concerned that healthy people may get forced to get unnecessary medication that may cause health issues and even deaths in a couple of years overwhelming the health care system due to gross negligence of the risks on experimental genetic treatments and meddling with the immune system, especially the youth can get damages that may affect future generations.

[Montanan]

Dearest Mike O'Reily,

There becomes Sir, a time to quit with feeding or responding to the Trolls.

There has yet to be developed a cure to Covidioticity; just as there has yet to be developed a fix for Stupidity.

Mike, it comes a day when one has to to call the reasoned discussion an end with those that are beyond reasoning, just at the moderators of this thread must realize it likely is time that this OFF TOPIC subject could be terminated.

Reviewing a substantial percentage of this thread it is evident that it has become a platform for the dumb and dumber.

There are those who will desire to safeguard others to the best of their ability; and those that have chosen to remain at higher risk by not becoming vaccinated.

We the forthright vaccinated person can endeavor to protect the Covidiots by continuing to social distancing, and wearing masks in their presence. That noble, and unselfish practice will aid to the best that we can to mitigate the potential of inadvertently infecting those that have not taken the precautionary action of being inoculated with a vaccine. Inoculating one self will aid in mitigating the risk of adverse health consequences from becoming infected. And it will simultaneously protect themselves and lower their risk of infecting others.

My fellow American Canadians and my most beloved neighbors, I recall John F. Kennedy, Jr.'s statement: "And so my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country." Please we ask of you, become vaccinated.


Please safe guard yourselves, and safeguard others.

Yet there will come the day, when the vaccines become fully approved for use, instead of being provide emergency use authorization AND when the vaccines become full available to everyone including the youth. That is when those that have been fully vaccinated have the moral authority to restrict those that who have not chosen to become vaccinated.

Until the day that the vaccines are approved unconditionally and their supply is no longer a restraint from receiving such, my companies will not require vaccination as a condition for employment or for admission onto our properties as either a customer or a supplier / service person. We will grant waivers for those who have viable and verifiable reasons to not take a vaccine, specifically as to: 1) a demonstrable religious belief constraint: or 2) a verifiable medial limitation to receiving the vaccines. Otherwise my companies will severe ties with any and all persons who have not chosen to safeguard themselves and safeguard their communities.

Choices will be compelled.

Chose wisely.

I have no reason to avail endangering one self or the safety of others. No unvaccinated person will be allowed onto the premises of my companies or onto my private property or onto my boats.

They will be banished, just as my indigenous neighbors would banish the individuals who would disrespect or endanger their tribal members.

One can chose be socially banished. And when you do, you have to deal with such self-induced ostracism.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

... If you want your drugs, you get them, leave the others alone [isolate them].
Maybe in a couple of years we have to decide to contain all the UN-vaccinated mutants in gated zombie communities to save the human race, who knows?

With minor clarifications/corrections , you're not entirely wrong.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by CruisingCouple

It is now confirmed by a quite large study (larger than a couple of the vaccine trials) that vaccine does absolutely nothing for persons with natural or acquired immunity to SARS-CoV-2. Of course, the study is pre-print non-peer reviewed, but at the same time no CoV-2 vaccine has ever received FDA license either.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....01.21258176v2

Whether or not this is recognized by politicians is another matter, as politicians follow whatever [junk] "science" is convenient to push an agenda.
Here ➥ https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3422820

Excerpted from the pre-print Cleveland Clinic study article:
"Conclusions
Individuals who have had SARS-CoV-2 infection are unlikely to benefit from COVID-19 vaccination, and vaccines can be safely prioritized to those who have not been infected before."

Full article ➥ https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....full.pdf+html


What, do you imagine the politician's agenda to be?

[seandepagnier]

none of the vaccines are FDA approved. There is no long-term data on the vaccine. There will be a pill soon which is much easier to take.

covid is not going away, are we going to start requiring mandatory flu shots to travel as well? What about all the other virus I did not test for or get vaccine but still traveled to those countries?

There is no historical precedent and no moral way to require or insist someone inject something into their body, especially now that has been developed in the last few months using technology only a few years old.

Many states are passing laws to protect those who have not vaccinated from discrimination. Most countries do not currently require to travel, you can get a test instead. In the future it is unlikely there will be a requirement.

Other issues we face (soil erosion, phosphate shortage, climate change) to name only a few all pose far greater risks to human life over the next 50 years but are largely ignored. We could have simply ignored this one, and there would still be too many of us.

[GordMay]

CDC COVID-19 Study Shows mRNA Vaccines Reduce Risk of Infection by 91 Percent for Fully Vaccinated People

Vaccination Makes Illness Milder, Shorter for the Few Vaccinated People Who Do Get COVID-19

A new CDC study [1] (HEROES-RECOVER) finds the mRNA COVID-19 vaccines, authorized by the Food and Drug Administration (Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna), reduce the risk of infection by 91 percent, for fully vaccinated people,
This adds to the growing body of real-world evidence of their effectiveness. Importantly, this study also is among the first to show that mRNA vaccination benefits people who get COVID-19, despite being fully vaccinated (14 or more days after dose 2), or partially vaccinated (14 or more days after dose 1 to 13 days after dose 2).

More about ➥ https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2...uce-risks.html

The study:
[1] “Interim Estimates of Vaccine Effectiveness of BNT162b2 and mRNA-1273 COVID-19 Vaccines in Preventing SARS-CoV-2 Infection Among Health Care Personnel, First Responders, and Other Essential and Frontline Workers — Eight U.S. Locations, December 2020–March 2021"
➥ https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/...cid=mm7013e3_w


RECOVER COVID-19 Study ➥ https://medicine.utah.edu/rmcoeh/research/recover/