Covid vaccines: risk vs benefit alarming news

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

So, you don't actually understand what an mRNA vaccine is, or how it works.

I understand both, the mRNA and the Vaccines with alive modified Chimp Flu viruses, where part of their DNA was replaced by C19 genes for the spike proteins and human DNA to cover them and ease the entry and infection of human cells to provoke an immune answer.

If I were in a bio lab in Wuhan, that is exactly what would be necessary to be done to enable a bat / pangolin virus to sneak into a human cell, isn't it - just make it fit, cover it and sneak it in?

I think, GEN manipulations should be banned worldwide, like chemical and nuclear weapons and this labs should be shut down.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

Clever how you say it’s better not to insult but right in the same post insult old people by implying they are destroying the planet! And I bet you don’t even see the irony.

Most of us pro vax people aren’t any more expert regarding how the vaccine works or doesn’t work than the skeptics are so it’s pretty hard to convince anyone either way with a truly science based argument. We all are just regurgitating what those who publish info are choosing to tell us and who knows which “expert” is more right? I don’t have an advanced degree in immunology and I suspect neither do you. So I think the best available argument for everyone getting vaccinated is because even though you may not personally believe you need it, as a group WE need to get rid of this virus snd the only way to do that is for there to be as few unprotected ‘hosts’ walking around as possible. Since covid infections among old people in the US who have been vaccinated are way off their peak and falling, I think that tells us the vaccine is at least somewhat effective in limiting the spread of covid.

I think it’s pretty safe to say the planet will still be here LONG after we are all long gone and so is covid. But if you REALLY need to worry about something I suppose the planet going missing is about as good as anything else. As for trying to justify pitting the young against the old as a justification for not vaxxing, though the talk may be different, I haven’t noticed young people actually doing any more for the planet than old people have. We’re all just people and unfortunately too many, young and old, act in what they perceive as their own self interest rather than for the common good, always pointing at some other boogeyman to justify their actions. Which generation will be the first to break the mold on that? Sadly, I suspect none of the above is the correct answer.

I think your ranting at one of your own here..
Hein is pro-vax..

[CarlF]

"Fully vaccinated cruises" - this is what's coming. Once most people are vaccinated, businesses are going to quickly decide that vaccinated people are more profitable. And their insurance companies will offer discounts for it. As a private business, it's perfectly legal for them to do this - "vaccination" is not a protected class like sex, race, religion, handicap...


By next winter unvaccinated people will find they can't do a lot of things they'd like to do.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/royal-car...114100436.html

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by CarlF

By next winter unvaccinated people will find they can't do a lot of things they'd like to do.

Despite all the ranting now, just about any halfway sensible person will at some point go quiet about it and get the covid vaccine. Like mask wearing, vaccination is such a tiny, insignificant demand, compared to the benefits of compliance (both real and permissions-based), that it's not worth the fuss to oppose.

[HeinSdL]

Originally Posted by CarlF

"Fully vaccinated cruises" - this is what's coming. Once most people are vaccinated, businesses are going to quickly decide that vaccinated people are more profitable. And their insurance companies will offer discounts for it. As a private business, it's perfectly legal for them to do this - "vaccination" is not a protected class like sex, race, religion, handicap...


By next winter unvaccinated people will find they can't do a lot of things they'd like to do.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/royal-car...114100436.html

It's a slippery slope though...

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Despite all the ranting now, just about any halfway sensible person will at some point go quiet about it and get the covid vaccine. Like mask wearing, vaccination is such a tiny, insignificant demand, compared to the benefits of compliance (both real and permissions-based), that it's not worth the fuss to oppose.

Well while you lot across the Pond are mainly programed herd animals and as such like to maintain pecking order by picking on those you consider 'beneath you'.. difference is a threat and must be stamped out.
Here in the Old World things are the opposite.. we celebrate the independent souls which results in a multitude of opinions and resistance to what can be taken as infringement on rights and freedoms.
So you fill yer boots over there..

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Well while you lot across the Pond are mainly programed herd animals and as such like to maintain pecking order by picking on those you consider 'beneath you'.. difference is a threat and must be stamped out.
Here in the Old World things are the opposite.. we celebrate the independent souls which results in a multitude of opinions and resistance to what can be taken as infringement on rights and freedoms.
So you fill yer boots over there..

Well, everyone needs a hobby, I guess. Mine's boating, and a few other fun things; I'm content to leave public health in the hands of my Dr and other experts.

I consider you to be a sensible person at heart, and if your business or pleasure travel requires vaccination... you'll get it.

[HeinSdL]

Originally Posted by boatman61

I think your ranting at one of your own here..
Hein is pro-vax..

Not exactly pro, nor anti, but in any case pro 'I will decide myself what gets injected into my person. Thanks.'

And if that means I don't march to the beat of government and big business, then so be it.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Well, everyone needs a hobby, I guess. Mine's boating, and a few other fun things; I'm content to leave public health in the hands of my Dr and other experts.

I consider you to be a sensible person at heart, and if your business or pleasure travel requires vaccination... you'll get it.

Or.. I could just retire..
I have all I need in Portugal, great beaches, reasonable cost of living, spectacular places in the Sierra de Estrellas, cheap marinas and plenty of anchorages South of where I am..
Good wine, cheap smokes (1/3rd UK), plenty of sun.. hell, it's almost paradise..

[CarlF]

Originally Posted by HeinSdL

It's a slippery slope though...

Nonsense. If public health is a "slippery slope" we slid down it in the 1300's with the Black Death which had widespread quarantines. The US Constitution permits it even when it restricts other Constitutional rights such as freedom of speech or religion.

Protecting public health is one of the most important and universal duties of governments for many centuries.

We fly a yellow flag from the mast when clearing customs to show everyone that our boat is quarantined and should not be approached until "cleared".

Yellow fever, cholera, polio, plague, typhoid, rabies, dypyheria, smallpox and many other diseases have all required quarantines. Because Covid is contagious without symptoms, no government will take chances once a vaccine is available.

Isolating people who could be a health risk to the community is not something new - or even unusual.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Or.. I could just retire..
I have all I need in Portugal, great beaches, reasonable cost of living, spectacular places in the Sierra de Estrellas, cheap marinas and plenty of anchorages South of where I am..
Good wine, cheap smokes (1/3rd UK), plenty of sun.. hell, it's almost paradise..

Mind you.. I did say a while back I am not opposed to being vaccinated perse.. just have no desire for the Bill Gates concoction..
It would be the Oxford jab..
BUY BRITISH..

[HeinSdL]

Originally Posted by CarlF

Nonsense. If public health is a "slippery slope" we slid down it in the 1300's with the Black Death which had widespread quarantines. The US Constitution permits it even when it restricts other Constitutional rights such as freedom of speech or religion.

Protecting public health is one of the most important and universal duties of governments for many centuries.

We fly a yellow flag from the mast when clearing customs to show everyone that our boat is quarantined and should not be approached until "cleared".

Yellow fever, cholera, polio, plague, typhoid, rabies, dypyheria, smallpox and many other diseases have all required quarantines. Because Covid is contagious without symptoms, no government will take chances once a vaccine is available.

Isolating people who could be a health risk to the community is not something new - or even unusual.

Public health is not the slippery slope I was alluding to. It's more our collective singing out of big business' hymn book. If it's good for big business, the government will ensure it is done, which in this case is to get us back on our feet and to get us to do what we do best: to consume.

If the government truly, truly cared about our long term health if would take many more steps which it does not because it would not please exactly this very powerful group. So for sure it's the government's role to look after our health (well actually it is first and foremost the individual's responsibility) but I would still keep an eye on the agenda here and question a bit what is going on.

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by CarlF

Nonsense. If public health is a "slippery slope" we slid down it in the 1300's with the Black Death which had widespread quarantines. The US Constitution permits it even when it restricts other Constitutional rights such as freedom of speech or religion.

Protecting public health is one of the most important and universal duties of governments for many centuries.

We fly a yellow flag from the mast when clearing customs to show everyone that our boat is quarantined and should not be approached until "cleared".

Yellow fever, cholera, polio, plague, typhoid, rabies, dypyheria, smallpox and many other diseases have all required quarantines. Because Covid is contagious without symptoms, no government will take chances once a vaccine is available.

Isolating people who could be a health risk to the community is not something new - or even unusual.

Q-flag and quarantine, or even a test is an inconvenience only. When you don't have it, you are not a thread. There is no reason for seggregation or isolation of non-vaccined people.

I guess, even vaxed will go through Quarantine and testing, because they still can spread it.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by HeinSdL

Public health is not the slippery slope I was alluding to. It's more our collective singing out of big business' hymn book. If it's good for big business, the government will ensure it is done, which in this case is to get us back on our feet and to get us to do what we do best: to consume.

Well, for most of us, that's the system we're in... I also believe that, given a straight-up choice, the vast majority of people would like to set the clock back to 2019... so I think we all are looking at the same page in the hymn book.

Not that there isn't room for improvement... and I think COVID opened our eyes up a bit to the benefits and possibilities if we backed just a little bit off of the work/consume treadmill.

[CarlF]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

Q-flag and quarantine, or even a test is an inconvenience only. When you don't have it, you are not a thread. There is no reason for seggregation or isolation of non-vaccined people.

I guess, even vaxed will go through Quarantine and testing, because they still can spread it.

The reason will be money. Unvaccinated people are an added expense for a business or government to manage. Taxpayers and insurance companies are not going to want to keep picking up the tab to repeatedly test the few people who don't want to be vaccinated

It's likely that testing will soon confirm that vaccinated people hardly ever are infected by Covid. The same is not true of testing which has quite a large false negative rate.

At that point, testing will no longer be considered "good enough". And governments will not be interested in the logistics and cost of testing and quarantining when it's simpler and cheaper to just require a vaccine.

Of course, some people will still argue this isn't fair - but the world won't be listening.