Covid vaccines: risk vs benefit alarming news

[Copacabana]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Yes breakthrough has repeatedly and will continue to happen.

When the effectiveness of a vaccine is less than 100% there will be instandes of breakthrough.

The US FDA's stated goal to provide approval of a SARS-CoV-2 vaccine has always been 50%, which means that fully half of the vaccinated persons would still be expected to remain to become infected if exposed to a significant degree. To date the vaccines have proven to have much higher efficacy than the 50% regulatory threshold for allowing emergency use authorization.

Keep practicing social distancing, mask wearing, washing hands, etc. even when vaccinated. One's risk of COVID-19 disease is reduced by vaccinations but there is still significant risk.

Stay safe, stay healthy.

This is true, but the good news is that all of the vaccines have proven to be 100% effective against severe disease and hospitalization or death from Covid.

[Thumbs Up]

Originally Posted by Copacabana

This is true, but the good news is that all of the vaccines have proven to be 100% effective against severe disease and hospitalization or death from Covid.

Are you trying to be sarcastic? None of the trials even evaluated efficacy against severe disease, hospitalization or death from Covid. None of these so called vaccines have even been approved. Please don't get me started. Please check your so called facts before posting rubbish.

[Mike OReilly]

https://www.livescience.com/covid-19...explained.html

Moderna, Pfizer and Johnson & Johnson also measured how their vaccines performed against severe disease (which meant severely affected heart or respiratory rate, the need for supplemental oxygen, ICU admission, respiratory failure or death).

All three vaccines were 100% effective at preventing severe disease six weeks after the first dose (for Moderna) or seven weeks after the first dose (for Pfizer and Johnson & Johnson, the latter of which requires only one dose). Zero vaccinated people in any of the trials were hospitalized or died of COVID-19 after the vaccines had fully taken effect.

[Copacabana]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

Are you trying to be sarcastic? None of the trials even evaluated efficacy against severe disease, hospitalization or death from Covid. None of these so called vaccines have even been approved. Please don't get me started. Please check your so called facts before posting rubbish.

Have you looked at the results from the trials? Do you understand what they mean by "efficacy" of a vaccine? Even the Coronavac vaccine that was tested in Brazil was 100% effective against developing severe symptoms of the disease, although the trial concluded it was 56% "effective" (ie. against infection).

[sagablu]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

https://www.livescience.com/covid-19...explained.html

So Mike,

So you're expecting us to believe the well-reasoned and researched conclusion of experts in the field over some guy cherry picking facts and with the clear political agenda on YouTube? I mean who in this day and age makes a decision is like that?

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Copacabana

This is true, but the good news is that all of the vaccines have proven to be 100% effective against severe disease and hospitalization or death from Covid.

+1 Spot on.



My wife and I just got our second jab four hours ago. No adverse symptoms, noted even less irritation at the point of inoculation then the first jab.

By April 1, all Montanans over the age 16 will be availed access to the vaccines, of course it will take two or three more months to likely have gained complete vaccination of all that are not being hesitant receiving the vaccines. By March month end, the State will have mostly progressed through its first inoculations of all the prioritization categories.

Montana's population is 1,030,000

406,000 doses have been administered
158,000 have now been fully vaccinated.

Active COVID cases in the state are at 1,003. The COVID-19 death total in the state is at 1,414 people (0.14% of the population). Statewide active COVID-19 hospitalizations are at 49 people. The state has reported 4,716 COVID-19 hospitalizations throughout the pandemic (0.46% of the population). Statewide there have been 103,060 COVID-19 cases reported (10% of the population). Of those people infected 100,643 are reported as recovered, meaning they meet the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention guidelines for a person with COVID-19 to be released from isolation. The statewide testing total has reached 1,163,547.


In my county, [Lake] 25% have been fully vaccinated and 41% have received the first of two doses. There be advantages to living within the borders of an Native American Reservation which native population is provided the highest priority over all other population categories, except the healthcare workers.

[Montanan]

Okay, well here is yet another reason to get vaccinated.

Note, I didn't say a good reason.

Get a COVID vaccine, and get a free Krispy Kreme doughnut every single day this year.

While some Americans are still taking a “wait and see” approach on getting one of the available COVID-19 vaccines, Krispy Kreme is trying to sweeten the deal by offering people who get vaccinated a free doughnut every day for the rest of the year. “Starting today, bring your Vaccine Card to a Krispy Kreme shop and get 1 FREE Original Glazed doughnut,” the pastry and coffee chain tweeted on Monday.

Well, eating a glazed donut every day might add to weight gain and obesity has been shown to be a major co-morbidity factor.

Maybe the local bars will follow suit, a free beer.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

None of the trials even evaluated efficacy against severe disease, hospitalization or death from Covid. None of these so called vaccines have even been approved.

I won't bore you with links. Please tell us- how does it feel to be so completely wrong about the above?

[Thumbs Up]

I admit that I haven't looked at the J&J and Astra Zeneca trials. (so I should have said "none of the trials that I looked at") Pfizer's efficacy endpoint was preventing PCR diagnosis (45 cycles) of asymptomatic COVID in young healthy individuals. They didn't give us the raw data on why 371 people were excluded from their analysis. The trials were not designed to assess whether the vaccines can interrupt viral transmission, rates of hospitalizations, ICU cases, and deaths.

It was stated that "all of the vaccines have proven to be 100% effective against severe disease and hospitalization or death from Covid" And I am confident about calling BS on that statement.

But yes, please bore us with some links but please no anecdotal sources or industry funded "Science" opinion sites. The amount of PR and propaganda put out by the CDC, WHO, FDA, and big Pharma funded media is staggering. I have said on here many times to show us the science. A lot of you have this propaganda thing dead backwards. I am not going to try again for a drawn out discussion of this on here since everyone's minds are already made up. But I might pop in here and there to try and set the record straight. No matter where you got your "facts" though, a claim of 100% effectiveness is utter BS.
https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/01/04...-the-raw-data/
https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom...ll-save-lives/

[Copacabana]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

I admit that I haven't looked at the J&J and Astra Zeneca trials. (so I should have said "none of the trials that I looked at") Pfizer's efficacy endpoint was preventing PCR diagnosis (45 cycles) of asymptomatic COVID in young healthy individuals. They didn't give us the raw data on why 371 people were excluded from their analysis. The trials were not designed to assess whether the vaccines can interrupt viral transmission, rates of hospitalizations, ICU cases, and deaths.

It was stated that "all of the vaccines have proven to be 100% effective against severe disease and hospitalization or death from Covid" And I am confident about calling BS on that statement.

But yes, please bore us with some links but please no anecdotal sources or industry funded "Science" opinion sites. The amount of PR and propaganda put out by the CDC, WHO, FDA, and big Pharma funded media is staggering. I have said on here many times to show us the science. A lot of you have this propaganda thing dead backwards. I am not going to try again for a drawn out discussion of this on here since everyone's minds are already made up. But I might pop in here and there to try and set the record straight. No matter where you got your "facts" though, a claim of 100% effectiveness is utter BS.
https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/01/04...-the-raw-data/

How are you Thumbs up? I hope all is well. Let's keep the tone friendly, OK?

There's your problem Thumbs up. The data comes from the drug company that tested the vaccine- data which is peer reviewed. But don't let science get in the way of your opinions. I take it you don't trust these sources or science.

Sorry, but I stand by my claim. So far, the trials have shown that the vaccines are 100% effective against severe symptoms leading to hospitalization and death. Moreover, most of them have been administered by now in the millions. Have you seen any data on a vaccinated person ending up in hospital or dying? I haven't.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Copacabana

How are you Thumbs up? I hope all is well. Let's keep the tone friendly, OK?

There's your problem Thumbs up. The data comes from the drug company that tested the vaccine- data which is peer reviewed. But don't let science get in the way of your opinions. I take it you don't trust these sources or science.

Sorry, but I stand by my claim. So far, the trials have shown that the vaccines are 100% effective against severe symptoms leading to hospitalization and death. Moreover, most of them have been administered by now in the millions. Have you seen any data on a vaccinated person ending up in hospital or dying? I haven't.

I take it you mean excluding the ones who died of or ended up hospitalized from suspected side effects.

[Copacabana]

Originally Posted by boatman61

I take it you mean excluding the ones who died of or ended up hospitalized from suspected side effects.

I take your point about vaccine reactions, but I was specifically talking about the efficacy of the vaccines to prevent serious symptoms of Covid 19 leading to hospitalizations or death.

[sagablu]

Heard that 100% number, I cannot find good data that supports it. This or any vaccine will likely not be 100% effective in the long term. it's more likely to end up to be about 98% effective. This is not a fault of the vaccine, some people are immunocompromised and will not generate sufficient immune response. They were going to be a few who have vaccinated and die anyway if exposed.
To Look at it is another way, they won't die if everyone gets vaccinated and the transmission end regardless of their immune response. So it's a different path to the same thing, if everyone gets vaccinated the deaths and severe disease from covid end. Very excited to be getting my second shot this weekend.

As to those you wish to deny clear and settled science because it does not fit a distorted worldview, I have a solution for that. After sufficient time has passed and everyone has had an opportunity to get the vaccine, should those people contract Covid, You're on your own. Allow insurance companies to deny medical claims you to lack of ," due care". Meaning not everyone should have to pay for that person stupidity. If they're so sure they're right, then it should not be a problem. Right?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by sagablu

Heard that 100% number, I cannot find good data that supports it. This or any vaccine will likely not be 100% effective in the long term. it's more likely to end up to be about 98% effective. This is not a fault of the vaccine, some people are immunocompromised and will not generate sufficient immune response. They were going to be a few who have vaccinated and die anyway if exposed.
To Look at it is another way, they won't die if everyone gets vaccinated and the transmission end regardless of their immune response. So it's a different path to the same thing, if everyone gets vaccinated the deaths and severe disease from covid end. Very excited to be getting my second shot this weekend.

As to those you wish to deny clear and settled science because it does not fit a distorted worldview, I have a solution for that. After sufficient time has passed and everyone has had an opportunity to get the vaccine, should those people contract Covid, You're on your own. Allow insurance companies to deny medical claims you to lack of ," due care". Meaning not everyone should have to pay for that person stupidity. If they're so sure they're right, then it should not be a problem. Right?

Sure.. no problem for me but Europe is going to lose a lot of tax payers..

Only 36% of the surveyed Europeans strongly agree with the statement that vaccines are safe. Posed the question whether respondents would be willing to be vaccinated if the vaccine was found to be safe and effective and provided free-of-charge, only between 44% and 66% answered in the affirmative. Moreover, a separate poll in France found that only 40% of French people want the Covid-19 vaccine.

Poll after poll conducted across Europe suggest very large numbers of Europeans have serious qualms about the safety of vaccines and potential short- and long-term adverse effects. They also voice concern about the speed with which vaccines went through the clinical development process.

[Thumbs Up]

Originally Posted by Copacabana

How are you Thumbs up? I hope all is well. Let's keep the tone friendly, OK?

There's your problem Thumbs up. The data comes from the drug company that tested the vaccine- data which is peer reviewed. But don't let science get in the way of your opinions. I take it you don't trust these sources or science.

Sorry, but I stand by my claim. So far, the trials have shown that the vaccines are 100% effective against severe symptoms leading to hospitalization and death. Moreover, most of them have been administered by now in the millions. Have you seen any data on a vaccinated person ending up in hospital or dying? I haven't.

Didn't mean to come off as unfriendly, sorry for that. I believe in the scientific method but do not think that we should trust convicted felon corporations and I know that they can and do manipulate the science.
I posted a link before of the 1700+ people who have died after being administered a COVID vaccine. Here it is again:https://medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfi...ID19)&DIED=Yes