Covid vaccines: risk vs benefit alarming news

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by sagablu

So Mike,

So you're expecting us to believe the well-reasoned and researched conclusion of experts in the field over some guy cherry picking facts and with the clear political agenda on YouTube? I mean who in this day and age makes a decision is like that?

I don't know what link you followed, but mine was to a very well established science journalism site which referenced the actual studies. And it was written by a writer named: Anna Nowogrodzki, which I doubt is "some guy."

So, your post is wrong on every count. Pretty impressive.

[Thumbs Up]

If you study up on relative risk reduction vs absolute risk reduction and NNTV (number needed to treat) a different picture is painted. We have a flawed system for determining adverse vaccine reactions and deaths. A study reported that less than 1% get reported. Long term adverse effects are still an unknown but the short term adverse effects (including deaths) can hardly be denied. https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4471/rr-0
I didn't see any of that mentioned in the the Nowogrodzki article nor any mention or link to any real science. It was a very unbalanced article. Basically an advertisement for the so called vaccines (also known as propaganda). Is this how you follow the science? They haven't even released all of the trial data (which should be independently analyzed). Did I mention that Pfizer is a convicted felon? Why should they be trusted?

[ahun]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I don't know what link you followed, but mine was to a very well established science journalism site which referenced the actual studies. And it was written by a writer named: Anna Nowogrodzki, which I doubt is "some guy."

So, your post is wrong on every count. Pretty impressive.

There is some fact check needed here. Or more like reading comprehension... 😁

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

I posted a link before of the 1700+ people who have died after being administered a COVID vaccine. Here it is again:https://medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfi...ID19)&DIED=Yes

Have you read ANY of those reports? Some are family reported (not medical records), many (most?) are incomplete, many were people already in serious decline, getting only palliative care. Some were already on a DNR order. There was one oldie with a positive COVID diagnosis AND symptoms, but they vaccinated anyway, sort of as a Hail Mary. One oldie who caught COVID days after being vaccinated (eg little time for immunity to build). No post-mortems noted, even when a 25 yr old died 20 days after a problem-free vaccination. And so on.

In other words, poor data. Often as bad or worse correlation to vaccination as the beloved and celebrated motorcycle accident/COVID death.

So, sorry - that link is not proof that 1700+ people have been killed BY a COVID vaccine.

[Thumbs Up]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Have you read ANY of those reports? Some are family reported (not medical records), many (most?) are incomplete, many were people already in serious decline, getting only palliative care. Some were already on a DNR order. There was one oldie with a positive COVID diagnosis AND symptoms, but they vaccinated anyway, sort of as a Hail Mary. One oldie who caught COVID days after being vaccinated (eg little time for immunity to build). No post-mortems noted, even when a 25 yr old died 20 days after a problem-free vaccination. And so on.

In other words, poor data. Often as bad or worse correlation to vaccination as the beloved and celebrated motorcycle accident/COVID death.

So, sorry - that link is not proof that 1700+ people have been killed BY a COVID vaccine.

I have read some of them (and impressed that you are too now!)and a lot of those deaths seem undeniable. (of course not all of them, but who here has heard about any of them?) I had already said that the reporting system is flawed. Well, that link is the reporting system. (that is the CDC/FDA VAERS reporting system data) I searched for the deaths. You can also search serious adverse events. You can add a couple of zeros to all of those numbers that you get because less than 1% of these events will be reported. Of course there is no proof because they make sure of that. If you want proof you are going to have to do your own research, you probably won't find it on a boating forum.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Have you read ANY of those reports? Some are family reported (not medical records), many (most?) are incomplete, many were people already in serious decline, getting only palliative care. Some were already on a DNR order. There was one oldie with a positive COVID diagnosis AND symptoms, but they vaccinated anyway, sort of as a Hail Mary. One oldie who caught COVID days after being vaccinated (eg little time for immunity to build). No post-mortems noted, even when a 25 yr old died 20 days after a problem-free vaccination. And so on.

In other words, poor data. Often as bad or worse correlation to vaccination as the beloved and celebrated motorcycle accident/COVID death.

So, sorry - that link is not proof that 1700+ people have been killed BY a COVID vaccine.

You have to see the double standards here though - EVERY Death is a Covid Death irrelevant if it wipes through a Nursing home taking people about to die or a heart attack patient that tests positive then has a heart attack (would have had it anyway), yet with the vaccine if you get it and die 2 days later even though you were very fit and healthy it has nothing to do with the vaccine.

[mat jam]

I am utterly disgusted at the ignorance in this thread - which made me post after so long - at posts that may lead innocent people to do something from which there is no going back.

I have many family members who are doctors as well as many friends. I also have an insight into the who, cdc, etc. And if you remember my last post warning of an event around the corner in 2019 - now how would i have known that - oh - it must have been the agreement most countries signed on for to participate in this fraud. Is there a virus? Well not the one that most of you believe. And no it was not naturally occurring. No one has seen a virus. It is not what you think it is based on what you are being told. A lot of evidence that is suppressed to suggst it was better hygiene rather than salk for the improved numbers to past reasons for shots. And also that soldiers being vaccinatd was the cause of the event a hundred years ago. All of this is well documented as is the real cause of the aids epidemic.

Someone derided the scientist as a vet. Well did it occur to you most pandemics were carrued from rodents, animals, etc.

If you listen to the people who are the most qualified - they warn against getting the shot(s). If you have gotten a shot - good for you - you will be reminded of your decision in the not too distant future of your GREAT choice.

[HeinSdL]

Maybe a good time to just close this thread? It's not going anywhere anyway, has little to do with cruising and only detracts from the overall quality of the cruisers community.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

Didn't mean to come off as unfriendly, sorry for that. I believe in the scientific method but do not think that we should trust convicted felon corporations and I know that they can and do manipulate the science.
I posted a link before of the 1700+ people who have died after being administered a COVID vaccine. Here it is again:https://medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfi...ID19)&DIED=Yes

Virtually all the experts in the field, work for government health agencies, universities, or pharmaceutical companies, all of whom you misstrust.
Thank dog, you've found the one beacon of truth, in this corrupt world, the NVI.

The Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine is 85% protective against COVID-19 death
A preprint study [1], by a team at the University of Bristol, found the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine was 71.4% effective in preventing hospitalizations, and the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine was 80.4% effective in preventing hospitalizations, in patients well into their 80s.
The investigators found that one dose of the Pfizer vaccine was 57% to 61% effective in preventing symptomatic COVID-19 after 4 weeks and that the AstraZeneca vaccine was 60% to 73% effective.
Two doses of the Pfizer vaccine were about 85% to 90% effective against symptomatic illness. It is too early to assess the effect of two doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine, because second doses haven't yet been offered in England.

“New data show vaccines reduce severe COVID-19 in older adults”
New data show both Pfizer-BioNTech and Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccines significantly reduce severe COVID-19 in older adults.
➥ https://www.gov.uk/government/news/n...n-older-adults

[1] “Early effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccination with BNT162b2 mRNA vaccine and ChAdOx1 adenovirus vector vaccine on symptomatic disease, hospitalisations and mortality in older adults in England”
➥ https://khub.net/documents/135939561...c-88979fc2cc1b

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by GordMay

... A preprint study [1], by a team at the University of Bristol, found the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine was 71.4% effective in preventing hospitalizations, and the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine was 80.4% effective in preventing hospitalizations, in patients well into their 80s...
... and that the AstraZeneca vaccine was 60% to 73% effective ...

BREAKING NEWS!

In a statement today, the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) said it had been informed by the Data and Safety Monitoring Board (DSMB) of concerns that AstraZeneca “may have provided an incomplete view of the efficacy data”.
The NIAID statement did not provide further details on its concerns.
The message comes hours after AstraZeneca reported, on Monday, that its COVID vaccine provided strong protection among adults of all ages in it’s US study.

“NIAID Statement on AstraZeneca Vaccine” [March 23, 2021]
➥ https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news...zeneca-vaccine

[ol1970]

I’m not sure why people get so fired up at this subject. I sort of look at this like people who don’t wear helmets when riding their motorcycles. This is simply thinning of the herd and is healthy overall for society. No need to get testy over things as it will keep the anchorages less crowded!

[sagablu]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I don't know what link you followed, but mine was to a very well established science journalism site which referenced the actual studies. And it was written by a writer named: Anna Nowogrodzki, which I doubt is "some guy."

So, your post is wrong on every count. Pretty impressive.

Mike,

Your post was spot on, my post was thick with sarcasm. You had made a well reasoned point and I took it as an opportunity to make fun of those who reject the knowledge of experts as you postes over crap they find on YouTube. Sorry if I was misunderstood

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by UFO

You have to see the double standards here though - EVERY Death is a Covid Death irrelevant if it wipes through a Nursing home taking people about to die or a heart attack patient that tests positive then has a heart attack (would have had it anyway), yet with the vaccine if you get it and die 2 days later even though you were very fit and healthy it has nothing to do with the vaccine.

I didn't find one death in my brief scan that was a "perfectly healthy fit "person who died 2 days after vaccination. Not saying it isn't possible, but if it is, they seem to make up very few of that 1700.

I have also read some of the death reports attributed to COVID, and in addition to being better-sourced records, it was usually pretty clear that a person had contracted COVID, developed the symptoms, and died from them; the viral pneumonia, organ failures and other COVID complications were usually listed as comorbidities (leading less scrupulous people to claim "they died of something else!")

So, it's tough to see "double standards" when the data are different as night and day. Of course, for good measure you can finish up with a fat dollop of conspiracy like T-Up:

You can add a couple of zeros to all of those numbers that you get because less than 1% of these events will be reported. Of course there is no proof because they make sure of that.

[sagablu]

Originally Posted by mat jam

I am utterly disgusted at the ignorance in this thread - which made me post after so long - at posts that may lead innocent people to do something from which there is no going back.

I have many family members who are doctors as well as many friends. I also have an insight into the who, cdc, etc. And if you remember my last post warning of an event around the corner in 2019 - now how would i have known that - oh - it must have been the agreement most countries signed on for to participate in this fraud. Is there a virus? Well not the one that most of you believe. And no it was not naturally occurring. No one has seen a virus. It is not what you think it is based on what you are being told. A lot of evidence that is suppressed to suggst it was better hygiene rather than salk for the improved numbers to past reasons for shots. And also that soldiers being vaccinatd was the cause of the event a hundred years ago. All of this is well documented as is the real cause of the aids epidemic.

Someone derided the scientist as a vet. Well did it occur to you most pandemics were carrued from rodents, animals, etc.

If you listen to the people who are the most qualified - they warn against getting the shot(s). If you have gotten a shot - good for you - you will be reminded of your decision in the not too distant future of your GREAT choice.

So let's see, no one has seen a virus, that's about his false as the sky is some color other than blue. Vaccines caused Aids. And the whole world is in some conspiracy for some unknown reason. Clearly that makes sense I mean what country wouldn't want medical systems too get overwhelmed and have large amounts of tax paying citizens die.

I vote this is the thread winner for the most insane, baseless, statements in one post. Anyone with me?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by sagablu

Heard that 100% number, I cannot find good data that supports it. This or any vaccine will likely not be 100% effective in the long term. it's more likely to end up to be about 98% effective. This is not a fault of the vaccine, some people are immunocompromised and will not generate sufficient immune response. They were going to be a few who have vaccinated and die anyway if exposed.
To Look at it is another way, they won't die if everyone gets vaccinated and the transmission end regardless of their immune response. So it's a different path to the same thing, if everyone gets vaccinated the deaths and severe disease from covid end. Very excited to be getting my second shot this weekend.

As to those you wish to deny clear and settled science because it does not fit a distorted worldview, I have a solution for that. After sufficient time has passed and everyone has had an opportunity to get the vaccine, should those people contract Covid, You're on your own. Allow insurance companies to deny medical claims you to lack of ," due care". Meaning not everyone should have to pay for that person stupidity. If they're so sure they're right, then it should not be a problem. Right?

Originally Posted by ol1970

I’m not sure why people get so fired up at this subject. I sort of look at this like people who don’t wear helmets when riding their motorcycles. This is simply thinning of the herd and is healthy overall for society. No need to get testy over things as it will keep the anchorages less crowded!

Motor cycle helmets came into being to save scraping brains off the roads..
Helmets are tested to speeds between 13 to 21mph and are no protection from brain injury and death from direct impact at those speeds.. and at higher speeds they contain the mess really well.