Covid vaccines: risk vs benefit alarming news

[boatman61]

Hey.. Be grateful.. if it weren't for the likes of me this thread would have devolved into a convention of Canuck leftie cancel culture 'gurus' and a mutual back slapping club..
Someone gotta introduce some controversies..

[Thumbs Up]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

I didn't find one death in my brief scan that was a "perfectly healthy fit "person who died 2 days after vaccination. Not saying it isn't possible, but if it is, they seem to make up very few of that 1700.

I narrowed the search for you. Here is 59 cases below age 60 that died the day of or the next day after the injection. Purely coincidence?
https://medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfi...ID19)&DIED=Yes
As for under reporting to VAERS, read this:
The FDA has even conceded to the fact that the VAERS system is highly under-representative of the number of adverse events of which vaccine recipients actually suffer. FDA statistics indicate that the majority of VAERS reports are made by doctors. However, in 1993, a former FDA commissioner wrote in the Journal of the American Medical Association that one study showed that “only about 1 percent of serious events” attributable to drug reactions are reported to the FDA,[409] and other studies have estimated that physicians only report approximately 10% of events related to a vaccine’s administration.[410] Moreover, the NVIC presents additional support for the proposition that reports made by doctors to VAERS represent only a small fraction of the vaccine-related injuries and deaths occurring in the U.S. every year. A 1994 NVIC study of 159 doctor offices in seven states found that only 28 out of 159 doctors ( 18%) surveyed indicated that they submit reports to the government (to any federal agency, such as the FDA, CDC or any health department) when a child suffers a serious health problem following their hepB immunization. In New York, only one doctor out of 40 surveyed reported vaccine related adverse events to any governmental agency. This finding suggests that 97.5% of vaccine related deaths and disabilities go unreported in this greatly populated and vaccinated state. As found in New York, data obtained from the six other states surveyed revealed that few physicians, if at all, report, to any federal agency, whether it be the FDA, CDC, or a local health departmenthttps://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/h...=2&isAllowed=y
With all this blind trust in the FDA/CDC vax reccomendations I am surprised that you Canadians aren't also giving the Heb B jab at birth.
By the way, both Pfizer and J&J are convicted felons. The FDA has a revolving door relationship with the corporations and the CDC itself is a drug company. Please don't accuse me of spreading misinformation and propaganda, that is the realm of the drug industry and it's regulators.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

Helmet or no helmet, you’re right that almost nobody will survive an impact with a solid object at speeds most of us drive/ride. But in a crash that starts when you’re riding faster than 21mph, if you don’t collide directly with a truck or stone wall, etc. hopefully your head will only be struck a glancing blow and by the time you slide down the road 100’ or so before you hit your head on another object or the curb, you’ll likely be at a speed where the helmet can be the difference maker.

Yes indeed, a helmet will be almost useless in a direct impact even at relatively low speeds. But that's only one form of bike collision. As you say, in most cases the rider will end up off the bike and either sliding or tumbling. In the later case (tumble) a helmet could definitely be the difference between life or death, or to prevent brain damage.

But the real benefit of a helmet and face shield is that it prevents the road grit, rocks and big bugs from smashing into your head and face. Many a time I've been riding down the road and WHAM! I get hit with a small stone or even a big bee or dragonfly. Without a helmet or shield some of these hits would likely have sent me tumbling.

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

This is where helmet wearing differs from getting vaccinated to help stop a pandemic. By getting the jabs you vastly decrease the likelihood of you transmitting the virus and that helps everyone else around you, and even those far away.

And this is the simple fact that some here can't seem to grasp. The public health measures, including getting vaccinated, are less about protecting you directly, and more about protecting your neighbour.

So it is nothing like wearing a helmet, or not. The apt motorcycle analogy would be more like: someone racing through a crowded downtown street full of pedestrians, blowing all the red lights and stop signs vs driving at a safe speed and following the traffic signs.

[boatman61]

So.. after more than a year into this 'pandemic' scientists admit the chances of eradicating Covid are quote "as close to zero as makes no difference".
A conclusion I had reached this time last year..

[Montanan]

Lest we not forget how Jefferson and Franklin Helped End Smallpox in America

https://www.governing.com/context/Ho...n-America.html

Select snipets:

As the world eagerly awaits a vaccine for the coronavirus, 200 years ago a smallpox cure struggled to gain acceptance. This is how our founding fathers helped promote the medical breakthrough that saved countless lives.
The great scourge of Thomas Jefferson’s era (1743-1826) was smallpox. Historians have estimated that perhaps as many as 2 billion people have died of smallpox in recorded history. That’s a pretty arbitrary figure, but it certainly indicates how serious the problem was. Modern epidemiology has not only eliminated smallpox as a threat to civilization but has been engaged in a protracted debate about whether to snuff it out altogether once and for all, or to keep a tiny bit of it alive in a handful of tightly secured vials in case we need to study it in the face of other disease epidemics. It was officially declared eradicated in 1980.

For most of human history, you either got it or you didn’t and then you either survived it or you didn’t. George Washington was infected by smallpox in Barbados in 1751. He survived, and though he was slightly disfigured, he was thereafter immune to the disease. It is possible that this early brush with smallpox saved the American Revolution 20 years later. In 18th-century Europe, 400,000 people died annually of smallpox.

By the time Jefferson was born in 1743, there was an experimental inoculation procedure, but it was quite dangerous and therefore highly controversial. The idea was to give healthy individuals a very tiny amount of actual smallpox under quarantine and very carefully controlled conditions and simply hope that the person’s immune system would be able to fight it off. Survival would immunize that individual for life. The procedure required many weeks of quarantine, fasting, puking, and rest, followed by a very light diet through convalescence. John Adams wrote a fascinating account of his own inoculation in 1764. He was 28 years old. Young Thomas Jefferson’s first journey out of his native Virginia was to Philadelphia in 1766 to be inoculated. He would have undertaken the procedure in Williamsburg or Norfolk had it been available. He made the long journey (eight to 10 days in either direction) because he wanted to protect himself from the disease and study the procedure at the same time for possible incorporation into his own community at Monticello. With his characteristic taciturnity about personal things, Jefferson did not leave us a detailed account of the medical procedure, which required prolonged isolation, personal discipline and a great deal of patience.

. . .

America’s greatest exemplar of the Enlightenment, Benjamin Franklin, became a passionate advocate of the procedure after his first son Franky died of smallpox on Nov. 21, 1736, at the age of four. Because Franklin was known to be a friend to inoculation, rumors spread in Philadelphia that Franky had died from the procedure. To set the record straight, the grieving father wrote an article in the Pennsylvania Gazette on Dec. 30, 1736: He had “intended to get [Francis] inoculated as soon as he should have recovered sufficient strength from a flux with which he had been long afflicted.” Franklin assured the public that his son "received the distemper in the common way of infection." In 1774, Franklin, who was an indefatigable creator of associations, societies, clubs and public institutions, including volunteer fire departments and lending libraries, established the Society for Inoculating the Poor Gratis to help the poor people of Philadelphia have access to inoculation. In his famous autobiography, Franklin wrote: "In 1736 I lost one of my sons, a fine boy of four years old, by the smallpox taken in the common way. I long regretted bitterly and still regret that I had not given it to him by inoculation. This I mention for the sake of the parents who omit that operation, on the supposition that they should never forgive themselves if a child died under it.”


Letter from Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Waterhouse, 25 December 1800

To Benjamin Waterhouse
Washington Dec. 25. 1800.
Sir
I received last night, and have read with great satisfaction your pamphlet on the subject of the kine-pox, and pray you to accept my thanks for the communication of it. I had before attended to your publications on the subject in the newspapers, and took much interest in the result of the experiments you were making. every friend of humanity must look with pleasure on this discovery, by which one evil the more is withdrawn from the condition of man: and contemplating the possibility that future improvements & discoveries, may still more & more lessen the catalogue of evils. in this line of proceeding you deserve well of your country and I pray you to accept my portion of the tribute due you, and assurances of the high consideration & respect with which I am Sir

Your most obedt. humble servt

Th: Jefferson

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Lest we not forget how Jefferson and Franklin Helped End Smallpox in America

https://www.governing.com/context/Ho...n-America.html

Select snipets:

As the world eagerly awaits a vaccine for the coronavirus, 200 years ago a smallpox cure struggled to gain acceptance. This is how our founding fathers helped promote the medical breakthrough that saved countless lives.
The great scourge of Thomas Jefferson’s era (1743-1826) was smallpox. Historians have estimated that perhaps as many as 2 billion people have died of smallpox in recorded history. That’s a pretty arbitrary figure, but it certainly indicates how serious the problem was. Modern epidemiology has not only eliminated smallpox as a threat to civilization but has been engaged in a protracted debate about whether to snuff it out altogether once and for all, or to keep a tiny bit of it alive in a handful of tightly secured vials in case we need to study it in the face of other disease epidemics. It was officially declared eradicated in 1980.

For most of human history, you either got it or you didn’t and then you either survived it or you didn’t. George Washington was infected by smallpox in Barbados in 1751. He survived, and though he was slightly disfigured, he was thereafter immune to the disease. It is possible that this early brush with smallpox saved the American Revolution 20 years later. In 18th-century Europe, 400,000 people died annually of smallpox.

By the time Jefferson was born in 1743, there was an experimental inoculation procedure, but it was quite dangerous and therefore highly controversial. The idea was to give healthy individuals a very tiny amount of actual smallpox under quarantine and very carefully controlled conditions and simply hope that the person’s immune system would be able to fight it off. Survival would immunize that individual for life. The procedure required many weeks of quarantine, fasting, puking, and rest, followed by a very light diet through convalescence. John Adams wrote a fascinating account of his own inoculation in 1764. He was 28 years old. Young Thomas Jefferson’s first journey out of his native Virginia was to Philadelphia in 1766 to be inoculated. He would have undertaken the procedure in Williamsburg or Norfolk had it been available. He made the long journey (eight to 10 days in either direction) because he wanted to protect himself from the disease and study the procedure at the same time for possible incorporation into his own community at Monticello. With his characteristic taciturnity about personal things, Jefferson did not leave us a detailed account of the medical procedure, which required prolonged isolation, personal discipline and a great deal of patience.

. . .

America’s greatest exemplar of the Enlightenment, Benjamin Franklin, became a passionate advocate of the procedure after his first son Franky died of smallpox on Nov. 21, 1736, at the age of four. Because Franklin was known to be a friend to inoculation, rumors spread in Philadelphia that Franky had died from the procedure. To set the record straight, the grieving father wrote an article in the Pennsylvania Gazette on Dec. 30, 1736: He had “intended to get [Francis] inoculated as soon as he should have recovered sufficient strength from a flux with which he had been long afflicted.” Franklin assured the public that his son "received the distemper in the common way of infection." In 1774, Franklin, who was an indefatigable creator of associations, societies, clubs and public institutions, including volunteer fire departments and lending libraries, established the Society for Inoculating the Poor Gratis to help the poor people of Philadelphia have access to inoculation. In his famous autobiography, Franklin wrote: "In 1736 I lost one of my sons, a fine boy of four years old, by the smallpox taken in the common way. I long regretted bitterly and still regret that I had not given it to him by inoculation. This I mention for the sake of the parents who omit that operation, on the supposition that they should never forgive themselves if a child died under it.”


Letter from Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Waterhouse, 25 December 1800

To Benjamin Waterhouse
Washington Dec. 25. 1800.
Sir
I received last night, and have read with great satisfaction your pamphlet on the subject of the kine-pox, and pray you to accept my thanks for the communication of it. I had before attended to your publications on the subject in the newspapers, and took much interest in the result of the experiments you were making. every friend of humanity must look with pleasure on this discovery, by which one evil the more is withdrawn from the condition of man: and contemplating the possibility that future improvements & discoveries, may still more & more lessen the catalogue of evils. in this line of proceeding you deserve well of your country and I pray you to accept my portion of the tribute due you, and assurances of the high consideration & respect with which I am Sir

Your most obedt. humble servt

Th: Jefferson

Some cold water of reality...

"Speaking at a 10 Downing Street press conference, Prof Whitty said that only one disease – smallpox – has ever been successfully eradicated from Earth and that Covid-19 was unlikely to be any different, meaning it will remain a threat for the ‘foreseeable future’."

[sagablu]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

I narrowed the search for you. Here is 59 cases below age 60 that died the day of or the next day after the injection. Purely coincidence?
https://medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfi...ID19)&DIED=Yes
As for under reporting to VAERS, read this:
The FDA has even conceded to the fact that the VAERS system is highly under-representative of the number of adverse events of which vaccine recipients actually suffer. FDA statistics indicate that the majority of VAERS reports are made by doctors. However, in 1993, a former FDA commissioner wrote in the Journal of the American Medical Association that one study showed that “only about 1 percent of serious events” attributable to drug reactions are reported to the FDA,[409] and other studies have estimated that physicians only report approximately 10% of events related to a vaccine’s administration.[410] Moreover, the NVIC presents additional support for the proposition that reports made by doctors to VAERS represent only a small fraction of the vaccine-related injuries and deaths occurring in the U.S. every year. A 1994 NVIC study of 159 doctor offices in seven states found that only 28 out of 159 doctors ( 18%) surveyed indicated that they submit reports to the government (to any federal agency, such as the FDA, CDC or any health department) when a child suffers a serious health problem following their hepB immunization. In New York, only one doctor out of 40 surveyed reported vaccine related adverse events to any governmental agency. This finding suggests that 97.5% of vaccine related deaths and disabilities go unreported in this greatly populated and vaccinated state. As found in New York, data obtained from the six other states surveyed revealed that few physicians, if at all, report, to any federal agency, whether it be the FDA, CDC, or a local health departmenthttps://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/h...=2&isAllowed=y
With all this blind trust in the FDA/CDC vax reccomendations I am surprised that you Canadians aren't also giving the Heb B jab at birth.
By the way, both Pfizer and J&J are convicted felons. The FDA has a revolving door relationship with the corporations and the CDC itself is a drug company. Please don't accuse me of spreading misinformation and propaganda, that is the realm of the drug industry and it's regulators.

Coincidental, maybe.. take a good look at the information that you linked, the few that I looked at had very significant comorbidities. Could the immune reaction have pushed these people over the edge, sure certainly possible. Could Some of them have had an allergic reaction, also possible. Are the total deaths being underreported, just conjecture, no basis for that conclusion. The last reliable information I heard was 34 deaths on 17 million vaccinations. To say that a statistically insignificant is an understatement.

From a public health perspective you're missing the point, even if some deaths are directly attributable to the vaccine, they are dramatically less then the disease itself. Keep in mind there's a lot of room between asymptomatic and dead. There are a lot of people out there with Myocarditis, kidney issues, possible permanent lung damage. Your post completely disregards the overall impact of the vaccine. I'm sorry but you are focusing on information without consideration of the related factors and the overall impact the public health. Cherry picking facts, this is a diservice to public health.

[Haarpti]

According to my research, Fauci has patents on both sides of HIV; huge international hoopla with it in biopharma world and SEC :: virus and vaccine. Both Covid and HIV attack Tcells. Latest news is showing at least one mRNA Vaccine (denoted as tech .. but not affiliated with 5G), is creating supposed false positives of HIV.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Some cold water of reality...

"Speaking at a 10 Downing Street press conference, Prof Whitty said that only one disease – smallpox – has ever been successfully eradicated from Earth and that Covid-19 was unlikely to be any different, meaning it will remain a threat for the ‘foreseeable future’."

I agree that this coronavirus is likely to become endemic much like the other coronaviruses and will require boosters to keep at bay from the variants and / or decline in immunological protection over the course of time. With diligence and improvements in vaccine technology there is a reasonable chance to eradicate this disease, albeit its propensity to be commonly asymptomatic makes the task MUCH more difficult to isolate outbreaks and community spread. It is a tough nut for sure.

There now be two viruses that have been eradicated by vaccines. Small pox and Rinderpest.

Small pox was the first to be eradicated. The first smallpox immunization was created by Edward Jenner in 1796. But it took more than 200 years and a worldwide vaccination program to eradicate the disease. The last known naturally occurring case of smallpox was diagnosed on Oct. 26, 1977, in Merka, Somalia, according to the CDC. The World Health Organization (WHO) declared smallpox eradicated in 1980.
"It was eradicated solely through vaccination. We do not really have any treatments even today for smallpox that are proven, tried and tested,"
Though the U.S. discontinued smallpox immunization in 1972, immunization remains mandatory for U.S. military personnel deployed to smallpox-prone areas.

Researchers continue to study smallpox, but very few scientists have access to the deadly disease. "Only two WHO reference labs are authorized to maintain stocks of variola virus: one at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) in Atlanta and the other at a Russian state laboratory in Koltsovo,". "However, additional variola isolates, either long held unreported or acquired through security breaches, may also exist." All legal research is overseen by the Advisory Committee for Variola Virus Research, according to the WHO.

Prevention of smallpox is based on a worldwide vaccination strategy. Anyone who shows signs of the virus are vaccinated and kept in isolation to prevent any spread of infection by their country's medical authorities. In the United States, the CDC reserves the legal right to quarantine individuals. Anyone who may have come in contact with the potentially infected person is also given the vaccine. The vaccine can prevent or lessen the effects of the virus if it is administered within four days of exposure. Stockpiles of smallpox vaccines are stored around the world to respond to an epidemic, if that ever occurs. In the U.S., the Strategic National Stockpile is an organization run by the government that stores supplies and pharmaceuticals in case of a national health emergency. The Strategic National Stockpile includes millions of doses of smallpox vaccines for emergency use during a smallpox event. "Any confirmed case of smallpox represents an international public health emergency and must be reported to national authorities through local and state health departments."

The second virus to be eradicated by vaccines was Rinderpest, [the extremely contagious and deadly zoonotic virus from which measles in humans was derived and canine distemper in dogs] which vaccine was developed by the biotechnology company at which I was employed and during my time of employment in the late 1980's. The R&D for such vaccine was provided modest financial support by the World Health Organization, if I recall it cost perhaps up to $250,000 to derive. The last documented case of Rinderpest was in 2001, and it was declared eradicated in 2010.

Vaccines work remarkably well.

[Enrique100]

Is there a way to hide this discussion from the front page? It's unfortunate that a cesspool of political arguing has to always be on the front page of a site about cruising and sailing, things I prefer to do to get away from this BS

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Enrique100

Is there a way to hide this discussion from the front page? It's unfortunate that a cesspool of political arguing has to always be on the front page of a site about cruising and sailing, things I prefer to do to get away from this BS

Yes at the top of the thread page, select Thread tools and then unsubscribe or ignore.

[JamesPNW]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

You are always free to wear a mask to protect yourself.

But you are not free to force others to wear a mask to feel protected.

When you are in community places: supermarket, shop, school, office, etc. It is the right of the community and business to require you to wear mask. Why do you have the right to spread deadly virus to others and employees? If you don’t want to wear mask then stay home.

Wearing mask is to protect everyone from the individual and the individual from everyone. Selfishness and ignorance would equate wearing mask as a freedom infringement. It is a simplest act of science based common decency a person could do during a pandemic. What’s is the freaking big deal.

[JamesPNW]

Originally Posted by thinwater

I believe one of the ...,


I could be wrong and I did not say it was the only reason.

It is 100% selfishness and ignorance, nothing else.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

You are always free to wear a mask to protect yourself.

But you are not free to force others to wear a mask to feel protected.

A false or ignorant premise; masks rules have the same authority as isolation and quarantine rules.

By way of example, in the USA:

Isolation and Quarantine
Isolation and quarantine help protect the public by preventing exposure to people who have or may have a contagious disease.

Isolation separates sick people with a quarantinable communicable disease from people who are not sick.
Quarantine separates and restricts the movement of people who were exposed to a contagious disease to see if they become sick.
In addition to serving as medical functions, isolation and quarantine also are “police power” functions, derived from the right of the state to take action affecting individuals for the benefit of society.

Federal Law
The federal government derives its authority for isolation and quarantine from the Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution.

Under section 361 of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S. Code § 264), the U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services is authorized to take measures to prevent the entry and spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the United States and between states.

The authority for carrying out these functions on a daily basis has been delegated to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

CDC’s Role
Under 42 Code of Federal Regulations parts 70 and 71, CDC is authorized to detain, medically examine, and release persons arriving into the United States and traveling between states who are suspected of carrying these communicable diseases.

As part of its federal authority, CDC routinely monitors persons arriving at U.S. land border crossings and passengers and crew arriving at U.S. ports of entry for signs or symptoms of communicable diseases.

When alerted about an ill passenger or crew member by the pilot of a plane or captain of a ship, CDC may detain passengers and crew as necessary to investigate whether the cause of the illness on board is a communicable disease.

State, Local, and Tribal Law
States have police power functions to protect the health, safety, and welfare of persons within their borders. To control the spread of disease within their borders, states have laws to enforce the use of isolation and quarantine.

These laws can vary from state to state and can be specific or broad. In some states, local health authorities implement state law. In most states, breaking a quarantine order is a criminal misdemeanor.

Tribes also have police power authority to take actions that promote the health, safety, and welfare of their own tribal members. Tribal health authorities may enforce their own isolation and quarantine laws within tribal lands, if such laws exist.

Who Is in Charge
The federal government
Acts to prevent the entry of communicable diseases into the United States. Quarantine and isolation may be used at U.S. ports of entry.
Is authorized to take measures to prevent the spread of communicable diseases between states.
May accept state and local assistance in enforcing federal quarantine.
May assist state and local authorities in preventing the spread of communicable diseases.
State, local, and tribal authorities
Enforce isolation and quarantine within their borders.
It is possible for federal, state, local, and tribal health authorities to have and use all at the same time separate but coexisting legal quarantine power in certain events. In the event of a conflict, federal law is supreme.

Enforcement
If a quarantinable disease is suspected or identified, CDC may issue a federal isolation or quarantine order.

Public health authorities at the federal, state, local, and tribal levels may sometimes seek help from police or other law enforcement officers to enforce a public health order.

U.S. Customs and Border Protection and U.S. Coast Guard officers are authorized to help enforce federal quarantine orders.

Breaking a federal quarantine order is punishable by fines and imprisonment.

Federal law allows the conditional release of persons from quarantine if they comply with medical monitoring and surveillance.

In the rare event that a federal order is issued by CDC, those individuals will be provided with an order for quarantine or isolation. An example of a Quarantine Order for Novel Coronavirus (print-only) pdf icon[PDF – 5 pages] is provided. https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/pdf/P...-13-2020-p.pdf

This document outlines the rationale of the federal order as well as information on where the individual will be located, quarantine requirements including the length of the order, CDC’s legal authority, and information outlining what the individual can expect while under federal order.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by boatman61

So.. after more than a year into this 'pandemic' scientists admit the chances of eradicating Covid are quote "as close to zero as makes no difference".
A conclusion I had reached this time last year.. [emoji3]

Happy Easter Boatie!
https://youtu.be/IfcuFWOQiXw