Dream Yacht suspending Guaranteed Charter Income payments

[aqfishing]

If you want to go this route, Sunsail/Moorings/DYC type deal, then buy the boat 100%. Have it registered in your name and take a guaranteed return. Anything else is risky. Worse case, you give notice and go fetch your yacht.

The deals where you pay a down payment for the boat and possibly a balloon, depending the deal, are super risky as the yacht will only be in your name at the end of the contract.

We have had a 444 with Sunsail and have just gone back in on a Moorings 403. Both with guaranteed return.

We did like the thought of going with DYC on the 55% down and no return, or even the 35% down with a 25% balloon. This way we could end up with a much bigger yacht than what we could afford if we had to pay 100% upfront. The only problem was the yacht would not be in our name, we could not even own a share based on the % we bought. We queried this with their Guru’s and were told that DYC was a big strong company and could not possibly ever go under...lets hope they are correct.

Moorings has not missed a payment, even though our new 403 was stuck in Cape Town for more than 8 months. They have also been outstanding in how they have dealt with our missed points from last year.

[bstreep]

Originally Posted by aqfishing

Here I disagree. The charter operator will make sure they charter out their own yachts and the guarantee income boats first, long before they charter out the profit split boats. Lets face it, if you are on a profit split scheme ( and its not 20/80) then your boat does not cost the charter company a cent to lie at the dock, however if they have promised another owner a fixed monthly return you can bet your bottom dollar they will make sure that boat is chartered first!

Look again at BVI Yacht Charters. They don't own the boats and they don't have a guaranteed income program. They are all split. And yes, it's 20/80.

[aqfishing]

Originally Posted by bstreep

Look again at BVI Yacht Charters. They don't own the boats and they don't have a guaranteed income program. They are all split. And yes, it's 20/80.

Hi,

Sorry did not realise you were referring specifically to BVI. I was referring to the big 3.

[Sand crab]

Originally Posted by aqfishing

We have had a 444 with Sunsail and have just gone back in on a Moorings 403. Both with guaranteed return.

What are these boats?

[contrail]

Originally Posted by bstreep

Look again at BVI Yacht Charters. They don't own the boats and they don't have a guaranteed income program. They are all split. And yes, it's 20/80.

Here is another vote for BVI Yacht Charters!

[aqfishing]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

What are these boats?

Both in Seychelles. Right were I can keep an eye!!

[Sand crab]

I should have said what brand and model are they?
Rant.
I really don't understand why charter companies have to put their own labels on them.
Rant over.

[contrail]

Well, having their names on them identifies them to others, whether as charter boats or otherwise. And, of course, it's a means of promotion, which is in the owner's interest. Kinda like airlines and car rentals.

[Jim Woodall]

A shout out to TMM Yacht Charters in the BVI. I've had my catamaran with TMM since 2018. I was not under a guaranteed contract. Since COVID hit last year, TMM has been great in reducing costs to owners and still maintaining the boats to a very high standard. When I recently made the difficult decision to pull Ocean Song out of charter, TMM could not have been better.

Barney Crook, the managing partner at TMM, worked with me as a true professional. I was allowed to take Ocean Song out of TMM's fleet without penalty, even though still under contract. In fact, I will be getting a small refund out of my operating account. Barney arranged to move Ocean Song over to St. Thomas where I took possession, thus avoiding the BVI COVID protocols.

TMM provided tremendous service the entire time Ocean Song was in the fleet. Pre-COVID she chartered very consistently and not only covered all our operating costs and expenses, we saved enough charter income to cover all operating costs and expenses for the last 10 months (with no charters).

If anyone is considering a charter program in the BVI post-COVID, contact Barney at TMM.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Jim Woodall

A shout out to TMM Yacht Charters in the BVI. I've had my catamaran with TMM since 2018. I was not under a guaranteed contract. Since COVID hit last year, TMM has been great in reducing costs to owners and still maintaining the boats to a very high standard. When I recently made the difficult decision to pull Ocean Song out of charter, TMM could not have been better.

Barney Crook, the managing partner at TMM, worked with me as a true professional. I was allowed to take Ocean Song out of TMM's fleet without penalty, even though still under contract. In fact, I will be getting a small refund out of my operating account. Barney arranged to move Ocean Song over to St. Thomas where I took possession, thus avoiding the BVI COVID protocols.

TMM provided tremendous service the entire time Ocean Song was in the fleet. Pre-COVID she chartered very consistently and not only covered all our operating costs and expenses, we saved enough charter income to cover all operating costs and expenses for the last 10 months (with no charters).

If anyone is considering a charter program in the BVI post-COVID, contact Barney at TMM.

A great positive remark during a dark time for that type of business.

[Sand crab]

So I looked up the answer to my previous question.
The Sunsail 444 is a Leopard 44.
The Moorings 403 is a Beneteau Oceanis 391
I think.
Which brings me back to my rant. Aren't these all just rebadged versions of the same base equipped no frills boat? The only difference I have ever seen is that some Leopard charter cats spec'd shorter masts from the factory to be more user friendly by novices. Or am I missing something?

[contrail]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

So I looked up the answer to my previous question.
The Sunsail 444 is a Leopard 44.
The Moorings 403 is a Beneteau Oceanis 391
I think.
Which brings me back to my rant. Aren't these all just rebadged versions of the same base equipped no frills boat? The only difference I have ever seen is that some Leopard charter cats spec'd shorter masts from the factory to be more user friendly by novices. Or am I missing something?

I have always been puzzled by the assumption that charter yachts in the big fleets are necessarily without frills! I wonder what experience gives this experience or if it is internet assumption? There are certainly different levels of amenities from the different companies, and some boats are pretty bare. But, it is a highly competitive industry, and there are plenty of charter boats that are very well equipped, with top level gear, in many cases much better equipped than most private yachts, and in some cases, almost ready for cruising. How do I know this? I am in the industry, and I have owned a Leopard 45, formerly a Moorings Crewed Yacht, for the past seventeen years.

[Jim Woodall]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

So I looked up the answer to my previous question.
The Sunsail 444 is a Leopard 44.
The Moorings 403 is a Beneteau Oceanis 391
I think.
Which brings me back to my rant. Aren't these all just rebadged versions of the same base equipped no frills boat? The only difference I have ever seen is that some Leopard charter cats spec'd shorter masts from the factory to be more user friendly by novices. Or am I missing something?

Sand crab:

I think you're correct. One reason TMM was so attractive to me as a charter company was their willingness to allow customized boats into the TMM fleet. Their boats are not rebranded like The Moorings and Sunsail boats - a Lagoon 42 is a Lagoon 42. Before going with TMM I visited virtually every charter company in the BVI. When I told Barney Crook, the managing partner of TMM, that I was interested in an owners version he didn't spend one second trying to talk me into a 4-cabin, charter version. He simply pointed out the obvious, that my charter income would be less. Otherwise, he had no objections to a 3-cabin boat. Moreover, I was free to order any options I wanted - which I did. Over her time in charter TMM made several modifications and upgrades to Ocean Song that were not offered by Lagoon out of the factory. Some of the other small charter operations offered similar services; however, none were as organized as TMM.

Of course, TMM places its logo on all the boats. TMM places 3-4 logos on each boat and a few have the logo on their stack pack. Otherwise, and within reason, the owners can put their desired logos, fonts, colors, etc. on their boats. A well-known example in the BVI is Sea Tiger, the Clemson boat, covered in bright orange with a tiger paw jib.

I think the small charter companies like TMM provide better customer service, and much better equipped and maintained boats than the larger charter companies. In the past I chartered with The Moorings and Sunsail, I was underwhelmed with their customer service and their boats. It was not that the customer service was bad, it was just less personalized than I received at TMM and the TMM staff struck me as more knowledgeable and willing to go the extra mile. On each charter (4 in total) with The Moorings and Sunsail the boats were less than 2 years old. They all showed significant wear and tear for relatively new boats, much of which was the result of neglectful maintenance not excessive use.

Chartering and charter boat ownership does not have to be cookie cutter, it can be customized - just choose the right charter company.

[aqfishing]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

So I looked up the answer to my previous question.
The Sunsail 444 is a Leopard 44.
The Moorings 403 is a Beneteau Oceanis 391
I think.
Which brings me back to my rant. Aren't these all just rebadged versions of the same base equipped no frills boat? The only difference I have ever seen is that some Leopard charter cats spec'd shorter masts from the factory to be more user friendly by novices. Or am I missing something?

Hi,

Sorry, I read your original question as “where” instead of “what”

Yes the Sunsail 444 is the the Leopard 44 - 4 cabin.

I made a mistake on the 403 though. If that yacht, a Leopard 40 - 3 cabin, was with Sunsail it would have been a Sunsail 403. However, I see Moorings call it a M4000 3 Cabin.

Yes, so I guess it does get rather confusing, but I suppose the clever marketing people have a reason for this.

The yachts are not de-tuned in any way, and they have many extras and creature comforts. I do like the fact that because Sunsail and Moorings have had such a long partnership with Robertson and Caine that these yachts have developed to be pretty idiot proof and low maintenance. They are also pretty good value for money. (And now I will probably get hammered by the the Lagoon/FPJ squad)

Enjoy the weekend!

[Bullshooter]

What does TMM stand for?