Dream Yacht suspending Guaranteed Charter Income payments

[sailingabe41ds]

Hi...
Looking at this from an outsider it appears you have a company with major financial problems who is not keeping their end of the deal. Now you are going to give good money to a lawyer, who will eventually ask for even more money, and at the end if the company folds you are not only out of your investment, you are out of the money you gave the lawyer.
At what point do you think it is better to walk away? I say, do you homework about the financial viability of this company and its ability to pay its debts before you end up giving money to a legal system that will only serve themselves.
I guess, every case is going to be different pending how much money one is willing to loose.
Been there...and done that. Sad situation.


IMHO
Abe

[Falbala60]

Originally Posted by sailingabe41ds

I guess, every case is going to be different pending how much money one is willing to loose.
Been there...and done that. Sad situation.
IMHO
Abe

Everybody with little business knowledge will be in line with you and we appreciate your advise.
We are investigating, not ready to sign a blank check to a lawyer.
We need to know the width of the possible solutions.... and cost !

[Barra]

^^^^

I would normally agree with you having been a creditor a few times too but not in this case. For a variety of reasons this appears to be a particularly slow moving train wreck. Those that act fast and push hard may well escape in this instance.

If I had a boat there with my name on the title I would be taking posession and cutting ties asap. No way would I allow them to sell it for me as the second you do you lose effective title.

[valhalla360]

If I was in this position, I would be trying to do whatever I could to get full control of the boat and divorce from DYC.

That said, I wouldn't necessarily vilify them too much. No one has a business plan that includes being shut down while expenses pile up for a year. They are likely in damage control mode trying to limit the hemorrhaging of cash and assets. If they go completely under, there likely will be far less in assets than outstanding bills. If they can hold out until things open, they may have a chance to recover. If they make it clear that they are bankrupt, expect a mad rush and as an "investor" you might (gets fuzzy based on the multiple nationalities involved with different contract law in each) wind up behind higher priority lien holders. Bankruptcy often winds up with unfair judgements and at least in the USA, the rich investor is often seen as someone who can take the hit better than the poor worker.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

If I was in this position, I would be trying to do whatever I could to get full control of the boat and divorce from DYC.

That said, I wouldn't necessarily vilify them too much. No one has a business plan that includes being shut down while expenses pile up for a year. They are likely in damage control mode trying to limit the hemorrhaging of cash and assets. If they go completely under, there likely will be far less in assets than outstanding bills. If they can hold out until things open, they may have a chance to recover. If they make it clear that they are bankrupt, expect a mad rush and as an "investor" you might (gets fuzzy based on the multiple nationalities involved with different contract law in each) wind up behind higher priority lien holders. Bankruptcy often winds up with unfair judgements and at least in the USA, the rich investor is often seen as someone who can take the hit better than the poor worker.

No business plan assumes a year long shut down? Sure, but it sounds like they are actively marketing and selling. Likely using today's income to pay off squeaky wheels from early creditors (in other words, potentially the beginning of a Ponzi Scheme)

Anyone considering DYC and have found this thread have likely read every post with keen interest. There are a couple positive reviews, but many yellow and red flags. If you decide to move forward with DYC, good luck. But you have been warned. If the deal goes south, you have only yourself to blame.

Peter

[Four Coconuts]

Unbelievable. I just got an email from DYC trying to sell me a Bali in the guaranteed income program. The idea that they are still marketing ownership in this model is disgusting given their current situation. It amounts to nothing more than a Ponzi scheme.

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by midatlantian

No choice in the matter, just a letter declaring what would be changed. (Four days before the next scheduled payment that I turn around and apply to the mortgage)

It’s certainly a breach of the Dream Guarantee contract I have with DYC. No doubt about that.
These are interesting times. It’s generally worse to be the little guy In a two-party agreement.

I imagine it would legally be doable to go retrieve my boat and sail away. But where would that leave me? Haha. I can’t actually travel to the Caribbean now due to entrance restrictions. Probably couldn’t go anywhere with it. And we’re still working stiffs.


In retrospect, there’s just too much risk and uncertainty in this “Guarantee” program. I would not recommend it to a friend unless you’re in a financial position where you could lose 500k and shrug it off. I’ve been saying that even before today’s development.

Sorry for your situation. Please go to. No run to a lawyer fast. Do not pay the next payment as it may constitute your acceptance of the contracts ammendment. Using the word GUARANTEE even if the contract has weasel words in favor of the seller most likely comes under Federal deceptive trade practices. Sorry for these charter companies but they have a moral and I would say a legal obligation to stand by their words of Guarantee.

[Barra]

Originally Posted by Four Coconuts

Unbelievable. I just got an email from DYC trying to sell me a Bali in the guaranteed income program. The idea that they are still marketing ownership in this model is disgusting given their current situation. It amounts to nothing more than a Ponzi scheme.

In alot of countries it would amount to trading while insolvent and directors could expect a jail term. International multi jurisdiction businesses like this can tend to slip through the cracks though.

Im sure they are just trying to squeak through to the other side and not deliberately out to swindle people but these things tend to snowball and yeah start to look ponzi like.

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by bstreep

Forget anything "legal" with Dream Yacht. There's a paragraph saying that you have to litigate in Mauritius. Yep. Tiny island in the middle of nowhere, where ships and companies are often registered because... You get the point. After having gone through what we went through with DYCs, there's no way I could recommend anyone buy a boat or charter with them.



To the OP: I sincerely hope this works out for your. Where is your boat?

I would say notwithstanding what they say in their contract. If the product was advertised, sold or written up in the United States then it can come under the purvey of USA Courts. Especially when it comes to consumer and trade practices State and Federal laws.

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by Flomalo

Hello,

I would like to inform you of financial difficulties with Dream Yacht Charter.

We own a boat with a Dream Easy construct.
Three months ago, Dream suggested that we anticipate the buyout of the boat by paying 25% of its residual value.

We had decided to accept this proposal and transferred the money to Dream Yacht almost 2 months ago.
We did not have a sales document.
We still have not received the official transfer of ownership documents for the boat.
The money has been collected but we are still not officially the owner of the boat.
Dream Yacht gives us reassuring information by explaining to us that it is the fault of the (French) authorities who are not doing their job.
Being very worried about the situation, we contacted the administrative authorities and made some very worrying discoveries: There is no transfer file in progress for our boat. Our boat is owned by a bank and Dream is the tenant.
We discovered that the boat registration number that appears on our Dream Easy contract does not match the name indicated on this contract.
The situation is serious and we have the impression that we are living a nightmare to discover the reality: we have paid 55% of the price of a boat to Dream Yatch which they do not own and therefore the name is wrong.

On a trip to Saint-Martin last month, we learned on site that the suppliers had closed Dream Yacht's accounts and required cash payments to provide equipment. Subcontractors are no longer paid, etc ...
The situation therefore seems very critical.
Are they going to go bankrupt?

Can other owners testify about their situation?

Thank you

I would contact the FBI. This looks and smells like cross boarder international fraud. I would call your States local FBI office. Have a talk with them. Suggest that this be referred to Interpol because of the international nature of the apparent fraud. I would also lodge a complaint with the legal authorities in France and the place of their headquarters along with the place where your charter operates from. I would also enjoin the major corporate owners of the charter company in the international fraud. I am making no judgment regarding criminal acts of fraud that may or may have not taken place. Go to the authorities including your State Attorney General. I do hope that no one has committed fraud and it is all just a misunderstanding.

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by Falbala60

Thank you. We had our Lucia in Nassau with DYC and glad (some sort of...) to learn from others what we experiment ourselves.



DYC was financing our boat and we made a contract for them to sell it and reimburse our part. But now the boat is sold, chartered in Key West and we did not get our money.
Do you know a Maryland lawyer that know DYC and had some lawsuits with them ?
(better to stay out of this business)

Fraud is a crime. Go to the State AG as well as the Police and FBI. I am not making any claim of fraud. Go to the authorities.

[aqfishing]

So when we were looking at our next yacht I asked this question:

"In the Dream Easy program, what would happen to your 35% deposit and claim to your yacht should DYC become insolvent before the end of your term?"

The Guru's answer was:


"The chance that the boat would become part of the insolvency are pretty good so you would loose it.

If you consider the 35% an advance payment on charter use the longer it lasts the less the risk.

Essentially the risk of DYC closing its doors is minimal - you take bigger risks than this every day.

DYC is now the largest operator in the world and has private equity money and in the process of going public.

Risk reward is definitely tolerable.

Cheers
Stephen Cockcroft
Dream Yacht Sales"

Easy to say when it's not your money. Needless to say, we chose the guaranteed income with another company, who is still paying(for now!). This gave us ownership and title of our asset. Any problems, we go and collect our asset.

However there could be some real bargains to be had at this time. If you are wanting to get in on these I suggest taking a deal where you have title of the yacht.

[derfy]

I walked past the Dream Yacht's base in Jolly Harbour the other day. It was full of unrented boats. Even if a paying renter shows up, what are the chances they will rent your yacht? At what discount? Covid has just devastated the industry. What makes you think in six months things will be back to "normal"? Lots of rentals during hurricane season?

Get your boat if you can, while it is still fairly new. It might eventually be worth something if you can get clear title and possession of it. Maybe a good local lawyer can get it. Doubtful, but maybe. I suspect Dream Yacht knows how to write good contracts.

Alternatively, consider defaulting on your loan payment now. Somebody is going to get a haircut from this deal. Making interest payments on that loan, in good faith, and in hopes that income will be restored in six months, is just throwing good money down bad hole. Cut your losses.

In case you didn't know this, you were going to lose a lot anyway. After five years, you would still have a huge loan balance, whilst the boat has depreciated substantially, probably worth less than 40% of its new value.

Your haircut is waiting for you, either way.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

No business plan assumes a year long shut down? Sure, but it sounds like they are actively marketing and selling. Likely using today's income to pay off squeaky wheels from early creditors (in other words, potentially the beginning of a Ponzi Scheme)

Anyone considering DYC and have found this thread have likely read every post with keen interest. There are a couple positive reviews, but many yellow and red flags. If you decide to move forward with DYC, good luck. But you have been warned. If the deal goes south, you have only yourself to blame.

Peter

This was the type of vilification that I suggested be toned down (not a free pass but toned down).

This strikes me as desperation by the company to keep enough cash flow to keep going until they can get the charters going again. If they don't stay afloat, all their employees and all their current investors (aka: boat buyers) will likely get hammered and there will be no opportunity to recover. If they can keep things afloat for a few more months, there is likely pent up demand and they could start bringing in profits fairly quickly (though it would likely take a few years to catch up on the lost profits but there is a path to profitability)

That is different from a ponzi scheme where there is no intent to ever turn a profit. Some of the moves may not be ideal...even a bit sketchy but not a preplanned scheme to defraud investors.

As mentioned, I would be trying to divorce myself and the boat from them if I was already in it (of course, I found the deals questionable before the virus...so...). I would be triple checking and having a lawyer confirm any big financial moves, particularly in light of the international nature of the deals.

Anyone buying at this point in time who doesn't understand the risks is just as much at fault. We aren't talking about uneducated minimum wage workers buying $500k boats. These are educated well off people who know darn well the situation the world economy is in. If they want to take wild risks, that's on them.

[mvweebles]

Assuming the posts here are roughly right, DYC is not paying people their committed payments and not turning-over boats as promised, not delivering titles as agreed to. Simultaneously, they are out marketing the same arrangement to new customers.

Did they start out with dishonorable intentions? Probably not. Sure sounds like a gambler trying to offset their losses by gambling more.....I'll sleep fine being accused of vilifying them. Is it a Ponzi Scheme? Will due until a better example comes along....

Peter