Dream Yacht suspending Guaranteed Charter Income payments

[Shanachie]

Valhalla:


Reading the posts here, it's clear that the company has already crossed the line beyond trying to save itself. Stripping boats belonging to investors, not paying off on a sale, trying to attract new investors as its business collapses. That's not good.



I lost a $900 deposit on a DYC trip planned for July 2020 plus $400 down the drain to a sleazy policy from Travel Insured International. There are many more who lost much more.



With all of its difficulties, DYC has no problem continuing to offer new charters, even though reports here indicate many DYC boats are in bad condition and there is a question as to whether the trips will actually happen due to the solvency of the company.


Grabbing other people's money to stay afloat is not cool.

[Cadence]

I can feel empathy for both people involved in these "various" deals and the company owners and employees to some extent. It would seem everyone entered into these agreements with and honest intent and COVID 19 soured the whole thing. I think suing is pouring good money after bad.
Unfortunately it is a no win situation for everyone. I would hope only the initial investment is lost, not peoples homes and other assets. The company people are protected as a corp. of LLC. and the nature of the companies probably means they have few co. assets. Best of luck to everyone.

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by GoingWalkabout

I would say notwithstanding what they say in their contract. If the product was advertised, sold or written up in the United States then it can come under the purvey of USA Courts. Especially when it comes to consumer and trade practices State and Federal laws.

The problem is that there is a huge difference between winning a case and collecting. You successfully win a case in U.S. courts and you can lay claim against all their U..S. assets. Congratulations, you are now the proud owner of a bunch of boat show swag used to sell people on the DYC concept.... because those are probably the only U.S. assets. They're probably judgement proof everywhere but definitely in the U.S.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Shanachie

Valhalla:

Reading the posts here, it's clear that the company has already crossed the line beyond trying to save itself. Stripping boats belonging to investors, not paying off on a sale, trying to attract new investors as its business collapses. That's not good.

I lost a $900 deposit on a DYC trip planned for July 2020 plus $400 down the drain to a sleazy policy from Travel Insured International. There are many more who lost much more.

With all of its difficulties, DYC has no problem continuing to offer new charters, even though reports here indicate many DYC boats are in bad condition and there is a question as to whether the trips will actually happen due to the solvency of the company.

Grabbing other people's money to stay afloat is not cool.

I'm not suggesting that I agree with all the actions they are taking but if they in good faith think things are going to break open in the next couple months, it moves from sleazy to poor response. Hardly surprising if they are desperate to keep afloat and keep their employees fed.

Now if it's a done deal that DYC is going bankrupt and they are just stripping the company to cash out that's a different ballgame but I guess I'm not seeing that based on the thread. I'm seeing desperation to keep it afloat until they are allowed to do business. I have very little sympathy for anyone buying in at this point...if they don't know the game they are playing they are willfully being ignorant.

As far as your deposit, did you actually lose it? Did you accept a voucher for future use? Did you not challenge it with your credit card? How did the insurance company take advantage of you? Most changed their terms around March to rule out covid related claims but they were very up front about it. Something isn't adding up if they just kept your deposit and haven't filed bankruptcy.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Cadence

I can feel empathy for both people involved in these "various" deals and the company owners and employees to some extent. It would seem everyone entered into these agreements with and honest intent and COVID 19 soured the whole thing. I think suing is pouring good money after bad.
Unfortunately it is a no win situation for everyone. I would hope only the initial investment is lost, not peoples homes and other assets. The company people are protected as a corp. of LLC. and the nature of the companies probably means they have few co. assets. Best of luck to everyone.

Probably said it better than I put it. I don't think there is an evil master plan. Desperate people doing stupid things (at least to an outsider looking in with limited information) is hardly surprising and mostly it just implies they are desperate.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

if they in good faith think things are going to break open in the next couple months, it moves from sleazy to poor response. ... DYC is going bankrupt and they are just stripping the company to cash out that's a different ballgame.

You're so kind. There was a post where a customer had finished his obligations and wanted the title to his boat. DYC was unable/unwilling to provide clear title, presumably because the asset was leveraged. Allegedly, DYC didn't ask the owner....they just leveraged someone else's asset to buy time. If so, that's a fancy form of theft.

Assuming the allegation is accurate, sure seems sleazy to me. I have to ask Valhalla - if this isn't sleazy, what is?

Peter

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

You're so kind. There was a post where a customer had finished his obligations and wanted the title to his boat. DYC was unable/unwilling to provide clear title, presumably because the asset was leveraged. Allegedly, DYC didn't ask the owner....they just leveraged someone else's asset to buy time. If so, that's a fancy form of theft.

Assuming the allegation is accurate, sure seems sleazy to me. I have to ask Valhalla - if this isn't sleazy, what is?

Peter

It's likely we don't have the full story. I can't just go into a bank and take out a loan against your house unless you sign off on it...so there must be more to the situation.

Again, if they really are just stripping the company to cash out before it blows up, that's sleazy.

Of course, if they are forging loan documents, that's a criminal action and the owner should press charges not complain on a web forum.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

It's likely we don't have the full story. I can't just go into a bank and take out a loan against your house unless you sign off on it...so there must be more to the situation.

Again, if they really are just stripping the company to cash out before it blows up, that's sleazy.

Of course, if they are forging loan documents, that's a criminal action and the owner should press charges not complain on a web forum.

I believe your first paragraph summed it up. Speculation by jawboning is useless. Knowing nothing about it I assume there are more than one contractual arrangements involved here. Owning the boat and have them maintain it and manage rentals to a similar thing with the boat being financed, and probably more.
.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

It's likely we don't have the full story. I can't just go into a bank and take out a loan against your house unless you sign off on it...so there must be more to the situation.

Again, if they really are just stripping the company to cash out before it blows up, that's sleazy.

Of course, if they are forging loan documents, that's a criminal action and the owner should press charges not complain on a web forum.

DYC promised to pay the boat off. They didn't. They were unable to pass title. Bears zero resemblance to your example. It would be as if a friend financed your house for you and when you make your last payment, you find out he still owes money to the bank so they won't release the deed

But oh-by-the-way, there are many stories of people having their houses stolen from them.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

DYC promised to pay the boat off. They didn't. They were unable to pass title. Bears zero resemblance to your example. It would be as if a friend financed your house for you and when you make your last payment, you find out he still owes money to the bank so they won't release the deed

Wait a sec, you said DYC leveraged the boat recently (ie: took out a loan against it)...now you are saying the owner was fully aware that DYC was holding the title and had approved the original loan. Again it's a convoluted story.

Why would you have a friend finance a house for you? Sounds like the bank wouldn't give you a loan and you tried to do a weird work around.

I'm sure the owner in this story is frustrated. I'd be willing to be DYC is frustrated. I'm sure everyone would have preferred that the virus never happened and charters kept running. But I do not believe we have the full story.

[mvweebles]

From a previous post - not the OP. Sort of speaks for itself. Also read #261. Similar story. Both have the ring of truth. Valhalla, guessing you're just one of those contrarian types. I'm sure there are some details missing. But the gist sounds consistent.

" DYC was financing our boat and we made a contract for them to sell it and reimburse our part. But now the boat is sold, chartered in Key West and we did not get our money."

[Shanachie]

The way DYC and other charter/cruise companies work is that you make a down payment far in advance, then pay the remainder I think three or four months from the charter date.



We approached the deadline for making full payment when covid was peaking in the first wave.



Its offer was: make the full payment, and you can reschedule for later in the year if you can't go. Of course, anyone who read the news and understood science knew that no one was going on any decent charters later in 2020.


Even if you could get to the boat, most places were under onerous restrictions. Restaurants and bars were closed. Quarantines were widespread. What fun is that?



So we decided to cut our losses and eat the deposit. Also, Travel Insured International had been recommended to us by an agent. We had bought the travel insurance before the covid outbreak.


We thought TII would cover the deposit because Grenada was shut down and there were no flights to the island. Imagine our surprise when TII said: Oh no, we don't cover pandemics. That wasn't in the policy.



They may have been trying to survive, but it has cost the company. Its BBB rating went from A+ to no rating as hundreds of complaints piled up. I can't imagine anyone would ever buy one of TII's policies these days, unless it was someone who also signed up for the DYC guaranteed income program.


Insurance companies are supposed to have reinsurance to guard against "black swan" events such as pandemics. TII evidently thought it less expensive just to fleece its customers.


Personally, I'm done buying travel insurance and with charters and cruises that require large payments far in advance. Too much can go wrong. I'll just take a trip on my sailboat.

[Barra]

Originally Posted by Shanachie

Personally, I'm done buying travel insurance and with charters and cruises that require large payments far in advance. Too much can go wrong. I'll just take a trip on my sailboat.

This is why those thinking things go back to normal for DYC in a few months are dreaming. I reckon they had plans to ride out a 6 month business interruption but that is now likely to be 2 years. If they get that far it will be a slow grind back with reputation destroyed by stories like this and poorly maintained boats on a budget etc etc.

Their business is based on selling forward holidays on highly leveraged assets at inflated prices using the forward sales as equity against those loans. It was always risky as hell if you looked but they preyed on the emotion of "buying" a boat. If they survive it will only be because the fed printed money at zero.

I also reckon they started with good intentions but if these stories are accurate they have definitely crossed the line into sleazy or worse.

[Flomalo]

Good morning all.

Since my message number # 262, I am giving you news regarding our financial problems with DYC.

It has now been 3 months since we paid the money to acquire our boat, as DYC proposed to us in October 2020, anticipating the buyout that was expected at the end of the Dream Easy contract in two years.
Two years ago we paid 35%, and three months ago we paid an additional 25%.
We therefore paid 60% of the price of the boat in order to become the owner.
To date, DYC has still not made the transfer of ownership. We do not have any official document certifying that we have become the owners of the boat.
We contacted Maritime Affairs (in France): the boat is still the property of a French bank and DYC the tenant.
So this is clearly a scam on the part of DYC.
We have contacted our Legal Department to initiate legal proceedings against them.

Through the messages of this forum, we see that we are not the only ones ...
It seems that many buyers / sellers / owners fall victim to financial problems from DYC.

What surprises me is that there is very little coverage of these issues in the trade press.

Can anyone here confirm whether landlords with guaranteed income contracts still have no rent paid?


I have noticed that there have been recent changes in the ownership structure of DYC.
DYC is a French company, managed by French people with French shareholders.

The founder, Loïc Bonnet, was European Director of Moorings in the 90s before creating DYC in 2000. He was the majority shareholder with his managing partners.

In 2015 Nexstage (https://www.nextstage.com/), a French investment company, took a 38% stake in the capital of the catamaran builder Fountaine Pajot.

In October 2017 Nexstage and Fountaine Pajot took a majority stake in DYC.
Nexstage has invested € 14m and Fountaine € 11m. DYC committing to acquire a significant share of the production of Fountaine Pajot.

On November 30, 2020, Nexstage sold its entire stake in Fountaine Pajot to a French bank (Crédit Mutuel Arkéa) for € 24 million.
Fountaine Pajot announces a drop in sales of around 20% for 2020.

DYC purchases between 10 and 20% of the annual production of the world's major manufacturers.
DYC needs to find many customers to buy boats and finance its operations, but at the same time, the rentals have collapsed over the past year.

How long will they last?

Does the entry into a bank's capital in Fountaine Pajot, and therefore indirectly in DYC, serve as collateral in the face of DYC's financial difficulties?

[malbert73]

I had a charter booked for Dec 2020 with DYC in SVI. Of course we realized soon in pandemic it wouldn’t happen. Had 1/3 deposit down. DYC offered full credit for trip in 2021 or deposit less $600 back (as per original contract 120 days out as I recall. So I got money back less $600 which I thought was reasonable.