Dream Yacht suspending Guaranteed Charter Income payments

[Barra]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

But didn't I read somewhere back in this thread that your name isn't even on the title? Basically you have no vested legal interest in your boat. It's way different than the loan on your car or your house.

Exactly right. DY has a mix of prepaid holiday owners and boat owners with management contracts. The latter have title, the former are just normal creditors and in a default would get nothing after the banks take those heavily financed boats.

Common sense tells you the boat owners with management contracts should be distancing themselves from the prepaid holiday guys in order to protect their asset.

Whether DY fails or scrapes through probably depends on what the mix is between these two types of "owners" and probably only DY knows that answer.

[bstreep]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Yep kill the the messenger admittedly knowing nothing about him. I have no dog in the fight nor would I just because I don't like complicated things involving my money. However given the results the pandemic has caused to many industries which are not as involved with boarder crossing to the extent that DY is , I would assess their move as an effort the remain solvency. I don't mean to throw any stores at you and this is just my opinion for whatever it is or isn't worth. I have managed for what was a
Fortune 50 co. at that time and have owned my own business which probably influences my view.

Lets hope this COVID goes away and all businesses can get back to normal.

I also own my own business. And in a prior life, I was the VP of Business Development for a Fortune 100 company.

My PERSONAL experience with this company was horrible. They were given every opportunity to correct problems, address promises they made (in writing), or properly compensate us. We ended up with a boat that was not configured as promised (and for those who say otherwise, this boat had "deleted standard features") and we lost 2 days of our charter. They offered us a couple of hundred bucks, with the promise that we wouldn't post negative reviews. It was insulting. It was a ruined vacation that cost $10K per couple. And it was willful - done on purpose. We have documented proof. In addition, there is NO excuse for repairing a brand new boat with a couple of rolls of duct tape.

So, sorry. I don't believe your supposition that they are just trying to survive. I'm sorry for those that have their boats with DYC, I really am. But if DYC goes belly up, it is certainly because those running the company deserve it, and they earned it. This is a classic case of "Yurtle the Turtle". ("Mack" is Covid)

P.S. The bank doesn't "own" the boats. Why is it that people even use the term "I'll give it back to the bank". The bank never owned it. You do. It's YOURS, if your name is on the title.

[Augi]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

Aren't most of these still owned by the bank? The bank might have a problem with you taking their boat.

Depends on the deal that was struck and the fine print.

[DanTwoBoat]

No other connection to Dream other than boat ownership.

The post is meant to provide an informed view about Dream from a person with first hand experience about the situation. There is too much vilification of Dream by people who are making assumptions that that are not accurate. We all know that assumptions are typically not accurate and happy to share the real experience. Not always perfect but worked out reasonably. Of course reasonable is not the same for everyone...

No relationship to Dan Lockyer, just happen to have the same first name.

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by bstreep

I also own my own business. And in a prior life, I was the VP of Business Development for a Fortune 100 company.

My PERSONAL experience with this company was horrible. They were given every opportunity to correct problems, address promises they made (in writing), or properly compensate us. We ended up with a boat that was not configured as promised (and for those who say otherwise, this boat had "deleted standard features") and we lost 2 days of our charter. They offered us a couple of hundred bucks, with the promise that we wouldn't post negative reviews. It was insulting. It was a ruined vacation that cost $10K per couple. And it was willful - done on purpose. We have documented proof. In addition, there is NO excuse for repairing a brand new boat with a couple of rolls of duct tape.

So, sorry. I don't believe your supposition that they are just trying to survive. I'm sorry for those that have their boats with DYC, I really am. But if DYC goes belly up, it is certainly because those running the company deserve it, and they earned it. This is a classic case of "Yurtle the Turtle". ("Mack" is Covid)

P.S. The bank doesn't "own" the boats. Why is it that people even use the term "I'll give it back to the bank". The bank never owned it. You do. It's YOURS, if your name is on the title.

Its all a bad DREAM.

[bstreep]

Originally Posted by DanTwoBoat

There is too much vilification of Dream by people who are making assumptions that that are not accurate.

Um. NO!!!!!! Is that emphatic enough? We have FIRST HAND, PERSONAL EXPERIENCE THAT DREAM YACHT CHARTERS SUCKS!!! They were horrible to us. Misrepresented the boat, and it went downhill from there. How about this part of the story:


We were checking the boat in, and removing the trash and recycle. One of the workers at DYC had offered the use of a hand cart to take trash to the dumpster. When we turned down their pitiful offer to buy our silence, the manager told the worker to take the hand cart back. They actually unloaded the hand cart, put the trash on the ground, and walked off with the hand cart. That's how chicken$%@! they were. After hand carrying the trash 100 yards or so to the trash, we hopped into the van they had arranged to take us to the airport. The van driver had seen the whole thing. "Charter Moorings or Sunsail. No Dream Yacht."

[Augi]

I don't think any of these type deals make sense where capital is being tied up versus chartering for 99% of the buyers of these programs unless:

1. The buyer needs the 5 year commitment that has been made as a reason/excuse to justify to his wife to go sailing 6-12 weeks a year.

2. To be able to afford the boat that the buyer's wife will agree to sail on buy or charter unless he does this type deal.

When you do these type deals all you are doing is paying less upfront for effectively committing to 6-12 weeks of charters a year for 5 years.

It is true there is a built in escape hatch for most of these type deals: You can usually pull the boat out of the program and sell it or pull it out and stop chartering it. However, in the middle of a pandemic or during another type black swan event taking control of boat might be difficult. To pull a boat out of one of these programs the buyer will be subject to the fine print which always will be in the owner of the programs favor. For example when you give notice you want to pull your 1 year old boat out of the program all of sudden your boat might have a lot of 4-5 year old equipment on it.

These type deals make even less sense if you can charter during the shoulder seasons vs. high season when the weather is usually better, and it is less crowded.

It never makes sense to do any of these type deals if the boat is not in the name of the buyer of the program and worst case(if the boat cannot be bought for cash), with a lien on the boat in the name of the bank the boat the buyer/owner arranged financing with to buy the boat. Never put up money for something that is not in your name or have significant control when push becomes shove.

I am conservative, but I think the purchase of any depreciating asset like a boat or a car, in general, ought not to be financed. An exception is the seller is offering significantly below market financing and the seller will not or cannot except cash and lower the upfront price of the boat or car by the amount equal to the amount financing being offered is discounted. Or maybe the tax benefits are significant enough for example to lease a car for business use. Another exception is a buyer has very sure future cashflows coming in and financing the purchase can be done at a very competitive rate of interest.


Buyers of these type programs are undervaluing the risk involved and undervaluing the option value of chartering one charter at a time versus putting money in upfront in return for getting 6-12 weeks of charters a year for 5 years at a discounted cost.

In straight dollar terms you can usually charter during shoulder seasons when the weather is better and the cruising grounds are less crowded you pay close to the same discounted price of charters offered by these type programs.

Another way

[Boat Guy]

Any update from legit owners in the program? Or had DYC made any statements? We can all speculate, but rather deal in facts.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by Boat Guy

Any update from legit owners in the program? Or had DYC made any statements? We can all speculate, but rather deal in facts.

Fact the only winner is DYC

[nextis12]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Fact the only winner is DYC

Could be a win win situation, or in the case of global pandemics maybe lose lose.

In my case, we both managed a difficult situation. I was not in the guarantee program but did eventually get what was owed.

I’m hoping to confirm if in fact Moorings continued to honor the guaranteed income through this and DYC did not. If so, Moorings would have a very compelling marketing point.

[aqfishing]

Originally Posted by nextis12

Could be a win win situation, or in the case of global pandemics maybe lose lose.

In my case, we both managed a difficult situation. I was not in the guarantee program but did eventually get what was owed.

I’m hoping to confirm if in fact Moorings continued to honor the guaranteed income through this and DYC did not. If so, Moorings would have a very compelling marketing point.

Neither Sunsail or Mooring has missed a payment. We in Moorings and a friend with Sunsail. Leopard 40 and 45 respectively. Both in guaranteed payment schemes. So far so good! We hold thumbs.

[rabbi]

DYC just made my day...

A friend was interested in a boat listed by DYC. According to DYC they are just brokers and the owner is a private person.

DYC want a purchase agreement and 10% deposit (~19,000 Euro) now, although the boat will only be released from the fleet in Oct/Nov.
And DYC insists they hold the deposit for the next 6 months... DYC does not accept external escrow services or lawyers to hold any deposits or receive any payments. All payments have to go directly to DYC, even if DYC is only acting as a broker.

Of course the DYC employee insists that DYC has no financial troubles, and that all money is 100% safe.

Smells fishy

Needless to say my friend just walked away, happy he asked this before booking a flight to see the boat.

[Barra]

Pretty unconscionable behaviour but it fits with their MO from better times. They market on emotion to people unwilling or unable to look at the risk in the fine print.

If you ask the right questions you are politely told DYC is probably not for you.

Originally Posted by rabbi

DYC just made my day...

A friend was interested in a boat listed by DYC. According to DYC they are just brokers and the owner is a private person.

DYC want a purchase agreement and 10% deposit (~19,000 Euro) now, although the boat will only be released from the fleet in Oct/Nov.
And DYC insists they hold the deposit for the next 6 months... DYC does not accept external escrow services or lawyers to hold any deposits or receive any payments. All payments have to go directly to DYC, even if DYC is only acting as a broker.

Of course the DYC employee insists that DYC has no financial troubles, and that all money is 100% safe.

Smells fishy

Needless to say my friend just walked away, happy he asked this before booking a flight to see the boat.

[rabbi]

In this case DYC as a broker is refusing to deal with a prospective customer because they want to hold the deposit in their own unsecured accounts.

I'd rather wire the money to the owner himself but certainly not to DYC.

[CaptainRivet]

Dealing with DYC Gerry....i prefer a denist appointment

How do you think the boat will look in September? Just have a look at my post in this thread earlier, 2 of my friends looking at DYC cats had the same story in Greece and Crotia DYC is "parting the boat out" and swapping good parts to other boat still in Charter program from the boats for sale. So not a one timer, i call this criminal behavior, betray and fraud.
Another 2 buyers paid DYC boat in full but didn't get boat papers since 2 month. DYC blame french buraucracy but when the new owners called french authorities they have no enquiry from DYC to deregister the boat and bank still holds the title... So never pay to DYC but they force you too. So stay away