FACT vs OPINION

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Hmmm, like mandatory seatbelt use? Maybe... but I doubt it. More likely there will be institutional restrictions and sanctions placed on the nutbars that insist on exercising their freedom not to be inoculated.

I'd not support mandatory vacinations, but I would support allowing society rit-large to exercise its freedom to protect the general populace. We could require proof of the appropriate inoculations for those who want to do things like go to work, or school, or Walmart or the like.

Rights come with responsibilities.

I couldn't have said it better Mike!

Nut bars. Good description. And kinder than what I would have used.

[Jason Flare]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

They're pretty clear on the subject: 266k deaths from COVID-19 in the US to date.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tra...r100klast7days

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/09/cd...from-covid-19/

ETA: Exactly as I stated.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Jason Flare

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/09/cd...from-covid-19/

ETA: Exactly as I stated.

.....so we're both right.

[Thumbs Up]

Another Bernays book that you can read online: CRYSTALLIZING PUBLIC OPINION The Project Gutenberg eBook of Crystallizing Public Opinion, by Edward L. Bernays.

[Jason Flare]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

.....so we're both right.

The CDC caught a lot of flack for those stats.

Even Snopes said the CDC fueled it’s own conspiracy:

However, fueling the conspiracy theory, the CDC web page stated:

“For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause [of death] mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death.”


https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cd...ty-statistics/

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Jason Flare

The CDC caught a lot of flack for those stats.

Even Snopes said the CDC fueled it’s own conspiracy:

However, fueling the conspiracy theory, the CDC web page stated:

“For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause [of death] mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death.”

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cd...ty-statistics/

Snopes says that the claim

The CDC "quietly updated" its COVID-19 mortality statistics in summer 2020 to show only 6% of previously reported deaths were actually due to the coronavirus, while the remaining 94% died from preexisting health conditions.

... is false.

I'm kind of in the dark about what point you're trying to make.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

Ok fine. The current most pervasive narrative being pushed (that I know of) is that the coming COVID vaccines should be trusted and be compulsory. They might not come right out and say it in those words yet but that is what is getting pushed. Anything that suggests otherwise will be relegated to the fringe, ridiculed, and dismissed. All of the news channels and major political parties agree. Must be truth right? No need to question right? Yeah right. Who can resist this massive psy-op? Are we in a trance? Is there some hidden connection that is making sure all of these media outlets are staying on task with this message?

Funny thing around me , that narrative is coming from the general opinion of the people. People who have regularly chastised the gov for not implementing even stricter Covid measures.

In my experience people lead governments not the other way around, recent successful referendums to allow abortion and same sex marriages show that public opinion often leads more conservative governments ones.

[SalingSue]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Snopes says that the claim



... is false.

I'm kind of in the dark about what point you're trying to make.

And the AP called the election lol

Who am I going to believe, some random left leaning guy at some website called “snopes”,
or what I can read with my own eyeballs on the CDCs site, text which which also makes sense based on everything we have seen with this overhyped virus; It mostly, vastly, kills those already on deaths door or past their normal human life expectancy.

[Jason Flare]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Snopes says that the claim



... is false.

I'm kind of in the dark about what point you're trying to make.

This is what the CDC actually said:


“For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause [of death] mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death.”

And I said the same thing and you disputed it.

It does seem odd that I had to use a Snopes article that declared a somewhat similar but inaccurate statement false to demonstrate that my statement was true but that’s the beauty of critical thinking and creative writing.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Jason Flare

This is what the CDC actually said:

“For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause [of death] mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death.”

And I said the same thing and you disputed it.

It does seem odd that I had to use a Snopes article that declared a somewhat similar but inaccurate statement false to demonstrate that my statement was true but that’s the beauty of critical thinking and creative writing.

Many have (mis) used that CDC statement to imply that COVID-19 has only actually killed ~9000 people in the US (as pointed out in the Snopes article), and it seemed to me like you were trying to go there - in other words that COVID-19 had NOT killed some 266k. My apologies if you weren't disputing the CDC's reporting of the death toll.

[Jason Flare]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Many have (mis) used that CDC statement to imply that COVID-19 has only actually killed ~9000 people in the US (as pointed out in the Snopes article), and it seemed to me like you were trying to go there - in other words that COVID-19 had NOT killed some 266k. My apologies if you weren't disputing the CDC's reporting of the death toll.

I was simply repeating what the CDC said.

[MicHughV]

my wife likes to discuss these type of things....

the other day, we were walking on the beach, and I said to her, imagine for a moment, that the State of Florida is the entire universe (as we know it)....and each grain of sand along the coast resembles each planet (as we know it)....
therefore planet earth is one of those grains of sands, and taken in context of Florida being the entire universe (as we understand it), it can be seen that planet earth taken in context of an area the size of Florida is infinitely small and insignificant.
Us folk that inhabit this minuscule grain of sand are mere microbes in the general scope of things....
It is presumptive that we know anything at all?

[Jason Flare]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

It is presumptive that we know anything at all?

I think I agree.

[Thumbs Up]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

I couldn't have said it better Mike!

Nut bars. Good description. And kinder than what I would have used.

To have a good debate these days you almost have to hurl insults, right?

[Thumbs Up]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Funny thing around me , that narrative is coming from the general opinion of the people. People who have regularly chastised the gov for not implementing even stricter Covid measures.

In my experience people lead governments not the other way around, recent successful referendums to allow abortion and same sex marriages show that public opinion often leads more conservative governments ones.

For Sale to the highest bidder: The opinion of the people