FACT vs OPINION

[Thumbs Up]

Originally Posted by GordMay

I read the article, and expect that was (one of?) the mischaracterization that Dr. Zimmerman rebutted.
Did you read the (2) Zimmerman pieces, to which I linked?

Yes I did. He was angry that they twisted his meaning to state: "that there was no scientific evidence that vaccines cause autism"

Anybody that questions the safety or efficacy of any vaccine is automatically vilified. Why? Propaganda. How does the safe vaccine movement stay afloat? Contributions from parents with dead and injured children.

They would rather brainwash the public and vilify these parents than tell the truth, or develop safer vaccines.

Why do you jump on that bandwagon?

[Thumbs Up]

Originally Posted by dwedeking2

Which makes you a hypocritical tyrant, just as guilty as the ones you rail against. You just don't like the methods they currently use to control the unwashed masses. Your even more superior than the other supreme farmers. In this hypothetical situation, off course.

At least you can admit that they use these methods to control the masses. That seems to be a stretch to a lot of people here. And at least as hypothetical king I solved the problem in a way that was good for them instead of rewarding a PR firm that gets paid to make people believe in lies. Now less of them are calling me a hypocritical tyrant.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by dwedeking2

But if we're going to have a discussion on how things should be run, I'm going to provide my argument based on my value system - liberty > living > safety > economics.

Yup. Pretty much Mazlow's hierarchy.




... notice that until you have the bottom two layers, you're not free enough to pursue the top three. (you can't eat liberty, or bash an attacker with it)

If society helps more people to achieve the bottom two levels, then MORE people have the real liberty needed to aim for the top ones.

There's also many economic reasons why this is better overall.

[Thumbs Up]

Originally Posted by Singularity

But as King, here is what is happening:

-There are two subjects of yours (2 guys) going around convincing everyone to not wear seatbelts. And no one is wearing seatbelts. No matter what you say, everyone listens to the 2 guys.

-The lives lost, money wasted on medical bills gets sapped away from your country's only factory (source of income) which makes refrigerators.

-There are 3 other countries on Earth who also make refrigerators. In those countries they require, and use seatbelts, and are not wasting money on car accident issues.

-Unless you want to go broke, you have to raise the price on your refrigerators (to make up for the medical costs), as such the 3 other countries have a competitive advantage over your refrigerator kingdom merely because people won't wear seatbelts.

So are you just going to raise the price on your refrigerators? Or are you willing to slowly go broke? Or do you have another idea?

If those two guys can convince my citizens to not wear seatbelts even though I am paying them then they obviously have a very large PR budget. Who is paying for that? Follow the money. Expose them. Maybe a public hanging. These guys were sent to agitate my kingdom and were backed by big money.

The vaccine skeptics are just ordinary poor people with dead and retarded children who are looking for answers and get vilified every time they find one. You are barking up the wrong villain tree.

[Singularity]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

If those two guys can convince my citizens to not wear seatbelts even though I am paying them then they obviously have a very large PR budget. Who is paying for that? Follow the money. Expose them. Maybe a public hanging. These guys were sent to agitate my kingdom and were backed by big money.

As King, you are paying them.

They don't us a PR department, rather they use the internet and smart phone system that you paid for 5 years ago. They don't need a PR department, they are just good at talking, figuring out how to convince people to not wear seatbelts.

Now, these 2 subjects are honest people. They may/may not think that you are trying to kill them by your order to wear seatbelts. But at any rate, in their hearts they believe that seatbelts cause more harm than good, and, because of their efforts, more people die, it's hurting your business, and your wealth.

Your country is losing competitive advantage compared to the other 3 refrigerator-making countries. All of your subjects are starting to grumble that things are not what they used to be. That in the other countries people seem to be able to take more vacations, not have to work as hard.

So what are you going to do? You've exposed the 2 guys, but this hasn't changed anything...people are still not wearing seatbelts because of these 2 (legitimately) good-hearted guys.

So what do you do next? The 2 guys mean well after all.

[Thumbs Up]

Originally Posted by Singularity

As King, you are paying them.

They don't us a PR department, rather they use the internet and smart phone system that you paid for 5 years ago. They don't need a PR department, they are just good at talking, figuring out how to convince people to not wear seatbelts.

Now, these 2 subjects are honest people. They may/may not think that you are trying to kill them by your order to wear seatbelts. But at any rate, in their hearts they believe that seatbelts cause more harm than good, and, because of their efforts, more people die, it's hurting your business, and your wealth.

Your country is losing competitive advantage compared to the other 3 refrigerator-making countries. All of your subjects are starting to grumble that things are not what they used to be. That in the other countries people seem to be able to take more vacations, not have to work as hard.

So what are you going to do? You've exposed the 2 guys, but this hasn't changed anything...people are still not wearing seatbelts because of these 2 (legitimately) good-hearted guys.

So what do you do next? The 2 guys mean well after all.

Blame it on the Russians?
Or investigate ways to make seatbelts safer (Full shoulder harness, or padding.) See if they have a valid point.

Look, if the CDC spent half what it spends on the PR villifying vaccine skeptics, on R&D we could of had a much safer vaccine program by now.

[Singularity]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

Blame it on the Russians?
Or investigate ways to make seatbelts safer (Full shoulder harness, or padding.) See if they have a valid point...

Indeed, it might be possible that the 3 other countries who make refrigerators could be slipping money to these 2 guys (this would be normal in international politics). But for present purposes assume that this isn't so.

And also, there is ongoing research worldwide on seatbelts, literally hundreds of millions of man hours to date on seatbelt improvement, where you realize that you've already been contributing a little to the seatbelt research fund (because you're a good King).

You bring the 2 guys in to talk with them. You also bring in your top seatbelt experts, your accountants, your top mathematicians and statisticians, top scientists.

The 2 guys plead their case, but your entire team agrees that these guys are making a mountain out of a molehill. That, technically the 2 guys are correct ("have a valid point") that on very rare instances seatbelts cause harm. But that these 2 guys cannot seem to understand that 300 lives are saved by seatbelts for every 1 life lost by seatbelts.

But the 2 guys keep talking and talking, and your subjects remain convinced that seatbelts are more harmful than helpful. What do you do? How do you deal with the consequences of these 2 guys? Just accept losing business? More grumbling from the rest of your subjects? They want things great again.

What do you do about these 2 guys?

[Thumbs Up]

It was because of those two guys that we went from lap belts, to shoulder belts and air bags.

[Singularity]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

It was because of those two guys that we went from lap belts, to shoulder belts and air bags.

You're correct, King.

By last report, where previously your country enjoyed 31% of the refirgerator market (not bad with 3 other competitors), you're now down to 26% of the world market for refrigerators.

People have started to protest peacefully on Sundays. They are carrying signs to "Make Catamaranlandia Great Again." The amount of their take-home pay that you allow them has reduced...as you had to increase money to pay for the car accidents to keep people healthy enough to work the factory. Your subjects have less money to recreate with, many are choosing to not spend money, in case things get worse, such that restaurant and bar owners are hurting.

The 3 other kings of countries who make refrigerators are on TV offering pity for the people of Catamaranlandia.

The 2 guys keep going about convincing people that seatbelts are not safe, that someday they might be safer, but there's no evidence of that now.

What do you do now, King?

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

Yes I did. He was angry that they twisted his meaning to state: "that there was no scientific evidence that vaccines cause autism" ...

Having read, and misunderstood, Dr. Zimmerman’s affidavit, and Presser, in favour of Sharyl Attkisson’s mischaracterizations, I doubt you’d be inclined to accept verdicts from Snopes. Notwithstanding, a reading of their narrative, might be enlightening.

"A deep dive into some misleading statements contained in a recent “Full Measure” segment produced by Sharyl Attkisson."

Claim: The legal decisions refuting a connection between autism and vaccination during the Omnibus Autism Proceeding rested primarily on the written testimony of Andrew Zimmerman: FALSE

Claim: Zimmerman’s knowledge about a potential circumstance in which a vaccine could theoretically affect ASD was hidden from the public until he came forward in 2018: FALSE

See the full narrative & analysis:
Snopes ➥ https://www.snopes.com/news/2019/01/...ccines-autism/

[SalingSue]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

Blame it on the Russians?
Or investigate ways to make seatbelts safer (Full shoulder harness, or padding.) See if they have a valid point.

Look, if the CDC spent half what it spends on the PR villifying vaccine skeptics, on R&D we could of had a much safer vaccine program by now.

Exactly.

It’s like cellphones, there is a reason the government doesn’t try to scare everyone into owning one, folks see the obvious value and decide to get one.

When you have to scare/con someone into buying your junk...well

[SalingSue]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Having read, and misunderstood, Dr. Zimmerman’s affidavit, and Presser, in favour of Sharyl Attkisson’s mischaracterizations, I doubt you’d be inclined to accept verdicts from Snopes. Notwithstanding, a reading of their narrative, might be enlightening.

"A deep dive into some misleading statements contained in a recent “Full Measure” segment produced by Sharyl Attkisson."

Claim: The legal decisions refuting a connection between autism and vaccination during the Omnibus Autism Proceeding rested primarily on the written testimony of Andrew Zimmerman: FALSE

Claim: Zimmerman’s knowledge about a potential circumstance in which a vaccine could theoretically affect ASD was hidden from the public until he came forward in 2018: FALSE

See the full narrative & analysis:
Snopes ➥ https://www.snopes.com/news/2019/01/...ccines-autism/

Snopes lol

[Thumbs Up]

Originally Posted by Singularity

You're correct, King.

By last report, where previously your country enjoyed 31% of the refirgerator market (not bad with 3 other competitors), you're now down to 26% of the world market for refrigerators.

People have started to protest peacefully on Sundays. They are carrying signs to "Make Catamaranlandia Great Again." The amount of their take-home pay that you allow them has reduced...as you had to increase money to pay for the car accidents to keep people healthy enough to work the factory. Your subjects have less money to recreate with, many are choosing to not spend money, in case things get worse, such that restaurant and bar owners are hurting.

The 3 other kings of countries who make refrigerators are on TV offering pity for the people of Catamaranlandia.

The 2 guys keep going about convincing people that seatbelts are not safe, that someday they might be safer, but there's no evidence of that now.

What do you do now, King?

Stage some no seatbelt accidents to prove to the public that they are necessary?
Pay my PR counsel to put them to shame?
Limit free speech to protect people from their own thought processes?
Banish them to Monohullville?
Stage an accident with them in the car, but the seatbelt saves them.
Stage the accident so that they are killed not wearing seatbelts.
Expand public transportation?
You are right, it is tough being King. I do have one last idea though. I could have a dialogue with them. Maybe they have a point and seatbelts could be made even safer. Maybe offer to some add some side impact airbags and proper headrests. If these two guys are able to convince all of those people that easily then just maybe they actually have a valid point. Maybe the seatbelts that my accountant sold them are defective and should be inspected!

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by SalingSue

Snopes lol

And the narrative (substance), they document?

[SalingSue]

Originally Posted by GordMay

And the narrative (substance), they document?

They are sooo full of it and very left biased and left owned.

Half the time they call something false or partially false, yet their description reinstates why it’s true.