Helping the COVID kids

[zstine]

Honestly, I think 1 year of home school or virtual school is going to be just a small blip in the scheme of life. As an adult, Try to think back to your 4th grade class year and ask yourself how much those memories were formative to who you are today... just a blip IMO.


My kids, now 10 and 12, spent the 2018-2019 school year living aboard and being boat-schooled. They re-entered public school for a few months back in Sept 2019, but then in early 2020 they were back home doing school virtually and have been since. Easy adjustment for them. Easy for us too, since we are not teaching and can work from home. And the kids still get to see their friends virtually and still break off in zoom groups to do activities together, they have much more interaction than boat-school. no big deal...



For those without internet, or parents who cannot stay home with the kids, or families who financially needed that school lunch meal provided... it's a different story for them. much bigger impact that could ripple for many years. They are the ones that need government help.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by zstine

Honestly, I think 1 year of home school or virtual school is going to be just a small blip in the scheme of life...
... For those without internet, or parents who cannot stay home with the kids, or families who financially needed that school lunch meal provided... it's a different story for them. much bigger impact that could ripple for many years. They are the ones that need government help.

Indeed.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

...

I just think we're all becoming less social the more technology, and especially these so-called "social media" platforms, come to dominate. And I don't think it's only a problem for the young.

Might be a difference of what "social" means but I think kids are FAR more social today than ever before. They might not go outside to socialize as much as I did, but they are socializing on computers, phones, and game boxes all the time. They don't really have down time. Just like many adults. This is far more harmful for kids than adults.

Before, kids could get away from bullying. Now, the bullying follows one via phone, email, and online persona, not just in person. The schools lie about how they are defeating bullying. Bullying is far worse today than when I was a kid. The noise and chattering with friends goes on far more today than ever before because of the ease of connection. Worse, today's kids are becoming Borg Like and the pressure to conform is far worse than when I was a child.

The Pandemic has not affected my kids at all.

Later,
Dan

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by dannc

Might be a difference of what "social" means but I think kids are FAR more social today than ever before. They might not go outside to socialize as much as I did, but they are socializing on computers, phones, and game boxes all the time. They don't really have down time. Just like many adults. This is far more harmful for kids than adults.

Yes, I suppose it depends on your definition of "social." I'm not sure what the clinical definition is, but I think of it as direct human interaction. The problem with technological-based communication is that it limits and narrows the way we can interact.

Humans evolved as direct social animals. We communicate massive amounts of information through visual, auditory and (to a lesser extent) olfactory means. So much of the subtlety of the visuals, of the tone of voice, are lost in the digital world. In other words, ,ost technology-mediated communications allow only a narrow bandwidth of this to come through.

There are theories that say this is what explains why there seems to be so much more vitriol and anger in online communication vs real world. I'd say a lot of CF's hot threads adds proof to this theory.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Humans evolved as direct social animals. We communicate massive amounts of information through visual, auditory and (to a lesser extent) olfactory means. So much of the subtlety of the visuals, of the tone of voice, are lost in the digital world. In other words, ,ost technology-mediated communications allow only a narrow bandwidth of this to come through.

On the one hand, I agree having seen the challenge of conveying tone online.

On the other hand, I catch glimpses of subtle communications among the younger generation uses online that is obvious to them but I struggle to catch even small bits of it.

I suspect it's not all that different from the past where old folks just don't get the younger generation. Think of the movies/tv shows where the Dad tries to act hip and use the latest slang...it's usually the set up for a joke about how he doesn't get the subtle aspects and thus gets it all wrong.

If you try to keep up online, by the time you get something down, you're out of date. Think of facebook that started as a thing for highschool/college age kids but within a few years, the kids considered it the domain of the soccer moms. If they even had an account it was usually to appease the older generation.

If there's really something that sets humans apart is they are incredibly adaptable.

Honestly, I think most kids are going to be fine socially. The financial impacts to their families and the delays in education are likely to be the longer lasting impacts. This is also where I see disparity being the greatest. Families that keep their jobs and keep the kids focused on schooling will have kids at a huge advantage over those that lose their jobs and allow the kids to lose focus on schooling.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Yes, I suppose it depends on your definition of "social." I'm not sure what the clinical definition is, but I think of it as direct human interaction. The problem with technological-based communication is that it limits and narrows the way we can interact.

Humans evolved as direct social animals. We communicate massive amounts of information through visual, auditory and (to a lesser extent) olfactory means. So much of the subtlety of the visuals, of the tone of voice, are lost in the digital world. In other words, ,ost technology-mediated communications allow only a narrow bandwidth of this to come through.

There are theories that say this is what explains why there seems to be so much more vitriol and anger in online communication vs real world. I'd say a lot of CF's hot threads adds proof to this theory.

Yes, a great deal is lost in non verbal conversations. I despised having phone calls at work when people could get up and walk down the hall and have a face to face conversation. Now, I don't even have a phone anymore at work.

I don't think using video in computer to computer conversations helps that much either. And in my case, and other people I know, we disable the video camera and put tape over it, so while I am in a great number of video conferences each day, you get to see the image I put up. not what is behind me in my house.

Much of the angst on forums is because of the missing non verbal cues. No argument about that and I have seen it for years. I don't need no stink'n theory to tell me that fact. I also see it in person with people from different countries/cultures where the non verbal cues are missed or misunderstood.

Later,
Dan

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

On the one hand, I agree having seen the challenge of conveying tone online.

On the other hand, I catch glimpses of subtle communications among the younger generation uses online that is obvious to them but I struggle to catch even small bits of it.

I think there are growing capabilities to mitigate what is being lost, but it is still no where near achieving the complexity of direct human-to-human communication. From the very early days of ascii smileys we've tried to find ways of filling in the emotional and non-obvious clues that real human communication includes. Now we have all manner of emojies and little shorthands, but it's still misses a lot. Even the video conference capabilities don't match a face-to-face meeting.

I do think you're right though; humans are incredibly adaptable. But that doesn't mean we don't loose things as we move with our technology. We now mostly all live in large urban areas, yet our evolution has adapted us to communities of no more than around 150. We've adapted, but we've lost as well as gained in the process.

I think the kids will be fine. They tend to be more resilient and flexible than the adults. And like you, I more worry about the longer-term impacts of loss of incomes, loss of education and loss of future opportunities.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by dannc

...Much of the angst on forums is because of the missing non verbal cues. No argument about that and I have seen it for years. I don't need no stink'n theory to tell me that fact. I also see it in person with people from different countries/cultures where the non verbal cues are missed or misunderstood.

[billgewater]

Children!! The wailing! The yelling and gnashing of teeth! The thrashing about!

And that's just during the conception!

(Can you recall the American comedienne responsible for this observation?)

[newts]

Where do you think kids games like " Ring a ring a rosy" came from , kids, normalising a tragic era of their life.dont try to live their life for them is my advise
Allan.
But what would I know . I stopped being a kid over 75 year ago.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I just think we're all becoming less social the more technology, and especially these so-called "social media" platforms, come to dominate. And I don't think it's only a problem for the young.

To sum this up, I used to work at a University and was amazed one day at a group of 12 Students all standing in a circle out on the green and all but two of them were glued to their phones - Probably chatting to one another by Messenger

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Yes, I suppose it depends on your definition of "social." I'm not sure what the clinical definition is, but I think of it as direct human interaction. The problem with technological-based communication is that it limits and narrows the way we can interact.

Humans evolved as direct social animals. We communicate massive amounts of information through visual, auditory and (to a lesser extent) olfactory means. So much of the subtlety of the visuals, of the tone of voice, are lost in the digital world. In other words, ,ost technology-mediated communications allow only a narrow bandwidth of this to come through.

There are theories that say this is what explains why there seems to be so much more vitriol and anger in online communication vs real world. I'd say a lot of CF's hot threads adds proof to this theory.

Good post Mike as you explain very well the reasons for my concern about the difference between face to face interactions and now a mostly virtual culture when pandemic lockdown is being invoked .

Its good to hear from parents that they feel the 'kids are allright", but somehow I believe that we are slowly becoming numb and less compassionate towards those outside our immediate circle.

Even the most professional of Behaviorists will say that you really need a face to face conversation with a person to better understand their body language and inflections in non verbal communication towards a shared truth.

I dare say in some cases, there is even a form of telepathy in physical interactions, which you do not get via online conversations..

So what I see today is social dysfunction, fueled by media hype which has accelerated during COVID..

While some of the adults act this out thru riots and political vitriol and others wisely keep their head down in fear..

....Dont you think the kids are internalizing the same thing?

[Pelagic]

Just another note about the pitfalls of virtual communications.

I am in +8h Philippines time,
My siblings and friends in Vancouver are -8h,

Our Circadian rhythms are not inline as our minds and bodies are out of synch by 16 hour.

So when we speak, we have this other barrier towards good communication

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Good post Mike as you explain very well the reasons for my concern about the difference between face to face interactions and now a mostly virtual culture when pandemic lockdown is being invoked .

Its good to hear from parents that they feel the 'kids are allright", but somehow I believe that we are slowly becoming numb and less compassionate towards those outside our immediate circle.

Even the most professional of Behaviorists will say that you really need a face to face conversation with a person to better understand their body language and inflections in non verbal communication towards a shared truth.

I dare say in some cases, there is even a form of telepathy in physical interactions, which you do not get via online conversations..

So what I see today is social dysfunction, fueled by media hype which has accelerated during COVID..

While some of the adults act this out thru riots and political vitriol and others wisely keep their head down in fear..

....Dont you think the kids are internalizing the same thing?

I do agree. Kids are internalizing the same, just as adults are. That's why I initially commented that it's not really a kid thing. It's ubiquitous in our societies, and getting worse.

We all living more and more in our own bubbles. Technology is the Siren calling us all to our doom...

OK, that's a bit melodramatic . There are good things to all this communications technology. But there are very real dark sides as well. Kids are definitely feeling it. The younger generations suffer more depression and anxiety, and young women in particular seem to be facing some very harsh realities in the form of higher mental health problems in general, and even even higher suicide rates than in the past.