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waterman46 · 03-04-2020, 11:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

A lot of folks don’t want to admit that recreational boating requires some interaction with others. But it does.

You need fuel. You need boat parts. You need bait. Some of you need alcohol. You need food. You may need towing or emergency health services. You need transport to and from your boat. You need your buddy Clem to go with you. You need another pair of sunglasses. Sure, you could order supplies online, but then someone has to bring them to you. It may be that you really don’t need any of this, but most people do.

Whenever you’re moving around, you interact with others. Some to a greater extent, some to a smaller extent. There are plenty who will bend or ignore any rule or request made.

This is going to be a challenge, and will require some inconvenience of everyone for the greater good. Nobody wants to sacrifice their leisure activities. Just be glad so little is being asked of most people right now. More was demanded of other generations. You can stay home and watch TV. You can paint a landscape. You can paint your house. You can work on your garden. You can watch a sunset or gaze at the stars. You can phone a friend who is going through the same experience.

Any small contribution that you can make to slow the spread right now, even if it only affects one person - even if it only affects you, is helpful. If you get sick and have to seek medical care, it’s another important resource used.

Agree, but the allowance for party boat fishing up to ten guests in the same state is what is more than just offensive, it is dangerous.

redneckrob · 03-04-2020, 11:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

Never said that not being able to go sailing was political pandering. In fact, can't think of how it would be. If you actually read the thread you'd see that I said allowing charter fishing boats to go out with a small crowd of strangers each day, interacting with a fixed crew, and then the same crew going out the next day with a different small crowd of strangers, on the basis that the activity forms a "critical part of the food supply" was pandering. What other reason is there for such a specific exemption that flies in the face of every single facet of isolation and quarantine?

If those hard-working emergency management folks have time to actually write such a specific exemption and publish it on the state website then they certainly have to time to reflect on forming that exemption and see what an absurd thing it is.

And if it is that easy to find one exemption that is prima facie stupid (yes, stupid) then shouldn't we be digging for others that may be more significant? You may trust and accept a totalitarian government edict on its face because it is presented as an "emergency order" by hardworking emergency service workers. I don't. So I guess I'll keep "whining" - what a great way to try and deflect by characterizing the person making the argument rather than presenting some good reasoning. Sounds just like our commander-in-chief.

How many people here knew the name of their city/town/county/state health official before this started? How many do now? Now that you know them and have seen them in action, how many of them would you trust to be your physician? Or if you don't thinks that's a fair role comparison, to be the manager of the hospital in which you are being treated? Just because someone is in power is not a reason for me to trust them. Far too many times in my life have I seen incompetence rise to the top (both public and private). And that goes double, or even more in a time of crisis. Many of them didn't show me that they could be trusted in calm times, asking me to trust them in times of crisis when they feel the power of their petty authority? My one hope is that this will see some rise to the top and show that they deserve the trust, until they do, it is my job as a citizen to question.

If I were to make a sailing analogy then I'd say that the time to prepare for the storm is long before it arrives, but once it does arrive you have to review every strategy you pre-selected and evaluate how well it fits the conditions. And you have to re-evaluate continuously during the storm. If you wait until after the storm is passed to evaluate those critical decisions then like as not it is too late. Certainly you can review them again after the weather calms and try to decide if "next time" you ought to do things differently or plan differently, but during the height of the storm is when the most critical decision making needs to occur.

First off, if you're really in Petersburg Alaska as your profile indicates, then you not only couldn't be much further away and much less impacted by our executive orders in Maryland but under our democratic federalist system you have no say in the matter...if we're going to be trotting out "our job as a citizen" and "totalitarian government edicts" language.

Second, you seem to be complaining about an aspect of an executive order that that not only has zero impact on you but has zero impact on cruisers of any kind. Even if you did live in Maryland, "fixing" this section of the executive order would have zero impact on you or any of us as a cruisers in MD! Yes it isn't "fair", get over it! As a resident and voter in Maryland, neither I nor the majority of my fellow citizens believe that rises to the level that the Governor or his staff should be stopping anything they're doing right now to rectify it.

I like your analogy, let's run with it. We're in the middle of a crazy storm, hanging on for our lives under an incompetent skipper who earlier in the trip dictatorially decided that the only alcoholic drink allowed on board would be Miller Light, no rum allowed. You're advocating that, even though you don't drink, and even though now allowing rum on board wouldn't change the situation we're in one iota, it's vitally important that the skipper address this whole prohibition on rum thing immediately because not only isn't it not fair but...seriously Miller Light?
That's obviously absurd on so many levels. The skippers competence obviously has nothing to do with if it's a good idea to revisit this decision immediately this very instant. In fact the less competent he is the more you don't want to distract him with things that aren't necessary to keep the crew alive right now. And obviously if you don't drink, it doesn't matter to you in the end anyway, and even if you did is now really the time. If he was doing something that was right now endangering the crew in the storm, absolutely you jump on it. This, not so much (although really, we should have jumped ship when we heard the Miller Light part).

I happen to live here in MD, and I happen to think the governor, who I don't especially like and didn't even vote for, is doing the best he can with what he's got. If the worst thing that comes out of this is that charter boats got to go out when they shouldn't have.....I'll count us very fortunate and give the governor the kudos he deserves. In the mean-time, I'm not turning every rushed executive order into a "totalitarian government" conspiracy or bothering the people who I'm witnessing first-hand working their behinds off doing the best they can. I'm guessing we're probably both fans of Teddy Roosevelt, so this quote of his is probably apropos:

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."

waterman46 · 03-04-2020, 11:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montanan

I do understand how one could characterize some of these posts as beating a dead horse. But IMHO in these times most of us will get quite frustrated at times, and having an outlet such as CF is good therapy. As long as the discussion is civil, and I believe it has been remarkably so, I applaud those who have thoughtfully contributed. Makes for good reading while isolated away from boat!

redneckrob · 03-04-2020, 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by waterman46

Agree, but the allowance for party boat fishing up to ten guests in the same state is what is more than just offensive, it is dangerous.

You're the first person on this thread who's expressed any concern for the actual danger of the policy. Everyone else is primarily concerned with "It's not fair, how come they get to and I don't".

ArmyDaveNY · 03-04-2020, 11:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by redneckrob

You're the first person on this thread who's expressed any concern for the actual danger of the policy. Everyone else is primarily concerned with "It's not fair, how come they get to and I don't".

Is it really that dangerous? If so, how is it all right to go to a grocery store where dozens or hundreds are touching and/or breathing on everything but it is not all right to go on a boat with only ten people?

I am not saying it is all right, but I don't see the difference.

letsgetsailing3 · 03-04-2020, 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by waterman46

Agree, but the allowance for party boat fishing up to ten guests in the same state is what is more than just offensive, it is dangerous.

I can't disagree with you there.

What they were thinking with this I have no idea.

letsgetsailing3 · 03-04-2020, 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArmyDaveNY

Is it really that dangerous? If so, how is it all right to go to a grocery store where dozens or hundreds are touching and/or breathing on everything but it is not all right to go on a boat with only ten people?

I am not saying it is all right, but I don't see the difference.

These are both a bad idea.

Montanan · 03-04-2020, 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by waterman46

I do understand how one could characterize some of these posts as beating a dead horse. But IMHO in these times most of us will get quite frustrated at times, and having an outlet such as CF is good therapy. As long as the discussion is civil, and I believe it has been remarkably so, I applaud those who have thoughtfully contributed. Makes for good reading while isolated away from boat!

Montanan · 03-04-2020, 13:00

Back to the harsh reality. It ain't over until it is over. Reaching just the peak is a longways from being over, there will be a long tail.

8:48 a.m.
Number of infections in capital region sails past 5,000

The number of covid-19 cases in the national capital region sailed past 5,000 on Friday morning as fatalities climbed past the 100 mark.

The District added 104 new cases, its largest single-day increase. Of its 761 known patients, 15 have died.

Maryland added 427 cases and six new deaths. Prince George’s County saw the biggest jump in numbers, with 90 new cases, while neighboring Montgomery County, which has reported nine deaths, added 68 new cases.

D.C. Mayor Muriel E. Bowser announced Friday that the city projects one in seven residents will contract coronavirus, with the nation’s capital seeing a peak in hospitalized patients around late June and early July. But city government officials are relying on a different model than the one used by the federal government when White House officials said this week that the outbreak would peak later this month.

Mayor Muriel E. Bowser said Friday that officials estimate about 93,000 people could be become infected with covid-19 in the city, based on the District’s projections.

In neighboring Virginia, Gov. Ralph Northam (D) said Wednesday morning that he expects to see a peak in late April or late May. But he has not quantified the projection for Virginians like Bowser (D) has. Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan (R) has not released formal projections for his state.

Virginia added 306 known coronavirus cases Friday, while Maryland added 427 and the District added 104, putting the number of known cases in the greater Washington region at 5,535. The number of fatalities is 104 in the two states and the District.

Meanwhile preparations are being made for the worsening.
Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam (D) announced Friday that he has chosen three convention centers around the state to expand hospital capacity for an expected surge in coronavirus patients, which he said was projected to peak sometime in May.

They are: the Dulles Expo Center in the Chantilly area of Fairfax County, which can accommodate 315 acute or 510 non-acute beds; the Hampton Convention Center, which could hold 60 acute or 580 non-acute beds; and the Richmond Convention Center, which could house 432 acute or 758 non-acute beds.

Northam said the state is stepping back from a plan to use the former Exxon Mobil campus in the Merrifield area of Fairfax County, because the Dulles Expo site can be prepared more quickly. He also said the search continues in the western and southwest corners of the state should additional space be needed.

What does the difference in models mean? In short, the D.C. government is bracing for the worst. And using the more dire model is essentially a way to be safe rather than sorry. “We pray it’s wrong. We do,” Bowser said. “But we are looking at all of the modeling and we don’t think one that says we don’t need any additional beds is a model that would be safe preparation for the residents of the District of Columbia.”

ArmyDaveNY · 03-04-2020, 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montanan

Back to the harsh reality. It ain't over until it is over.

D.C. Mayor Muriel E. Bowser announced Friday that the city projects one in seven residents will contract coronavirus, ...
Mayor Muriel E. Bowser said Friday that officials estimate about 93,000 people could be become infected ...

The good news is that the majority of those infected have zero symptoms and the overwhelming majority of people have either no symptoms or mild symptoms. The other good news is that the mortality rate is relatively low.

Some epidemiologists are saying that this will not end until 80% if the population is exposed to it.

Montanan · 03-04-2020, 13:10

Well if recreational boating is banned, might I suggest taking up a new hobby or activity.

Montanan · 03-04-2020, 13:58

During the recreational boating ban, Marylanders might find Cowboy Pinball to be a novel and exhilarating activity. By keeping to your clearly marked, designated position you will be assured to maintain proper COVID-19 safe minimum social distancing. Some jurisdictions such as Maryland have imposed a maximum of persons at any one gathering, e.g., no more than 10, so larger events will require multiple pin ball games to be played each in turn so as to allow everyone their chance at some good clean fun. A fresh bull [i.e., ball] is introduced at the start of each Pin Ball game so there is no possibility of the bull being a virus vector to the players. Nota bene: The risk of the virus is typically a lesser safety concern than danger from the Pin Bull.

Whereas playing Bull Poker in Montana has been banned for the duration of the emergency because players are seated too close to each other gathered around the table in the arena, and there is the inevitable touching of shared playing cards and the exchange of betting chips between winners and losers. There being the exception allowed if all the players are of the same cohabitation grouping such that no intermingling with "outsiders" occurs. Bull Poker being a favorite of many of the High School Roughstock Team sports, but due to COVID-19, the school districts have shifted their learning to stay at home, on-line curriculum, therefore Bull Poker tournament play has been suspended anyway.

If you are bored and can't boat, there is always new activities to experience.

When we finally are allowed to get back together again and gather again with friends or return to work, you can look forward to telling everyone what you were up to during COVID-19 2020.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfwVdhFlbqs

Montanan · 03-04-2020, 15:51

Governor Larry Hogan has confirmed that Bobby Kennedy's granddaughter Maeve Kennedy Townsend McKean and her 8 year old son Gideon Joseph Kennedy McKean drowned following a boating accident on the South River near Annapolis, Thursday.

According to the Washington Post, Maeve's husband David confirmed that his wife and son were canoeing on the Chesapeake Bay Thursday, and have not been seen since. Per the Post, he said they were chasing a ball that had gone out into the water.

Maeve and Gideon “popped into a canoe to chase it down. They just got farther out then they could handle, and couldn’t get back in,” he said.

People reports that local authorities have also confirmed that a 40-year-old woman and 8-year-old boy went missing after they “appeared to be overtaken by the strong winds” while boating on Thursday.

Maeve and Gideon were last spotted near Herring Bay, and according to the Baltimore Sun, "Anne Arundel County fire officials say a concerned citizen called 911 around 4:30 p.m. Thursday to report that he saw the woman and her son in a small canoe or kayak from the Columbia Beach community pier."

A canoe matching the description of the one they were paddling while missing has reportedly been recovered, but the search for Maeve and Gideon continues, and we will continue to update this store as more news becomes available.

Maeve is the daughter of Kathleen Kennedy Townsend. She is also the granddaughter of Robert F. Kennedy and the grand-niece of President John F. Kennedy.