Maryland Bans Recreational Boating for the Duration

[garyfdl]

Originally Posted by Skipper Kenny

Bravo Brother; it's nice to not have to be the Lone Ranger all the time.

The regular seasonal flu killed 80,000 during the 2017 2018 season.

Why no police state style lockdown then?

I understand that people with comprised immune systems need to take precautions, but that is less than. 05% of the population.

Hardly worth shutting down the entire economy over.

Police state lockdown? Gimme a break.

And no, you don't understand.

The 2017-18 'regular' flu season (6-8 months?) 'killed' 80,000. As of today COVID-19 has killed almost 40,000, in about two months, with the country under "lockdown" as you call it. A simple (albeit unscientific) extrapolation is that we will lose 120,000 to 180,000 over the COVID-19 'season' under 'lockdown'. So yeah, it is worth slowing down the economy. Look what's happening at Smithfield in Sioux Falls. Now, imagine that scenario playing out simultaneously at plants all around the country. What do you think will happen to the economy then?

[ArmyDaveNY]

[QUOTE=letsgetsailing3;3120070]

Originally Posted by Sailshabby

False. You can mail order seeds. So no need to travel to the store and risk infecting yourself and others.

To me that's a sound principle. Please explain the urgency of buying seeds in person.

Please don't confuse it with false equivalencies or other items that are available for purchase. Just come up with a valid argument for why buying seeds in person should be deemed "essential".

You have the floor, sir.

You have conflated two distinct actions. You are correct that one can still mail order seeds. That however is completely different than growing one's own food.

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by garyfdl

Police state lockdown?

So yeah, it is worth slowing down the economy. Look what's happening at Smithfield in Sioux Falls.

Yale, BBC, the CDC, and many others all study or cite studies that show an increase in deaths and suicides (as distinct from the other deaths) due to economic distress.

During the Great Depression that started in 1929 suicides went from around 18 per 100,000 to over 22 per 100,000. That didn't count the other deaths from stress, etc.

Keep in mind that some are inflating the number of Covid19 deaths. Here in NYC they added just under 3,000 to the list of Covid19 deaths. This despite the fact that those added did NOT test positive for Covid19. The powers that be said they felt if was likely that they were Covid19 deaths.

Others who are listed as Covid19 deaths actually had other issues but also happened to have Covid19. N.B. I am not saying that this isn't serious. We do however need to have a balanced approach to how we handle and address things. Sadly, in the U.S. and many other countries we have not so far been balanced in our discussions about this.

[letsgetsailing3]

[QUOTE=ArmyDaveNY;3120091]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

You have conflated two distinct actions. You are correct that one can still mail order seeds. That however is completely different than growing one's own food.

I didn't mention growing food. So I'm not sure what you're talking about.

Please feel free to go back to my original quote and argue with it if you want.

The point was that it's a bit ridiculous to claim that the purchase of seeds in person (as opposed to online or mail order) is an essential activity.

[ArmyDaveNY]

[QUOTE=letsgetsailing3;3120173]

Originally Posted by ArmyDaveNY

I didn't mention growing food. So I'm not sure what you're talking about.

Please feel free to go back to my original quote and argue with it if you want.

The point was that it's a bit ridiculous to claim that the purchase of seeds in person (as opposed to online or mail order) is an essential activity.

You are correct that you didn't mention growing food, however you replied to I36Guy who said that one governor declared growing your own food was verboten.

Here is the quote:
"Originally Posted by I36guy
At least one governor has taken it upon herself to rule that growing one's own food (buying seed) is "non-essential" - hence illegal."
Your reply was that you can still order seeds from via mail order.

I suspect that you misread what he said, or confused what he said with ordering seeds for delivery.

No one said that it was illegal to order seeds nor did he even talk about picking up seeds in person.

[garyfdl]

Originally Posted by ArmyDaveNY

Yale, BBC, the CDC, and many others all study or cite studies that show an increase in deaths and suicides (as distinct from the other deaths) due to economic distress.

During the Great Depression that started in 1929 suicides went from around 18 per 100,000 to over 22 per 100,000. That didn't count the other deaths from stress, etc.

So, what's the point? Do you really think the numbers of deaths from "economic stress" will exceed the number of COVID-19 deaths that would occur, if we did nothing?

Again I bring up Smithfield. The plant in Sioux Falls reportedly produces 20% of the country's pork products. It's shut down. Now, imagine if that happens in businesses, government, schools, etc country wide - then how how many deaths and suicides due to "economic stress" will there be?

Fact is, what the government (of most states at least) is doing is working, IF they did it soon enough. I'm in Wisconsin. We started the "safer-at-home" a month ago, as soon as multiple cases started to show. And while while we have 'hot-spots' in high population areas, the rate of (known) infection, as a whole, has flat-lined.

Lifting restrictions right now would be like cutting loose from a parachute 100' above the ground because hey, it worked great for the first 9900'.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by ArmyDaveNY

I suspect that you misread what he said, or confused what he said with ordering seeds for delivery.

No one said that it was illegal to order seeds nor did he even talk about picking up seeds in person.

No governor outlawed anyone growing their own food. So that was just a misstatement.

The governor did restrict buying seed in person (in large stores), which was deemed "non-essential". They did that because they want folks to stay home. There are some nuances there which are eluding you.

My point is that the governor is right, as you can buy seed online.

I'm no fan of the governor of Michigan, but let's be reasonable here.

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

No governor outlawed anyone growing their own food. So that was just a misstatement.

Thank you for that clarification. That is where the confusion was; your answer didn't mention that he misunderstood what the governor actually said.

I agree that one doesn't need to buy those in person.

[austinsailor]

I went back a couple days and didn’t see this mentioned - hope it’s not duplicated. But, as to heading for the Bahamas, they are basically locked down more than if you were in the states. My friend who’se been in Georgetown, Exuma was locked down a week or more ago - only essential trips for food or fuel. No taking his dog to the beach, no inter island sailing. A couple days ago they clamped down more, no going even for food or fuel - arrangements had to be made for delivery. No moving out of the harbor to dump backwater (for those that did!), just sit.

Most islands south are closed down, most cruisers are headed back to the states, including my friend who was headed for the South Pacific.

[AKA-None]

Originally Posted by Tequesta

How do you arrive at a conclusion with no evidence and even less sense? Wow.

Ummm pictures in the paper good enough that many don’t get it?

[Popeye21]

Some of the comments here...wow.

There is no police state and your personal liberties are not being unduly restricted because you can't take your boat out right now.

I'm dying to get my boat out, too, but I understand the purpose of the order and support it.

I get that solo boating or boating only with people you live with endangers no one. If that were permitted, however, we all know that many (if not most) people out on the water with a group would just plan to say "we're all housemates" or whatever. Do we really want DNR cops to have to try to enforce that? (which is not possible)

Furthermore, there will always be boating incidents. Do we want our first responders and healthcare workers to have to deal with people who wanted to be able to have fun on the water right now?

I'm going to say NO to both of those.

I suspect that when they start to loosen restrictions that boating will be one of the first that they lighten up on. We'll all be OK until then.

Frankly, I don't get people who are running around screaming about government overreach and the constitution. Suck it up. People are suffering and dying. The great sacrifice asked of you is that you not go boating for a little while.

[altinr]

Originally Posted by rcolesny

That ban beyond mid June would be a real blow! I sincerely hope this is NOT coming to Long Island! I just spent ( alone and well distanced ) some 130 hours to install a new engine after my old Volvo blew last August. These visits to the boat were my sanity for the last weeks. And I almost always sail singlehanded. How would such a ban help reduce the rate of infection? EDUCATION is the role there and maybe some spot control by the coats guards and marine police...
Additionally, how many people does the marine industry employ? On Long Island, this is an important sector of the economy.

Long Island NY has about the highest infection rate in the country!!!

[DanCan]

Originally Posted by Popeye21

Some of the comments here...wow.

There is no police state and your personal liberties are not being unduly restricted because you can't take your boat out right now.

I'm dying to get my boat out, too, but I understand the purpose of the order and support it.

I get that solo boating or boating only with people you live with endangers no one. If that were permitted, however, we all know that many (if not most) people out on the water with a group would just plan to say "we're all housemates" or whatever. Do we really want DNR cops to have to try to enforce that? (which is not possible)

Furthermore, there will always be boating incidents. Do we want our first responders and healthcare workers to have to deal with people who wanted to be able to have fun on the water right now?

I'm going to say NO to both of those.

I suspect that when they start to loosen restrictions that boating will be one of the first that they lighten up on. We'll all be OK until then.

Frankly, I don't get people who are running around screaming about government overreach and the constitution. Suck it up. People are suffering and dying. The great sacrifice asked of you is that you not go boating for a little while.

Excellent comment with common sense. I personally dislike the prophets of doom that showed up lately with their usual fear mongering. Those are the folks that later demand immediate care assistance once they get into trouble.

[thinwater]

Restrictions would feel more like government over reach if the vast majority of people did not support them... but they do. We don't like it, and a some complain loudly (which they are allowed to), but the vast majority understand and support the lock downs.



I'm annoyed at few things, but these are tough times and it is not a "freedom" issue. There are always rules and most of them are good and most of them help.

[wannacat]

Popeye21 and Thinwater are totally right! Time to suck it up. Go do some of those things you've been putting off for years and forget about it. Before you know it this will all be over. Time to end this thread too!