Mickey Mouse, COVID and Martinique

[JAFO]

Originally Posted by jeanathon

And people who choose not to get vaccinated are not causing variants to emerge anymore than the vaccinated. Antibiotic resistance is not caused by people who don't use antibiotics, but rather by those who do.

Flawed analogy.

The virus quickly dies out in a vaccinated population. Smallpox and polio, for example.

In the unvaccinated, the virus can continue to spread, mutate, and evolve. Creating variants, in other words.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by jeanathon

Remember when only a few years ago only good bacteria were dead bacteria? Then we figured out we would not be alive if it were not for good bacteria digesting our foods and stuff?
In other words we started to know that there was a lot we didn't know. Now we are starting to find that we have many viruses that help us ...

You started off pretty well - then you went off the rails, descending into nonsense.

The word, virus, connotes morbidity and mortality, but that bad reputation is not universally deserved, says Marilyn Roossinck, PhD, Professor of Plant Pathology and Environmental Microbiology and Biology at the Pennsylvania State University, University Park.
"Viruses, like bacteria, can be important beneficial microbes in human health and in agriculture", she said.
Her review of the current literature [1] on beneficial viruses appeared in June 2015, in the Journal of Virology, which is published by the American Society for Microbiology.

[1] “Move Over, Bacteria! Viruses Make Their Mark as Mutualistic Microbial Symbionts” ~ by Marilyn J. Roossinck
➥ https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/JVI.02974-14


“Viruses Can Help Us as Well as Harm Us” ~ by David Pride

"Experts are figuring out how to exploit the 380 trillion viruses that make up the human virome ...
... Biologists estimate that 380 trillion viruses are living on and inside your body right now—10 times the number of bacteria. Some can cause illness, but many simply coexist with you. In late 2019, for example, researchers at the University of Pennsylvania discovered 19 different strains of redondovirus in the respiratory tract; a handful were associated with periodontal disease or lung disease, but others could possibly fight respiratory illnesses. Scientists' rapidly expanding knowledge makes it clear that we are not made up primarily of “human” cells that are occasionally invaded by microbes; our body is really a superorganism of cohabitating cells, bacteria, fungi and most numerous of all: viruses. The latest counts indicate that as much as half of all the biological matter in your body is not human ...”

Much more ➥ https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...ll-as-harm-us/



“Not All Viruses Are Bad For You. Here Are Some That Can Have a Protective Effect” ~ by Cynthia Mathew

“Viruses are mostly known for their aggressive and infectious nature.

It's true, most viruses have a pathogenic relationship with their hosts – meaning they cause diseases ranging from a mild cold to serious conditions like severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS). They work by invading the host cell, taking over its cellular machinery and releasing new viral particles that go on to infect more cells and cause illness.

But they're not all bad. Some viruses can actually kill bacteria, while others can fight against more dangerous viruses. So like protective bacteria (probiotics), we have several protective viruses in our body ...”

More ➥ https://www.sciencealert.com/not-all...tective-effect

[jeanathon]

Originally Posted by JAFO

Flawed analogy.

The virus quickly dies out in a vaccinated population. Smallpox and polio, for example.

In the unvaccinated, the virus can continue to spread, mutate, and evolve. Creating variants, in other words.

The flawed analogy is to compare the smallpox and polio vaccines to the covid shots. A closer analogy would be to compare it to the flu shot which has been around for awhile, but we still have the flu.

[jeanathon]

How so? You posted some quotes that agree with my statement.

Originally Posted by GordMay

You started off pretty well - then you went off the rails, descending into nonsense.

The word, virus, connotes morbidity and mortality, but that bad reputation is not universally deserved, says Marilyn Roossinck, PhD, Professor of Plant Pathology and Environmental Microbiology and Biology at the Pennsylvania State University, University Park.
"Viruses, like bacteria, can be important beneficial microbes in human health and in agriculture", she said.
Her review of the current literature [1] on beneficial viruses appeared in June 2015, in the Journal of Virology, which is published by the American Society for Microbiology.

[1] “Move Over, Bacteria! Viruses Make Their Mark as Mutualistic Microbial Symbionts” ~ by Marilyn J. Roossinck
➥ https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/JVI.02974-14


“Viruses Can Help Us as Well as Harm Us” ~ by David Pride

"Experts are figuring out how to exploit the 380 trillion viruses that make up the human virome ...
... Biologists estimate that 380 trillion viruses are living on and inside your body right now—10 times the number of bacteria. Some can cause illness, but many simply coexist with you. In late 2019, for example, researchers at the University of Pennsylvania discovered 19 different strains of redondovirus in the respiratory tract; a handful were associated with periodontal disease or lung disease, but others could possibly fight respiratory illnesses. Scientists' rapidly expanding knowledge makes it clear that we are not made up primarily of “human” cells that are occasionally invaded by microbes; our body is really a superorganism of cohabitating cells, bacteria, fungi and most numerous of all: viruses. The latest counts indicate that as much as half of all the biological matter in your body is not human ...”

Much more ➥ https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...ll-as-harm-us/



“Not All Viruses Are Bad For You. Here Are Some That Can Have a Protective Effect” ~ by Cynthia Mathew

“Viruses are mostly known for their aggressive and infectious nature.

It's true, most viruses have a pathogenic relationship with their hosts – meaning they cause diseases ranging from a mild cold to serious conditions like severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS). They work by invading the host cell, taking over its cellular machinery and releasing new viral particles that go on to infect more cells and cause illness.

But they're not all bad. Some viruses can actually kill bacteria, while others can fight against more dangerous viruses. So like protective bacteria (probiotics), we have several protective viruses in our body ...”

More ➥ https://www.sciencealert.com/not-all...tective-effect

[JAFO]

Originally Posted by jeanathon

The flawed analogy is to compare the smallpox and polio vaccines to the covid shots. A closer analogy would be to compare it to the flu shot which has been around for awhile, but we still have the flu.

The flawed analogy here is the comparison to the flu shots. Only a very small percentage of the population even gets the flu shot. Which is why we still have the flu around. And why it continues to mutate into a new variant every year.

Many thanks for helping make my point!

[jeanathon]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

If people choose to not get vaccinated, but then insist that they also don't have to observe any other restrictions like masks, no travel, and not attending public events or gatherings, then they're helping prolong the pandemic. Longer pandemic, more opportunity for variants. It's that simple.

Consider this. The day I started feeling weird(wed.) I went home, called someone who had already recovered from covid to deliver food and a test kit, the next day I took the test(positive), and isolated till I got better.
A friend who is double vaccinated called me on Thursday to say he was coming up for the weekend. I told him he could not I had just tested positive. He came anyway. My next door neighbor who is double vaccinated and excited for his booster shot came over every day he saw me in my hammock trying to read a book even though I asked him to stay away while I isolated.
From my perspective it is the crazy vaxxers who are driving this latest surge with their irresponsible (I can't spread it) behavior.
Consider also. I took two different tests(antigen and pcr), and neither one could distinguish which form or variant I had. The could only tell me I was positive. Last night I spoke at length with a health care professional, and I asked him which tests could distinguish a variant and he knew of none. He did a quick search on his phone and could not answer the question.
Now the news tell me 20 times a day that this surge is driven by the delta variant, but with so few tests able to distinguish which variant I say the news is speculating(they have never done that). If I were to speculate I would lay the blame on the face talking vaxxers.

[jeanathon]

Originally Posted by JAFO

The flawed analogy here is the comparison to the flu shots. Only a very small percentage of the population even gets the flu shot. Which is why we still have the flu around. And why it continues to mutate into a new variant every year.

Many thanks for helping make my point!

Gord posted some good info about the polio vaccine. You don't have polio breakthrough cases for two reasons efficacy and amount of existing spread.
Ever known someone who got the flu after getting the flu shot? Yeah me too. Better than half of them I would guess.

[sagablu]

Originally Posted by JAFO

The flawed analogy here is the comparison to the flu shots. Only a very small percentage of the population even gets the flu shot. Which is why we still have the flu around. And why it continues to mutate into a new variant every year.

Many thanks for helping make my point!

Totally agree with your point, but also consider that the flu vaccine is often a poor match to The strain that actually ends up in the population. The flu vaccine is often a 40 to 60% match, I'm not going to throw a number out because I don't know the exact but even with Delta the covid vaccine is a much better match. Flu is much more likely to mutate than Covid. However I'm sure with the high level of unvaccinated people kicking around, will end up with a new strain that is a poor match for the vaccine. I'll be sure to give them my heart felt thanks.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by jeanathon

Consider also. I took two different tests(antigen and pcr), and neither one could distinguish which form or variant I had. The could only tell me I was positive. Last night I spoke at length with a health care professional, and I asked him which tests could distinguish a variant and he knew of none. He did a quick search on his phone and could not answer the question.

The quickie tests don't nail down the variant, but there's obviously better and more elaborate testing available and being done... else how could anyone even discover variants?

If I were to speculate I would lay the blame on the face talking vaxxers.

No need to speculate; just look around. It's not the "vaxxers" gathering without masks or distancing to protest against masks, restrictions, vaccinations.

[jeanathon]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

The quickie tests don't nail down the variant, but there's obviously better and more elaborate testing available and being done... else how could anyone even discover variants?



No need to speculate; just look around. It's not the "vaxxers" gathering without masks or distancing to protest against masks, restrictions, vaccinations.

Did you read my post that you are arguing with. The PCR test is not a quickie test. The physician I was talking with could not locate a test that provided that info.


And it was only vaxxers who wouldn't leave me alone after I told them I had covid and no they did not wear masks while they were in my personal space. My other friends who were not vaccinated steered clear of me while I was sick.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by jeanathon

How so? You posted some quotes that agree with my statement.

Your opening statement was somewhat correct, if unsupported.
Your conclusions didn't follow the facts.

... In other words we started to know that there was a lot we didn't know.
The brighter amongst us have always known that there was a lot we don't know.

Now we are starting to find that we have many viruses that help us.
We started finding that a while ago.

And people who choose not to get vaccinated are not causing variants to emerge anymore than the vaccinated.
Preposterous!

Antibiotic resistance is not caused by people who don't use antibiotics, but rather by those who do.
Irrelevant, and not quite true.

If you are at risk and you think other people should get vaccinated because you are, then it is time to turn off the t.v., go outside, get some exercise and leave other people to their personal decisions ...
We’re all at risk, until none of us are.

[jeanathon]

Well this has been a good run, but I have spent too much time on this.
I am old enough to remember when the media told us Africanized honey bees were going to kill us all, then it was the killer ants marching north from South America to kill all the Norta Americanos, most recently it was Japanese murder hornets killing us all.
This pandemic has been the best gift to the media they could have ever hoped for. They have been saying every hour for days that no vaccinated people are dying in this latest surge then when that was found to be a lie I heard exactly one retraction before they went mum and swept it under the rug.

Parrot the medias baseless claims if you want or think for yourselves. Your life, your choice. My life, my choice. Or should I say my body, my choice.

[ixnax]

Originally Posted by jeanathon

Thank you. No not too bad. Like most colds I have had in my life. Had worse, but have had easier.
No vaccine. Less comfortable with it than faith in my immune system. I don't do flu vaccines either, but of course have had the polio style ones as that is a different animal.

"but of course have had the polio style ones as that is a different animal"

Is that right? You actually made your own decision to get the Polio Vaccine? Clever you.

[jeanathon]

Originally Posted by ixnax

"but of course have had the polio style ones as that is a different animal"

Is that right? You actually made your own decision to get the Polio Vaccine? Clever you.

Did NOT say I decided to get the polio vaccine. I said I had it because it is a different animal which is an expression. The point being is that the covid vaccines are not at all like the polio vaccine so people should stop making comparisons between the two. Or if you like. Comparing the polio vaccine and covid vaccine is like comparing apples and oranges.
I can explain it to you, but I cannot understand it for you. Good luck.

[ixnax]

Originally Posted by jeanathon

Did NOT say I decided to get the polio vaccine. I said I had it because it is a different animal which is an expression. The point being is that the covid vaccines are not at all like the polio vaccine so people should stop making comparisons between the two. Or if you like. Comparing the polio vaccine and covid vaccine is like comparing apples and oranges.
I can explain it to you, but I cannot understand it for you. Good luck.

What you aren't grasping is that someone decided that you and society would be safer from harm if you were inoculated against Polio. That also includes measles, chickenpox and mumps. That's assuming your parents also decided that the school deciding that the other kids in school had a right to be protected from you was a properly decided thing. In that sense it is exactly apples to apples.