Northern Europe during Pandemic -- Summers 2020 & 2021 & onwards

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

That's amazing. Great for the Brits. So the death rate should be dramatically reduced within a month I guess?

Everyone is accelerating vaccinations programmes, here in Ireland , we will complete nursing homes and front line healthcare by next week second shots already starting . GPs and chemists are now being lined up next as the Astra is due in large volumes and this will be administered via GPs and chemists

Nobody believes the mass process will start until that happens. But the expectation is large volumes will have been administered by the summer

I think all Govs know this is the last lockdown short of armed enforcement. Societal cohesion is breaking done through fatigue and everyone is fed up. Heh e this is the last One. Once the hospitalisation rates fall and or stabilise , the clamour for normal life will be deafening

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Everyone is accelerating vaccinations programmes, here in Ireland , we will complete nursing homes and front line healthcare by next week second shots already starting . GPs and chemists are now being lined up next as the Astra is due in large volumes and this will be administered via GPs and chemists

Nobody believes the mass process will start until that happens. But the expectation is large volumes will have been administered by the summer

I think all Govs know this is the last lockdown short of armed enforcement. Societal cohesion is breaking done through fatigue and everyone is fed up. Heh e this is the last One. Once the hospitalisation rates fall and or stabilise , the clamour for normal life will be deafening

I wonder what we would be facing had we not managed to develop these vaccines so fast, or had they not been so effective? The thought is horrifying.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I wonder what we would be facing had we not managed to develop these vaccines so fast, or had they not been so effective? The thought is horrifying.

Terrifying , imagine this current uk strain without a vaccine , shudder , it would be the end of civil liberties in my opinion , leading to huge civil unrest and massive societal division

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

... I think all Govs know this is the last lockdown short of armed enforcement. Societal cohesion is breaking done through fatigue and everyone is fed up. Heh e this is the last One. Once the hospitalisation rates fall and or stabilise , the clamour for normal life will be deafening

Not everyone is overwhelmed by Covid Fatigue.
A majority of Canadians seem to favour various public health restrictions, to varying degrees.

“Majority of Canadians in recent poll support stricter COVID-19 lockdowns, hefty fines for rulebreakers”
The results come as governments in Alberta, Ontario and Quebec have imposed stringent lockdowns as a way to curb rising COVID-19 cases.
The Maru/Blue Public Opinion survey found that 89 per cent of respondents support keeping the Canada-U.S. border closed, as well as forcing international travellers to provide negative COVID-19 tests before returning to Canada.
But respondents also supported further measures, like forcing people to stay home except for essential purposes — grocery shopping, securing medication or getting vaccinated. A majority also supported broad-based school closures.
➥ https://nationalpost.com/news/majori...r-rulebreakers

"Majority of Canadians in favour of holiday lockdown to help fight coronavirus surge: poll"
Sixty-five per cent of respondents in the poll conducted by Leger and the Association for Canadian Studies said they supported a general lockdown in their province during Christmas and New Year’s to tackle the pandemic versus 29 per cent who opposed the idea.
➥ https://globalnews.ca/news/7522651/m...iday-lockdown/

“COVID-19: Two-in-three Canadians say borders should be closed to keep sun-seekers close to home”
New data from the non-profit Angus Reid Institute finds a majority in this country would close the border to quell discretionary travel. Two-thirds (65%) say if the decision were up to them, they would prohibit personal travel. One-quarter (26%) would maintain the federal government’s current approach, which has been to strongly discourage such travel, but not disallow it. Indeed, flights to common sun or beach destinations continue to leave regularly from Canadian airports.
Angus Reid ➥ COVID-19: Two-in-three Canadians say borders should be closed to keep sun-seekers close to home - Angus Reid Institute

“Itching for injection: Number of Canadians who say they want to be vaccinated ASAP against COVID-19 surges”
In a one-month span, the number of people saying they plan to be inoculated as soon as possible has increased 12 percentage points, with a firm majority (60%) now willing, and waiting.
➥ Itching for injection: Number of Canadians who say they want to be vaccinated ASAP against COVID-19 surges - Angus Reid Institute

[laird]

If anyone is winning from this covid problem, its got to be the chinese , every bit of PPE ice been given has been manufactured in china , today's hand out has been a box containing 20 self test kits , the kits cost £80.00 a pop ,each box cost £1600.00 scale that up over the engineering teams alone approximately 500 guys ,the chinese must be rubbing their hands

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Not everyone is overwhelmed by Covid Fatigue.
A majority of Canadians seem to favour various public health restrictions, to varying degrees.

“Majority of Canadians in recent poll support stricter COVID-19 lockdowns, hefty fines for rulebreakers”

Apparently the same goes in the UK at the moment. I was browsing through a government website for some data and found that “88% of people surveyed supporting or strongly supporting restrictions where they live.” The entire UK is currently in “stay at home” lockdown, about as restrictive as it gets.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...dup/2020-03-26

This may not be representative, but I suspect it is. I think the current death rate would be driving this.

However, as Goboatingnow pointed put earlier regarding Ireland, I do think that the UK is desperate for an end to this.

Originally Posted by GordMay

“Itching for injection: Number of Canadians who say they want to be vaccinated ASAP against COVID-19 surges”
In a one-month span, the number of people saying they plan to be inoculated as soon as possible has increased 12 percentage points, with a firm majority (60%) now willing, and waiting.

This actually concerns me a lot. Once the vulnerable are protected, the crisis is over. Long covid may be an issue, but why not wait at least six months or a year until initial trials are completed and we have more data?

I hope this will end up being a groundless fear, but very real risks exist with mass vaccination of young healthy people at extremely low risk of serious illness, including those of a reproductive age, with vaccines using new technology that temporarily genetically modify proteins our bodies produce. Particularly since these vaccines have been have been barely trialled at all. One week following the second dose is all the data we currently have for both the Pfizer and Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccines.

The public are not being adequately informed regarding this. Note I have not added “I think” here.

Even worse, it is being repeated the vaccines are “safe”, lulling people into false security. The risks may be small, but the danger is catastrophic.

During this first phase of vaccination the UK is not including anyone under the age of 50 if they are not vulnerable or a health or care worker. Thankfully there is no mention at all of the vaccine being mandatory. This is a direct contrast to Australia where it seems the vaccine will be made “as mandatory as possible” even to the point of this becoming law in some cases. Vaccinating children in Phase 5 is even being discussed.

[goboatingnow]

Even worse, it is being repeated the vaccines are “safe”, lulling people into false security. The risks may be small, but the danger is catastrophic.

,maybe maybe , but in reality noone is listening SL. Ive read as much since as I can on the mRNA , is a very safe method as its so targeted .

a drowning population clutch straws , thats the reality

This actually concerns me a lot. Once the vulnerable are protected, the crisis is over. Long covid may be an issue, but why not wait at least six months or a year until initial trials are completed and we have more data?

The definition of " numerable " is quite large , I personally know adults in the early 40s with extremely bad doses of this virus requiring hospitalisation. SO whats " vunerable"

Everyone will need to be vaccinated thats the reality

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

,maybe maybe , but in reality noone is listening SL. Ive read as much since as I can on the mRNA , is a very safe method as its so targeted .

a drowning population clutch straws , thats the reality



The definition of " numerable " is quite large , I personally know adults in the early 40s with extremely bad doses of this virus requiring hospitalisation. SO whats " vunerable"

Everyone will need to be vaccinated thats the reality

You and I must be living in alternate realities.

If I respond by repeating my thoughts on this, including known safety of these new vaccines, I will risk sounding like a broken record so I will resist .

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

You and I must be living in alternate realities.

If I respond by repeating my thoughts on this, including known safety of these new vaccines, I will risk sounding like a broken record so I will resist .

no you are expressing a viewpoint , I am relaying Government policy , Tell me a Eu country where the Gov tends to stop " after a while "

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

no you are expressing a viewpoint , I am relaying Government policy , Tell me a Eu country where the Gov tends to stop " after a while "

I am not falling for that .
From now on I am staying out of making any comments regarding things I know nothing about.

I do know there are discussions in Australia about making COVID-19 vaccination mandatory to an as yet unspecified degree. Is any other country considering doing that for its citizens other than perhaps China? I would be interested to know. I do not just mean restricting certain unessential activities.

Restricting travel between countries if unvaccinated is another matter. People have a choice regarding this.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

I am not falling for that .
From now on I am staying out of making any comments regarding things I know nothing about.

I do know there are discussions in Australia about making COVID-19 vaccination mandatory to an as yet unspecified degree. Is any other country considering doing that for its citizens other than perhaps China? I would be interested to know. I do not just mean restricting certain unessential activities.

Restricting travel between countries if unvaccinated is another matter. People have a choice regarding this.

I was addressing the opinion there is no need to vaccinate beyond this defined as vulnerable , to my understanding every country intends to vaccinate everyone , or more correctly offer it to everyone

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I was addressing the opinion there is no need to vaccinate beyond this defined as vulnerable , to my understanding every country intends to vaccinate everyone , or more correctly offer it to everyone

That was not quite what I meant. I must have expressed myself badly.

The people most at risk of serious disease and death are well known. There will of course be outliers, but the UK government has stated (and I have no reason to believe the numbers are incorrect as we now have 10 months of data) that if you include all those over 50, carers and health workers, plus those with the 14 significant co-morbidities specified:
“It is estimated that taken together, these groups represent around 99% of preventable mortality from COVID-19.”

https://assets.publishing.service.go...20-revised.pdf

Weighing risk vs benefit for this group, offering them a vaccine that is approved only for limited use (eg emergency or conditional) is very sensible. Vital in fact, given the crisis. Governments need to present this honestly though, not simply say the vaccine is “safe”.

Once the death rate is slashed, I would consider it prudent to wait until the initial trials are completed before offering the vaccine to others considered at low risk.

If governments decide to offer these minimally tested vaccines to everyone over 16-18 before then, full information should be provided beforehand regarding the lack of complete testing, the mode of action, known side effects etc. Sheets including information such as this are included with therapeutic drugs, this is nothing novel. Informed consent should be sought before vaccination.

I think once deaths drop back dramatically, the urgency will disappear, people will stop panicking and it will allow them to carefully consider whether or not they wish to be vaccinated.

In my opinion, it would be ideal to have several years of trialling/use before those at low risk are vaccinated in large numbers. In addition, I have read nothing to indicate there is any benefit to children with no co-morbidities being vaccinated, just the opposite. A mute point for now, as children have not been included in any trials as yet.

Just my two cents.

[laird]

There would seem that there is a real driving force behind the UK,s roll out of the vaccine, the news media is constantly updating the information on centers offering the vacine , the numbers today make grim readings over 93k dead , it's a cruel guess as to where it will end ,if it will ever end , it's a real possibility that this will take a head count every year in the same manner that flu does
The last figures that I read stated that only 2% of fatalities were amongst those under 50 ,but how many of them are ending up with long covid ? There are some people below the edge of 50 being given the vaccine perhaps they can be seen as a yardstick
I'm in the second tier of people to be vacinated and I'm told it should be by mid February

[UFO]

Originally Posted by laird

it's a real possibility that this will take a head count every year in the same manner that flu does

I think you are correct here, it is something that we will have to live with, some years better and some worse for mortality. But like the Flu if you target vaccinations to those that are an at risk group (which we have a good understanding of now) you will seriously curb mortality and bring it down inline with the Flu and as both the Flu and Covid seem to target similar groups you will probably see a drop off in flu deaths.


I think the trouble is that the media has driven such a frenzy of fear and paranoia around this that it may be hard for leaders and some of the populace to accept that scenario. Death is a part of life on this planet and when almost 60,000,000 die every year of whatever cause, then Covid is just another thing that can kill you and when the average age of death is generally greater than the average age of population, then it is likely that many of those that succumb would have died of something else like the flu in the very near future - We don't live forever!

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by UFO

......... I am certainly not against vaccinations or pharma drugs as long as they are not mandatory.

We might not agree on many covid aspects but I strongly agree with you on the above.