Northern Europe during Pandemic -- Summers 2020 & 2021 & onwards

[dannc]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

...

This is not a big problem in this region -- quality N95 respirators are freely available here, stacked up on tables in every pharmacy and selling for €8 for a box of 10...

I have not seen N95 masks to buy, I have not heard of anyone buying them since the supply ran out early in the lock down, nor have I seen anyone wearing one.

The fast majority of masks I see are of dubious effectiveness with many being home made. I see a few surgical masks here and there.

Years ago, when the swine flu was going to be The Pandemic, I was issued an N95 mask and trained in how to do a proper fit. Kept that mask all of these years, and when the lock down hit, I used that mask. Unfortunately lost it after a few months and have to use a mask of unknown usefulness.

The lack of N95 masks in the US is really one of the things people should be complaining about.

While the overall numbers are going down in many places, the UK and I think I saw Irish governments, have said restrictions will be in place in 2022...

Later,
Dan

[Dockhead]

The little corner of heaven where I live and sail:





Just to give some geographical context to this thread.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

The little corner of heaven where I live and sail:


Attachment 232318


Just to give some geographical context to this thread.

Having read much about the history of this region over the years, modern and historic, this snapshot of the region makes it all seem so "close." Went to Google Earth and sure enough, the straight line distance btwn Stockholm and St. Petersburg, for e.g., is less than 400nm. And yet their respective histories and culture make them seem world's apart. It must be interesting, especially by sail.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

The little corner of heaven where I live and sail:


Attachment 232318


Just to give some geographical context to this thread.

It’s going to be a while before we make it to that part of the world, but we really want to cruise that part of the Baltic you show (Polish heritage), plus the Swedish and Norwegian coasts and the offshore islands such as Iceland, Jan Mayan, Svalbard, Faroe and Shetland. For some reason much more so than the Med, but if we’re up that way I’m sure we’ll go down there too. Our boat came with courtesy flags for all the countries surrounding the Med and it would be fun to put them to use again.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Exile

Having read much about the history of this region over the years, modern and historic, this snapshot of the region makes it all seem so "close." Went to Google Earth and sure enough, the straight line distance btwn Stockholm and St. Petersburg, for e.g., is less than 400nm. And yet their respective histories and culture make them seem world's apart. It must be interesting, especially by sail.

Stockholm and St. Petersburg are not actually worlds apart at all.



The Swedish Empire was the main historical enemy and rival of the Russian Empire in Europe (ironically given 20th century history, not Germany at all), so Stockholm and St. Petersburg are a bit like London and Paris. Sweden is today a small country of 10 million people, but in the Middle Ages and Early Modern period Sweden was one of Europe's Great Powers and the Swedish Empire covered a big part of Northern Europe. The area in my clip was more or less all in play between the Swedes and Russians for centuries, and the Swedes and Russians fought each other all over there. But the biggest battlefield was, for centuries, the Eastern 1/3 of Sweden bordering Russia, namely Finland. The wars there went on until 1809 when the borders between the empires was finally fixed, as Russia tore away the Eastern 1/3 of Sweden proper and turned it into the Grand Duchy of Finland under the Russian crown. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...sia_and_Sweden.



There is a great deal of common culture between Russia and Sweden, and even more with Finland. As they say up here -- clear spirits, black bread, banya (or sauna). You might not know this, but Russia itself was founded as a state by Varangians, or Vikings, from Sweden. The "Rus" were a Swedish tribe or perhaps a gang of Varangians; the etymology has something to do with "rowers". The Rus may have come from Roslagen, the Northern part of the Stockholm Archipelago. To this day, the Finnish word for Sweden is "Ruotsi", cognate with "Russia" (so for the Finns, Sweden is Russia and Russia is "Venäjä" ). The Russian state was founded in the 9th century in Novgorod by Varangians; the first Varangian prince of Novgorod and ruler of the new Rus state, Rurik, no doubt a speaker of Old Norse, was the founder of the ruling dynasty of Russia which lasted for 700 years.



So you see Sweden and Russia are intimately connected for more than a 1000 years.


Other influences in the region are Poland-Lithuania, which covered the whole Baltic coastline from Gdansk to Pärnu at its peak, and of course the Teutonic Knights, who founded Tallinn, Riga, Königsberg, etc. and which in their time controlled all that territory PLUS all of Estonia as far as Narva.


So when you wandering around this part of the world, you might, as in Estonia for example, run across an ancient Swedish fortress, an ancient Russian one, or an ancient German one. In Riga and Tallinn there are plenty of people with German surnames, descendants of Baltic Germans, and German is still popular as a third foreign language (after Russian and English). But the Swedes and Russians are the main influences.

[JacobC1989]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Vaccine Travel Passport???

A British official says the country is not considering issuing so-called “immunity passports” for those who have been given the coronavirus vaccine but they could ask their doctor for written proof of their vaccine status if they need to travel. Vaccines Minister Nadhim Zahawi said Sunday that vaccine passports would be discriminatory and officials did not want getting vaccinated to be “made in some way mandatory through a passport.”

Countries including Greece have said they will waive quarantine requirements for those who have had their jabs.

How about the 25+ Million who contracted Covid-19 and have antibodies now, doesn't that count as vaccination, aren't they immune?

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by JacobC1989

How about the 25+ Million who contracted Covid-19 and have antibodies now, doesn't that count as vaccination, aren't they immune?

French plan to give one shot of vaccine for those to be sure..

[UFO]

Hallelujah Someone in Power has eventually seen the light.


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-56050119

[GordMay]

Denmark (and Sweden?) say they are developing systems for digital vaccine certification, known as "vaccine passports," allowing travelers to prove they have had an anti-coronavirus injection. The scheme will act as record for anyone wishing to travel - both domestically and internationally to countries that require proof of inoculation.

More ➥ https://www.healthcaredenmark.dk/new...for-travelers/

And ➥ https://newseu.cgtn.com/news/2021-02...xfO/index.html

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by JacobC1989

How about the 25+ Million who contracted Covid-19 and have antibodies now, doesn't that count as vaccination, aren't they immune?

There is no long term immunity. You can catch Covid just like flu - every season again and again.


https://www.economist.com/the-americ...y-it-was-wrong


https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...183-5/fulltext


Hence the vaccination will have to be repeated too (my guess, I am not a virologist).


And some vaccines do not work with some strains (read news from RSA for that).



Enjoy reading.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

There is no long term immunity. You can catch Covid just like flu - every season again and again.

https://www.economist.com/the-americ...y-it-was-wrong

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...183-5/fulltext

Hence the vaccination will have to be repeated too (my guess, I am not a virologist)...

The Lancet article doesn't, exactly, support your contention (that there is no long term immunity).

[barnakiel]

Meanwhile the WHO recommended Astra Zeneca shot for people over 65 - despite Germany finding its efficacy in this group to be way below levels claimed by the company - (efficacy possibly as low as 10%.)


They are disputing this, but I would trust Germans, not WHO. One look at vital statistics of how Germany deals with the pandemics is enough to understand they know what they are doing there.


Us here, in the EU, we still remember how the WHO mishandled the swine flu pandemics. There is no need to trust an institution that has been found to lie and promote drugs from befriended companies. If we want this pandemics to be over one day, we must avoid falling into same old traps over and again.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by GordMay

The Lancet article doesn't, exactly, support your contention (that there is no long term immunity).

But the information coming from Brazil clearly does, does it not?


https://science.sciencemag.org/content/371/6526/230


There is no long term immunity.


You Gord can have your opinion, but information coming from Brazil shows people get Covid twice within 12 months.


And so does my friend Carla here, a hospital nurse, who got it twice - one time in the spring pandemics last year, another time two weeks ago. Except this time she ended on a hospital bed.


There is no long term immunity from Covid. We can get it many times. And we can get it every year.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

But the information coming from Brazil clearly does, does it not?
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/371/6526/230 ...

Originally Posted by GordMay

The Lancet article doesn't, exactly, support your contention (that there is no long term immunity).

No, it does not.
Not my opinion, but those of your cited sources.
Note the title of the cited paper: “Herd immunity by infection is not an option”
and the authors’ statement:
“... What the findings of Buss et al. definitively show is that pursuing herd immunity through naturally acquired infection is not a strategy that can be considered. Achieving herd immunity through infection will be very costly in terms of mortality and morbidity, with little guarantee of success. Although the duration and effectiveness of immunity in reducing transmission with vaccination is unclear, experience across several infectious diseases suggests that immunity can be boosted safely through vaccination, if required ...”

[Seaworthy Lass]

This relates to the UK not specifically Northern Europe during the pandemic, but I thought we all needed some light relief.

One family has made good use of their enforced time together and released this YouTube:

https://youtu.be/vYmSAMcwXA8