Northern Europe during Pandemic -- Summers 2020 & 2021 & onwards

[GordMay]

Many scientists think COVID-19 might become an endemic disease, much like influenza.
Nonetherless, the risks of Covid-19 far outweigh the likely risks of vaccination(s).

See ➥ https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3368936

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Many scientists think COVID-19 might become an endemic disease, much like influenza.
Nonetherless, the risks of Covid-19 far outweigh the likely risks of vaccination(s).

See ➥ https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3368936

Gord, that broad conclusion cannot be drawn at this stage.
All we can say at the moment is that for the first few months following vaccination of adults the risks of COVID-19 far outweigh the likely risks of vaccination.

Children have barely been affected by the virus itself during this pandemic.
Fewer actually died in 2020 than in previous years. If there are any long term problems with the mRNA and DNA vaccines in years to come, it would be devastating to be repeatedly mass vaccinating the entire world’s next generation against COVID-19.

Why are we contemplating taking this risk for a virus that is likely to be endemic and poses negligible problems for the young?

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Gord, that broad conclusion cannot be drawn at this stage.
All we can say at the moment is that for the first few months following vaccination of adults the risks of COVID-19 far outweigh the likely risks of vaccination.

Children have barely been affected by the virus itself during this pandemic.
Fewer actually died in 2020 than in previous years. If there are any long term problems with the mRNA and DNA vaccines in years to come, it would be devastating to be repeatedly mass vaccinating the entire world’s next generation against COVID-19.

Why are we contemplating taking this risk for a virus that is likely to be endemic and poses negligible problems for the young?

One reason, generally speaking, is that some risk groups taking vaccines or medication is not possible and if there's a lot of unvaccinated people around their risk of getting serious ilnesses is much higher..

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

... Why are we contemplating taking this risk [vaccination] for a virus that is likely to be endemic and poses negligible problems for the young?

Good question, to which I have no good answer [yet ].

"... If the virus can be adequately contained, aspects of life could return to more normal, even if parts of a population are still unvaccinated. We may not need to be at the herd immunity threshold, to relax restrictions, if we can get the virus to be so uncommon in the population, that there won't be a risk of people being exposed to it, whether they're vaccinated or not ..."

This is why it's so important to continue to heed public health measures, that have been in place throughout the pandemic, such as practicing social distancing, wearing masks, and avoiding gatherings with unvaccinated peotple.

See also ➥ https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3368995

[boatman61]

Shareholders..
Cynic 61..

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/PFE/holders

https://markets.businessinsider.com/...0-5-1029212351

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/bntx/holders

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Good question, to which I have no good answer [yet ].

"... If the virus can be adequately contained, aspects of life could return to more normal, even if parts of a population are still unvaccinated. We may not need to be at the herd immunity threshold, to relax restrictions, if we can get the virus to be so uncommon in the population, that there won't be a risk of people being exposed to it, whether they're vaccinated or not ..."

My quick response to this is we can relax restrictions and allow life to return closer to normal by simply vaccinating the vulnerable and letting children (and others) develop natural immunity. Why risk vaccinating the young to achieve this?

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

My quick response to this is we can relax restrictions and allow life to return closer to normal by simply vaccinating the vulnerable and letting children (and others) develop natural immunity. Why risk vaccinating the young to achieve this?

As I understand it, none of the currently authorised vaccines are recommended, for those under 18 [edit] 16 years old.

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by GordMay

As I understand it, none of the currently authorised vaccines are recommended, for those under 18 [edit] 16 years old.

AZ is 18, Pfizer is 16, however, initial trials on children have commenced:
https://www.nihr.ac.uk/news/first-ch...ial-open/26870

There is not one murmur about not vaccinating children. Quite the opposite. They are listed as forming Phase 3 in Australia once approval is gained.

Also:
“Anthony Fauci, director of the US National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, has said that high school students across the country should be able to get a vaccine in the autumn.”:
https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n723

Children are of particular concern to me, as decisions are being made for them and they have decades or life (and all their reproductive years) ahead of them. At least the over 18 year olds can decide for themselves.

The risk of dying from COVID-19 for the under 40’s without co-morbidities is extremely low. I will find some stats in a moment. Mass vaccination of this “young” portion of the population with new forms of vaccines trialled for such a very short time is just not wise in my opinion.

[Seaworthy Lass]

Below is the graph of infection fatality ratio (IFR) vs age published by Nature in Nov 2020:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2918-0

This is not the general risk of dying from COVID-19, but only the risk of dying when you have a confirmed case.

For those aged 80+ the IFR is 1 in 10

For those aged 20-29 it is around 1 in 10,000

For those aged 5-14 it is less than 1 in 100,000

This includes all those with co-morbidities. The figures are likely to actually be even less in the “young” as the infection is often symptom free (or symptoms are minor) so unless I missed something in the article, all these people are not being tested and therefore included in the statistics.

Children are not going to be widely vaccinated until initial trials are completed, but large numbers of 18-40 year olds are soon to be included. I think those with no co-morbidities should think very carefully about this given the long term risks with these vaccines are totally unknown. It is not just because these particular vaccines are new. mRNA and DNA vaccines had never before been approved for human use prior to this pandemic.

Note that the scale has been made exponential, as otherwise half the graph would be close to zero:

[TeddyDiver]

From epidemiologistics standpoint it's math. The risk of dying for Covid 1:10 000 vs risk of dying of vaccination 1:1 000 000 or what ever, so long as the former risk is higher there's a reason for vaccinations.

[El Pinguino]

By the time we start vaccinating younger people in Australia I am sure the risks will be well known.....and like pretty much every other country it is voluntary.

One problem I see here and in New Zealand is that people think that Covid will be eradicated not just in these two countries but globaly and that we shall never see it here ever again.... even after we open our borders again.
I don't think Slomo has figured out how to let the general public know that - after we open our borders -it will be back and like the flu will kill....... just not in a totally out of control manner.

Talking of totally out of control.... I suggest all anti-maskers, anti vaccers, anti crowd control, 'it will be gone in the spring' people take a look at Bolsonaro's Brasil.
I'll let the figures speak for themselves...
https://www.worldometers.info/corona...ountry/brazil/

You can do your own research on Bolsonaro but here is a snippet..
'“Vitamin D is a way to prevent the virus from seriously affecting you. And where do you get vitamin D? From the sun. Such hypocrisy,” said the far-right leader.'

https://en.mercopress.com/2021/03/20...-into-the-city

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

From epidemiologistics standpoint it's math. The risk of dying for Covid 1:10 000 vs risk of dying of vaccination 1:1 000 000 or what ever, so long as the former risk is higher there's a reason for vaccinations.

Not true, the risk of getting corona is far lower than the risk getting vaccinated. so maybe the death toll on vaccinations outweights the one of corona some day... Just statistics.

There are already more vaccinated people then people with corona since the break out.

[sv_pelagia]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

Not true, the risk of getting corona is far lower than the risk getting vaccinated. so maybe the death toll on vaccinations outweights the one of corona some day... Just statistics.

Just wrong...
There are NO data to support your misinformation

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by sv_pelagia

Just wrong...
There are NO data to support your misinformation

No misinformation. Just mathematics.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

Not true, the risk of getting corona is far lower than the risk getting vaccinated. so maybe the death toll on vaccinations outweights the one of corona some day... Just statistics.

There are already more vaccinated people then people with corona since the break out.

Does anyone else ever get tired of feeling being trolled on the forum? Just asking.