Northern Europe during Pandemic -- Summers 2020 & 2021 & onwards

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Montanan

"In terms of the reliability of the tests, I think recent Test and Trace analysis around this suggests that out of 1,000 lateral flow tests, there was less than one false positive within those 1,000.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...er-addressing/

Originally Posted by Montanan

The UK government said vaccine passports were all but unavoidable, since many countries were certain to demand proof of COVID-19 status for entry.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...cid=uxbndlbing

If the Covid tests are so reliable, then I don't understand any requirement for vaccine passports.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Exile

If the Covid tests are so reliable, then I don't understand any requirement for vaccine passports.

He's just warming up.. don't point out the contradictions yet..

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Montanan

As many as one in three people infected with Covid-19 have longer term mental health or neurological symptoms, researchers reported Tuesday.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/06/healt...ess/index.html

They found 34% of Covid-19 survivors received a diagnosis for a neurological or psychological condition within six months of their infection, according to the study published Tuesday in the journal Lancet Psychiatry.
The most common diagnosis was anxiety, found in 17% of those treated for Covid-19, followed by mood disorders, found in 14% of patients.
And while the neurological effects are more severe in hospitalized patients, they are still common in those who were only treated in an outpatient setting.

Now here's quite a piece of "responsible" journalism, along with a rather "selective" choice of quotes (that are not in fact in quotations) to include in your post. But perhaps most misleading of all was the title of the article itself (which you left out), namely

"A third of Covid-19 survivors suffer 'brain disease,' study shows."

Really? Does "brain disease" include both psychological and physiological/neurological disorders? Apparently so. Which category does anxiety disorder fall in? The article doesn't say, even though anxiety comprises half of the 34% total. Is anxiety disorder considered a "brain disease," at least in the minds of most laymen relying on CNN to provide them with accurate medical info on CV-19? How about mood disorders? How about the 1/50 the article mentions who suffer strokes? Should all of these be lumped together as "brain disease?" Or is it pretty obvious why there might be a higher incidence of, for example, anxiety disorder for people who contract Covid as opposed to those who catch the seasonal flu or are diagnosed with more common respiratory infections? In fact, the article (but notably not the study) goes even further and characterizes CV-19 itself as a "brain disease." It's not until the very last paragraph that some sorely needed perspective is provided, with one of the researchers acknowledging that:

"Although the individual risks for most disorders are small, the effect across the whole population may be substantial for health and social care systems due to the scale of the pandemic and that many of these conditions are chronic," Harrison said. "As a result, health care systems need to be resourced to deal with the anticipated need, both within primary and secondary care services." (Emphasis mine).

Fair enough, and certainly more than reasonable. But somehow, and in the very same article, we went from Covid giving 1/3 of all patients "brain disease," to the individual risk of most of these disorders as being "small." Good thing I didn't just rely on the article's title and the first few paragraphs you quoted or I may have been alarmed that catching Covid meant not only having to fight the infection and trying to control the inevitable anxiety over whether I may survive, but also that I had a 1 in 3 chance of also contracting some sort of "brain disease."

To be clear, I'm not criticizing the actual study which presumably is much more useful to the medical community than the article describes. The article itself, on the other hand, seems to be a classic example of distorting legitimate and important science for the sake of an unrelated agenda. Isn't there enough legitimate alarm surrounding this ongoing pandemic without needing to exaggerate it?

[El Pinguino]

I found this interesting..
https://www.theage.com.au/national/n...06-p57gt7.html

'A dozen people were infected with COVID-19 at a western Sydney church last year through airborne transmission, with evidence suggesting an asymptomatic chorister spread virus particles up to 14 metres to members of the congregation.'

Got to run.... packing my kit ready for my holiday in Unzud...

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Exile

If the Covid tests are so reliable, then I don't understand any requirement for vaccine passports.

We have had vaccine passports for years, just one more vaccine needing to be entered into it.

How the record of vaccination is used, now that is a different matter.

Entering into Australia pre covid.... one of the few questions on the paperwork you would get picked up on was 'have you been in South America in the last 14 days'. When asked by the person reading your form 'where abouts in SA' then 'Chile' was the only answer that got you a free pass.

Otherwise they would be on your case re Yellow Fever.

The 'little yellow book' is still 'a thing'.

[Seaworthy Lass]

This pandemic has been marked by extremes. My initial impression was that the media was driving this. Balanced views do not “sell papers”. But it is not simply the media. What is it in our natures that seems to thrive off extremes rather than balance?

Is it simply the need for certainty? Is it fear? Have we become accustomed and complacent about handing over responsibility of our safety to others? Do we draw comfort from having restrictions imposed on others in the community to feel safer ourselves? Or is it the sense that if we are suffering others should be as well?

There even seems to be some morbid fascination in hearing worst case scenarios. I hesitate calling the latter pleasure, but some people seem to be absolutely gleeful when reporting the worst possible interpretation of data. And almost all data can be skewed to suit any purpose.

This is carrying through to vaccination. Vaccines are either promoted as 100% safe or evil. Anyone hesitating to be vaccinated is labelled an “anti-vaxxer” and immediately thrown in with the group promoting whacky theories involving the 5G network and injection of chips. They are shamed for lack of “social responsibility”, for being selfish and stupid, along with having a host of other horrid traits, despite COVID-19 vaccines providing the vulnerable with almost 100% protection from severe illness irrespective of what anyone around them does.

There is nothing black and white about this pandemic.

I very much hope that once the most vulnerable have been vaccinated and death rates plummet and then some semblance of normal life resumes, that the drive to mass vaccinate subsides. Most of these COVID-19 vaccines employ modes of action never before used on humans.

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

We have had vaccine passports for years, just one more vaccine needing to be entered into it.

.......The 'little yellow book' is still 'a thing'.

This is not equivalent to “just another jab”. There is zero long term data for these new vaccines. I usually prefer to give situations I encounter a positive spin, but burying our heads in the sand and ignoring all the possible risks is very dangerous, particularly when it comes to mass vaccination of the next generation with vaccines not trialled long term, particularly when the healthy young are at next to no risk themselves from severe disease.

I need to add that I am not against vaccination. My little yellow book is so full that notations with batch numbers and signatures are now flowing onto blank pages.

[GordMay]

FWIW:
Eight members of the 'Lancet COVID-19 Commission Taskforce on Public Health' call for leaders to pursue public-health measures that will deliver “maximum suppression” of SARS-CoV-2.
“... Put simply, the game has changed, and a successful global rollout of current vaccines by itself is no longer a guarantee of victory ...”
More ➥ https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3382498

[UFO]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

The 'little yellow book' is still 'a thing'.

Well the little yellow book is vastly different to the digital passports (ID's) which are being touted - This is opening the gateway to the possibility of massive tracking and control - how long before they start adding other social aspects to the passport, like they are already doing in China?



All of a sudden you'll find that you are being restricted for your low societal score because you drink too much, drive too fast, let your dog off the lead and so on - this is ALREADY a Reality in parts of China - Do you really want to eagerly open the door to this because the media have driven the fear of this virus into the populace?



Lets also look at the reality of the virus - Only approx 0.04% of the world's population have died from it in well over a year, so not even a yearly figure - Something you should consider when throwing away your freedoms so recklessly!


FYI this will all be tied into facial recognition as for large events, scanning everyone's ID is too slow - Think about that as well!!!! - George Orwell will be turning in his grave.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by UFO

Well the little yellow book is vastly different to the digital passports (ID's) which are being touted - This is opening the gateway to the possibility of massive tracking and control ...

A classic "slippery slope" [fallacious] argument, with overtones of [paranoid] "conspiratorial ideation".

[UFO]

Originally Posted by GordMay

FWIW:
Eight members of the 'Lancet COVID-19 Commission Taskforce on Public Health' call for leaders to pursue public-health measures that will deliver “maximum suppression” of SARS-CoV-2.
“... Put simply, the game has changed, and a successful global rollout of current vaccines by itself is no longer a guarantee of victory ...”
More ➥ https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3382498

Well I say $%^& Them. Time to stop this draconian BS and move on!

[UFO]

Originally Posted by GordMay

A classic "slippery slope" [fallacious] argument, with overtones of [paranoid] "conspiratorial ideation".

Oh Come on Gord - This crap is already a reality in parts of the world are you really so blind that you can not see the power grab going on?



Its people like you spouting such rubbish as you just did that will lead our children into a dystopian future - Round of applause for you.

[boatman61]

Could these be the symptoms of the 'Brain Disorders' that Covid brings according to Montanan's research...

[stevensuf]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Remember when certain noisy people on CF were insisting that there is no immunity from COVID and that people would get infected over and over again?

Reinfection appears to be happening quite well in Brazil..... Watch what happens in the USA in the near future! God only knows how many people I have heard through Survivor corps that have been reinfected, so yes it is happening, whether they are reporting it or not and no it is not rare!


I certainly did not say no immunity, I said short lived immunity.

[stevensuf]

https://bnonews.com/index.php/reinfe...spected-cases/

[Exile]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

We have had vaccine passports for years, just one more vaccine needing to be entered into it.

How the record of vaccination is used, now that is a different matter.

Entering into Australia pre covid.... one of the few questions on the paperwork you would get picked up on was 'have you been in South America in the last 14 days'. When asked by the person reading your form 'where abouts in SA' then 'Chile' was the only answer that got you a free pass.

Otherwise they would be on your case re Yellow Fever.

The 'little yellow book' is still 'a thing'.

Is there a reliable test for yellow fever like there (apparently) is for Covid? I think an important component of any debate over mandatory vax passports for Covid should be if there are less intrusive means (privacy-wise) for a govt's otherwise valid desire to safeguard public health. There are obviously legitimate concerns on both sides of such measures, as there are with most complex public policy issues.