Northern Europe during Pandemic -- Summers 2020 & 2021 & onwards

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Australia bet on the wrong horses. 50 million doses of the University of Queensland covid vaccine (the trial was discontinued following false HIV positive test results in participants) ............

There are mumblings in the back rooms of restarting the UQ trials given the HIV false positive concern is of a fairly minor consequence in the grand scheme of things. A second (different) HIV test quickly confirms if the said positive result is true or false.

At the time of halting the UQ programme, the AZ clotting issue was unknown (at least publicly); if it had been, I think UQ would have pushed on.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

............
I would have thought however that there should be no problem by now obtaining whatever vaccine. There is huge oversupply of Pfizer in the U.S., which has started to give away millions of doses. I would think a paying customer could have pretty much immediate delivery by now.
...........

You have highlighted the major issue down under.

The rumour was (initially) - why pay a premium for a fancy expensive vaccine (Pfizer etc) when we can make our own (AZ & UQ) for chips.

Now the rumour goes something like - Why pay for something better (Pfizer etc) when we have bucketloads of AZ sitting in warehouses going unused.

To reverse the cliche - When you have monkeys running the show, you get paid peanuts.

Truly a case of penny wise, pound foolish where we count the cost but not the value.

BTW are Covid vaccinations (and tests) free to the public in Europe? Down under they are.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Wotname

You have highlighted the major issue down under.

The rumour was (initially) - why pay a premium for a fancy expensive vaccine (Pfizer etc) when we can make our own (AZ & UQ) for chips.

Now the rumour goes something like - Why pay for something better (Pfizer etc) when we have bucketloads of AZ sitting in warehouses going unused.

To reverse the cliche - When you have monkeys running the show, you get paid peanuts.

Truly a case of penny wise, pound foolish where we count the cost but not the value.

BTW are Covid vaccinations (and tests) free to the public in Europe? Down under they are.

The cost of vaccines -- at the full commerical rate -- to immunize the entire Ozi population will cost less than one day of GDP lost to lockdown. It's bupkins. I really don't believe this is a factor.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

The cost of vaccines -- at the full commerical rate -- to immunize the entire Ozi population will cost less than one day of GDP lost to lockdown. It's bupkins. I really don't believe this is a factor.

I so admire your faith in our elected Aussie leaders however I can't share it.

[laird]

One of the issues that is causing problems here in the UK is the NHS app , it pings you if you have been in contact with a covid positive individual . last week one of our guys tested positive , best educated guess is that he picked it up from the crowd at the England V Italy footie match as mentioned earlier by boatman , this had caused 4 of our team into self isolation , the app pinged the other three and this has led to Labour shortage , I'm due to go three weeks on the trot as the on call engineer ,it's a PITA

The App whilst intended to help fight the virus has caused Labour shortages in a lot of industries ,so much so that they are warning of shortages in petrol etc

The whole situation is very variable and constantly changing , I get regular updates on Covid areas within my job at the NHS , going by that information , the NHS has it all under control at the moment

I've said it before and I will say it again , that covid is going to be treated in the same manner as the flu ,there will be a number of deaths each year and people will be given an annual shot , flu on average killed between 5000 and 15000 each year in the UK ,

The big question in my mind is that how long will it take for the world to receive two shots of the vaccine ,providing that the current tactics of Europe\ America prove in the long term to be the way forward , we have only got as far as the letter D in naming the variants ,will the next variants prove more deadly ?

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

The cost of vaccines -- at the full commerical rate -- to immunize the entire Ozi population will cost less than one day of GDP lost to lockdown.

A quick look at some internet Ozi numbers.
2019 GDP - 1.392 Trillion USD
2020 GDP - 1.359 Trillion USD

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-of-australia/

Difference is 33 Billion and assuming 100% due to Covid then cost per person is 1,320 USD. If two jabs, that is 660 USD per jab.

Note - projected figures for 2021 is 1.618 Trillion USD which is well above 2019 and 2020 numbers.

EDIT: Looking at the UK numbers from the same source, the per capita loss of GDP in the UK for 2020 is around double that of Oz.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by laird

One of the issues that is causing problems here in the UK is the NHS app , it pings you if you have been in contact with a covid positive individual . last week one of our guys tested positive , best educated guess is that he picked it up from the crowd at the England V Italy footie match as mentioned earlier by boatman , this had caused 4 of our team into self isolation , the app pinged the other three and this has led to Labour shortage , I'm due to go three weeks on the trot as the on call engineer ,it's a PITA



The App whilst intended to help fight the virus has caused Labour shortages in a lot of industries ,so much so that they are warning of shortages in petrol etc



The whole situation is very variable and constantly changing , I get regular updates on Covid areas within my job at the NHS , going by that information , the NHS has it all under control at the moment



I've said it before and I will say it again , that covid is going to be treated in the same manner as the flu ,there will be a number of deaths each year and people will be given an annual shot , flu on average killed between 5000 and 15000 each year in the UK ,



The big question in my mind is that how long will it take for the world to receive two shots of the vaccine ,providing that the current tactics of Europe\ America prove in the long term to be the way forward , we have only got as far as the letter D in naming the variants ,will the next variants prove more deadly ?

By and large virus mutations get more transmissible and less deadly largely because the deadlier variants kill off their host and the variants that transmits faster tend to survive

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by laird

One of the issues that is causing problems here in the UK is the NHS app , it pings you if you have been in contact with a covid positive individual . last week one of our guys tested positive , best educated guess is that he picked it up from the crowd at the England V Italy footie match as mentioned earlier by boatman , this had caused 4 of our team into self isolation , the app pinged the other three and this has led to Labour shortage , I'm due to go three weeks on the trot as the on call engineer ,it's a PITA

The App whilst intended to help fight the virus has caused Labour shortages in a lot of industries ,so much so that they are warning of shortages in petrol etc

The whole situation is very variable and constantly changing , I get regular updates on Covid areas within my job at the NHS , going by that information , the NHS has it all under control at the moment

I've said it before and I will say it again , that covid is going to be treated in the same manner as the flu ,there will be a number of deaths each year and people will be given an annual shot , flu on average killed between 5000 and 15000 each year in the UK ,

The big question in my mind is that how long will it take for the world to receive two shots of the vaccine ,providing that the current tactics of Europe\ America prove in the long term to be the way forward , we have only got as far as the letter D in naming the variants ,will the next variants prove more deadly ?

I thought we were up to L now with the Lambda variant.

Lambda variant, also known as lineage C.37, is a variant of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. It was first detected in Peru in December 2020. On 14 June 2021, the World Health Organization (WHO) named it Lambda variant and designated it as a variant of interest

[El Pinguino]

Speaking here as someone who has very recent experience in both of the major hermit kingdoms. Both went into full 'keep it out' mode at the start as did many smaller island states both in the SW pacific and elsewhere ... Falkland Islands being a good example.
When it works it works well.

Arrived home from New Zealand about 36 hours ago. They have used - to the best of my knowledge - Phizer exclusively. Sadly only about 10% of the total population double vaxed as of now... poorer rate than Australia.
They are going to be locked down a bit longer as a result of this.
Current restrictions are simply masks on public transport - nada mas.
The economy is doing very nicely. Instead of going OS on hols Kiwis are spending their money at home. Bit of a bleat from South Island resorts that rely on the Qland skiing trade. I was there for two weeks in mid winter and the weather was very Arabic - totally shi-ite for most of the time. Stayed over in not only Auckland but also Taupo, Palmerston North, Wellington ( quit Wellington 24 hours ahead of the 100 year storms and flooding) and Napier. Lots of No Vacancy signs on accomodation. All towns jumping and wide open.
Their only problem is slow vaccine rollout which will delay their reopening but few people there seem fussed about that.

Australia? Sadly led - I use that word in its loosest sense - by a failed marketing man.
Yes he did put all the eggs in the one basket - essentially the AZ one - and yes it is believed it was cost related. Nothing out there to say it wasn't. He also duck shoved the responsibility for hotel quarantine onto the states. He is quite proud of it and will tell you it has been 99.9% effective which is a bit like having a bucket with only one small leak - its still a leaky bucket.
Here in Victoria we had a bad outbreak from HQ last year - we learnt a lot from that and now Victoria locks down hard and fast and it works. Our last two outbreaks have come from HQ in other states, the one before last came to us from SA, this one entered the country in Sydney via a limo driver who was driving infected aircrew from airport to hotel while all unmasked ... thanks Gladys.
Unlike Victoria Gladys has gone soft lockdown which just isn't going to work. Daily cases are pretty much doubling week on week. This is not going to end well for NSW. https://covidlive.com.au/report/dail...-test-rate/nsw

All aggrevated by hopeless Federal leadership.
The plan was good, the execution not so good.

More here
https://www.theage.com.au/national/a...fv.html#update

And two handy graphs comparing NSW and Vic in this piece.
https://www.theage.com.au/national/f....html#comments

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Why will it “ stop soon”. There are now situations where vaccinated people are getting infected by delta

15000 fully vaccinated covid infected in UK according statistics last week.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

15000 fully vaccinated covid infected in UK according statistics last week.

Nobody thinks the vaccine stops you from catching covid - well almost nobody.
It stops you from getting very sick or dying.

You can still pass it on to the unvaccinated. In years to come this shall be known as 'the Great Cull'.

What I would like to see and - what we can see in NSW - is how many cases each day, how many of them in hospital, and a breakdown of them in hospital and ICU into vaxxed / unvaxxed.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Wotname

A quick look at some internet Ozi numbers.
2019 GDP - 1.392 Trillion USD
2020 GDP - 1.359 Trillion USD

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-of-australia/

Difference is 33 Billion and assuming 100% due to Covid then cost per person is 1,320 USD. If two jabs, that is 660 USD per jab.

Note - projected figures for 2021 is 1.618 Trillion USD which is well above 2019 and 2020 numbers.

EDIT: Looking at the UK numbers from the same source, the per capita loss of GDP in the UK for 2020 is around double that of Oz.

Oh shoot... I cocked up the numbers!

The annual difference is 33B so the daily difference is 90M meaning the per capita difference is 3.62 USD so the per jab cost would have been $1.80 US which confirms DH claim they should have just ponied up the cash - yet they didn't.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Oh shoot... I cocked up the numbers!

The annual difference is 33B so the daily difference is 90M meaning the per capita difference is 3.62 USD so the per jab cost would have been $1.80 US which confirms DH claim they should have just ponied up the cash - yet they didn't.

You have a better grasp of numbers than our 'leader'. I don't think he does 'numbers'.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

You have a better grasp of numbers than our 'leader'. I don't think he does 'numbers'.

Why thank you!

But you are a little harsh methinks; he has a great grasp of the number of triennial pork barrels required.

Oz should be the envy of the world but our vaccine rollout makes us the laughing stock.

OK, back to up over Covid considerations.

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by Wotname

snip..

BTW are Covid vaccinations (and tests) free to the public in Europe? Down under they are.

Mostly are, by the border coming into country and other "legit" reasons it's free but like going for vacation you got to pay about 100 to 200€ for a test. Thou you can say feeling a bit sick and go for a free test anyways..