Northern Europe during Pandemic -- Summers 2020 & 2021 & onwards

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by boatman61

The UK is a 'Third Country' so GBN (an EU warrior) does not trust anything that comes outa there..

Absolutely correct , the land of spin and Cummings

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

No data?

There is plenty of data from the UK where the Delta variant is responsible for close to 100% of cases.

The attached image shows states and clearly shows that “In older age groups, COVID-19 positivity rates were lowest, but hospital admission rates and deaths were highest.”
Data covers a week in mid July 2021.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...issions-by-age

I don’t know how many of those aged under 24 who were hospitalised were unhealthy, but I would guess it is not a negligible number.

The vaccinated percentage of the under 24s is very low, so it is not vaccination that is responsible for these figures. The UK has not approved the use of Pfizer for those under 16 yet (unless they are at high risk, I think).




Zero long term data using very new technology that is light years from how other vaccines and drugs work is reason enough in my book not to vaccinate those at very low risk of severe illness. The Delta variant may be affecting younger age groups more than the Alpha variant did, but it is still an extremely low percentage.

We are discussing mass vaccination worldwide here. Why would you expose youngsters at low risk of severe illness to even the smallest chance of long terms problems with a vaccine that has no long track record at all, and when nothing has ever been used that could serve to give even a vague indication of long term risks.

SWL

The hospital admissions for older people will exist by the nature of their age but they are not getting infected by COVID as a percentage

What’s changed with delta is the hospital she has reduced and more importantly the severity of the disease on the under 40s is on the increase.

All this points to more vaccinations

Anyway , this debate is sterile. The evidence is more and more people are getting vaccinated and the vaccine pass will be needed to access many activities. This is “ encourage “ the remaining confused thinkers

Everyone bar a handful will be vaccinated by end of the year including most kids ( phizer reports trials are very successful )

[El Pinguino]

Muppet holds up bit of paper - says 'peace in our time!'

I rather hope it goes the way he says in a timely fashion but I have been disappointed in him before - maybe I am just a slow learner

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/f...30-p58ekc.html

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Muppet holds up bit of paper - says 'peace in our time!'

I rather hope it goes the way he says in a timely fashion but I have been disappointed in him before - maybe I am just a slow learner

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/f...30-p58ekc.html

Interesting advice now is that close to 90% vaccination is needed due to the transmissibility of the Delta variant and its tendency to make younger people sicker then the original virus

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Interesting advice now is that close to 90% vaccination is needed due to the transmissibility of the Delta variant and its tendency to make younger people sicker then the original virus

Vegans would be exempt from compulsory workplace Covid vaccinations and employers risk legal action if they insist workers are double-jabbed, experts say.

Ethical veganism was ruled to be a protected characteristic at a tribunal last year.

It means any employers would risk legal action if they order staff to be vaccinated.

A spokesman for Lewis Silkin, a law firm, told the Telegraph: “Some ethical vegans may disagree with vaccinations on the basis that they will inevitably have been tested on animals.

“Ethical veganism has previously been found to amount to a belief, capable of being protected.”

The protections mean that vegans and people in other categories, including some religious groups as well as those with certain disabilities or medical conditions, could mount a claim of constructive dismissal if forced to get the jab.

It comes as the Government faces challenges over making the jab mandatory and the introduction of “vaccine passports”, which it has been claimed could help prevent further lockdowns.

[goboatingnow]

Greece recently passed a law saying certain categories of workers may have their employment terminated if they refuse vaccination unless medically not suitable.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by boatman61

........

A spokesman for Lewis Silkin, a law firm, told the Telegraph: “Some ethical vegans may disagree with vaccinations on the basis that they will inevitably have been tested on animals humans.
.............

There, FIFY...

[El Pinguino]

Meanwhile a government announcement from Straya

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_0zFEtPbiA

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Meanwhile a government announcement from Straya

[emoji23]

[fxykty]

Not good news https://nationalpost.com/news/world/...d-cdc-document

Delta variant is a game changer it seems. Bummer.

Bottom line from the article - neither vaccines nor previous infections provide protection from the Delta variant. Masking and other protective behaviours must continue and become embedded I guess. Sigh.

For NZ, I can’t see the current government ever changing its messaging from elimination to endemic, from minimising deaths to simply accepting hundreds a year as the cost of doing business. Fortress NZ will continue indefinitely I bet. I notice they pulled the first vaccination ad that called vaccination the ‘metaphorical door to freedom’.

Regarding sailing from NZ to Australia, we got our entry to Australia approved, but only due to my Australian dual citizenship. We certainly don’t qualify for the safe haven exemption coming from NZ. Still waiting to hear if we will get a waiver to quarantine from Queensland Health.

[goboatingnow]

The report mentioned isn’t official CDC but it’s conclusions are fairly obvious that we need very high levels of vaccination to beat delta

“Next steps for CDC
[emoji830] Communications
– Acknowledge the war has changed
– Improve public’s understanding of breakthrough infections
– Improve communications around individual risk among vaccinated
• Risk of severe disease or death reduced 10-fold or greater in vaccinated • Risk of infection reduced 3-fold in vaccinated
[emoji830] Prevention
– Consider vaccine mandates for HCP to protect vulnerable populations
– Universal masking for source control and prevention
– Reconsider other community mitigation strategies
23
“

Your conclusion that the vaccines arnt effective against delta is incorrect

Breakthrough infection data in regards to Delta is only largely coming from the U.K. and Israel. The latest trends shows that after a burst cases are stabilising and beginning to drop

Israel early breakthrough data was from a small sample set , more recent data suggests it’s more similar to U.K. data

U.K. data suggests the vaccine is absolutely vital to control delta.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

... Your conclusion that the vaccines arnt effective against delta is incorrect
Breakthrough infection data in regards to Delta is only largely coming from the U.K. and Israel, and Canada.

Indeed.
I’ve previously posted this preprint study, from Canada [IDK which thread]:

“Effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines against variants of concern, Canada”~ by Jeff Kwong et al

"... Against Delta, vaccine effectiveness after partial vaccination tended to be lower than against Alpha for BNT162b2 and mRNA-1273, but was similar to Alpha for ChAdOx1. Full vaccination with BNT162b2 increased protection against Delta to levels comparable to Alpha and Beta/Gamma. Vaccine
effectiveness against hospitalization or death caused by all studied VOCs was generally higher than for symptomatic infection after partial vaccination with all three vaccines ...

... Our findings suggest that even a single dose of these 3 vaccine products provide good to excellent protection against symptomatic infection and severe outcomes caused by the 4 currently circulating variants of concern, and that 2 doses are likely to provide even higher protection ..."

Here ➥ https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...420v1.full.pdf

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Not good news https://nationalpost.com/news/world/...d-cdc-document

Delta variant is a game changer it seems. Bummer.

Bottom line from the article - neither vaccines nor previous infections provide protection from the Delta variant. Masking and other protective behaviours must continue and become embedded I guess. Sigh.

For NZ, I can’t see the current government ever changing its messaging from elimination to endemic, from minimising deaths to simply accepting hundreds a year as the cost of doing business. Fortress NZ will continue indefinitely I bet. I notice they pulled the first vaccination ad that called vaccination the ‘metaphorical door to freedom’.

Regarding sailing from NZ to Australia, we got our entry to Australia approved, but only due to my Australian dual citizenship. We certainly don’t qualify for the safe haven exemption coming from NZ. Still waiting to hear if we will get a waiver to quarantine from Queensland Health.

If Australia opens its borders then NZ must follow. Too many New Zealanders either work, wish to work, or have family in Australia - especially the latter.

I may have mentioned that I flew to NZ on the 8th - midway through a bubble that lasted from about the 3rd? to the 16th? . Normally only 737s (QF)and A320s (NZ) operate the route. NZ has been running 787s over the Tasman and I flew on a very full QF A330. Coming back the bubble was popped and they were back to 737s with A330s every second day. However I wasn't Robinson Crusoe on that flight.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by fxykty

. . .Delta variant is a game changer it seems. Bummer.

Sadly true. Full herd immunity is likely out of reach for years. We will have to learn to live with this virus.

Originally Posted by fxykty

. . . Bottom line from the article - neither vaccines nor previous infections provide protection from the Delta variant. .

As others have pointed out, this is false. A full course of one of the more effective vaccines provides very good protection against the Delta variant, 80% to 90% protection against symptomatic infection which is excellent. 90% protection, however, means symptomatic infections can take place in 10% of cases, and asymptomatic infections in even more. According to the CDC as of a couple of days ago, people with asymptomatic Delta variant infections can still be highly contagious, unlike the case with other variants.

As a result, what the vaccines won't do is stop the circulation of the virus with only 60% or 70% immunity in the population. That is a game changer. Bummer.

[boatman61]

Good to know realities are finally sinking in with the Hail Mary Brigade..