Northern Europe during Pandemic -- Summers 2020 & 2021 & onwards

[boatman61]

Standby for the Flak CC... outraged shareholders and believers will be descending on you shortly..

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by CruisingCouple

All the latest rage is vaccine. But what about those of us who have already had corona and got over it? Antibodies don't mean you are immune to coronaviruses. The t-detect test from Adaptive Biotech provides the proof you are immune to coronaviruses, requires a whole blood sample and tests for adaptive immunity, which vaccines don't provide. Wife is an RN with a degree in microbiology with her nursing masters, she ordered the test for both of us. It is available thru your healthcare provider. It's not cheap and insurance doesn't cover it but it provides 97% certainty of adaptive immunity to SARS, SARS-CoV-2 and genetic variants.

Our test results were positive immunity, probably why SARS-CoV-2 never affected either of us when we tested positive for it. Coronavirus samples can't be cultured like bacterial samples - a special test called cytopathic effect must be used to culture viruses. My wife also ordered that test on our positive PCR samples. Neither of us were infectious and we were shedding "dead" virus (coronaviruses are also not living organisms, but that's a different subject). We had been exposed, identified thru contact tracing, but it did not affect us because we have innate immunity.

Of course, this is using real science since my wife has the resources to do it, and it's expensive. But not everybody needs (or wants) vaccine. The vaccine push is more of a shotgun approach, driven by money and politics. And it will ultimately fail against a coronavirus that readily mutates on-the-fly. They have changed the story on this three times since last November, despite literally thousands of CoV-2 variants being logged in the GISAID database when the vaccines hit the street, some of those sequenced in my wife's lab.

The vaccine push is a big experiment with willing participants programmed with fear, and the main drive behind it is financial (and political with governments that now have billions invested in it). But if you think even for an instant that vaccine is going to stop it, that is nothing but a pipe dream. It doesn't work that way with coronaviruses and there is no more of a way to stop it than there is a cure for the common cold (also from the family of coronaviruses, called rhinoviruses).

Wife says the bigger question is, when are they going to give up on "tracking" it with a RT-PCR test that was never designed for what it is being used for, and only concentrate on actual clinical cases that need medical attention? They are running around, wasting their time, tracking thousands (or perhaps millions) of non-clinical "cases". Which serves no purpose in the big picture because for every one they "track" with a flawed test that does not even tell if the sample is infectious, at least 5 slip thru the cracks.

I tend to agree many of your points but not with your conclusions. I do agree most measures, including vaccine, are shotgun measures, but tell me what it would cost to test all the people like you've been tested? Just for the sake of to avoid a few vaccines..

[TeddyDiver]

And, despite the Covid variant being among us forever, with vaccines there's no more excess body count. What about have mask mandates if you have even a common cold? Just think about what it costs for societies all the days people being sick. Not that it's something serious but it saves money..

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

And, despite the Covid variant being among us forever, with vaccines there's no more excess body count. What about have mask mandates if you have even a common cold? Just think about what it costs for societies all the days people being sick. Not that it's something serious but it saves money..

Interesting question.


People are sick and tired of even mild measures like masking and are desperate to get back to normal life.


HOWEVER, how many people haven't had even a sniffle since the pandemic started, and how cool is that? I think once people get over this phase and start to forget about the harsh measures, we might really see masking and hand hygiene and a bit of social distancing continue -- on a voluntary basis.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by CruisingCouple

... The t-detect test from Adaptive Biotech provides the proof you are immune to coronaviruses, requires a whole blood sample and tests for adaptive immunity, which vaccines don't provide...
... It's not cheap and insurance doesn't cover it but it provides 97% certainty of adaptive immunity to SARS, SARS-CoV-2 and genetic variants...

NOT according to these scientists, the FDA, nor Adaptive Biotech themselves.
The test detects previous infection.

A new analysis [1] of T cells, from people who recovered from COVID-19, has confirmed that they remain active against three of the new SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern: B1.1.7, B.351 and B.1.1.248.

In a clinical validation study [2], the T-Detect COVID assay attained 97.1% sensitivity (defined as positive percent agreement) and 100% specificity (defined as negative percent agreement) as compared with PCR testing from 15 days or more after diagnosis.

[1] “ CD8+ T-Cell Responses in COVID-19 Convalescent Individuals Target Conserved Epitopes From Multiple Prominent SARS-CoV-2 Circulating Variants” ~ by Andrew D Redd et al
➥ https://academic.oup.com/ofid/articl...fab143/6189113

[2] “Clinical Validation of a Novel T-cell Receptor Sequencing Assay for Identification of Recent or Prior SARS-CoV-2 Infection” ~ by Sudeb C. Dalai et al
“... T-Detect COVID is a novel T-cell immunosequencing assay demonstrating high clinical performance to identify recent or prior SARS-CoV-2 infection from standard blood samples ...”
➥ https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...45v1.full-text

“... At Adaptive Biotechnologies, we just launched T-Detect COVID, the first-ever T-cell test for individuals that can detect whether a person has had a recent or past COVID-19 infection ...”
➥ https://www.adaptivebiotech.com/2021...hine-learning/

“... A T cell response may be detected in blood several days after initial infection; however, it is unknown how long the T cell immune response remains following infection and what level of protection may be provided by the presence of a T cell immune response. The T-Detect COVID test will be a useful tool to help determine if a person previously had COVID-19. This is especially important for people who may have exhibited symptoms previously or believe they have been exposed but have not tested positive for COVID-19 using a molecular or antigen diagnostic test ...”
➥ https://www.fda.gov/news-events/pres...ect-covid-test

[UFO]

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

I tend to agree many of your points but not with your conclusions. I do agree most measures, including vaccine, are shotgun measures, but tell me what it would cost to test all the people like you've been tested? Just for the sake of to avoid a few vaccines..

What does it cost to contact millions of incorrectly diagnosed (False positive) people and self isolate them, their friends and family along with shutting down businesses and cities?

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

...
HOWEVER, how many people haven't had even a sniffle since the pandemic started, and how cool is that? I think once people get over this phase and start to forget about the harsh measures, we might really see masking and hand hygiene and a bit of social distancing continue -- on a voluntary basis.

Then again we may see a rise in disease that had been supressed by Covid measures.

This was early June
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/...ies-specialist

This was early July
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-immunity-debt

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by GordMay

NOT according to these scientists, the FDA, nor Adaptive Biotech themselves.
The [T-Detect COVID] test detects previous infection, in the past...

Corrected, in red.

[GreenHeaven]

What’s Behind the COVID Jab Narrative?

Cummins’ primary concern with the COVID-19 injections is that the benefit is basically nonexistent for healthy people under the age of 60. He cites data from Israel, where the vast majority of the population has been injected with the Pfizer mRNA concoction, that unvaccinated and “vaccinated” have the same infection rate, regardless of age. Empirical data from other countries also reveal the injections have no effect on transmission.

“The pharma companies did acknowledge it may not affect transmission,” he says. “Mechanistically, it shouldn't really affect transmission. And the real-world data say it doesn't. So, the push to vaccinate is not based on any science, really, at all. It's just based on a desire. And you've got to question that desire.

What is the obsession with trying to get everyone vaccinated? I feel that part of it has to do with profiteering and pharma influence, obviously. Part of it has to do with justifying a vaccine passport or permits.

And part of it, I think, is that there's a fear that having a substantial control group, say 20%, 30% of people who are not vaccinated, will clearly show that the unvaccinated, unless they've got particular medical conditions, really are no worse off and are not causing transmission. So, I think there is a desire now to eliminate the control group.

A control group shows that your medication or your lockdown isn’t so hot. So, I think that's another driver. A bit of desperation is coming in to get rid of the control group and just get everyone vaccinated, and then you can't see the signal anymore.”

Official Control Groups Have Been Eliminated

This is in fact precisely what Moderna and Pfizer have done: Both have eliminated the original control groups in their initial COVID injection trials by giving controls the real mRNA shot. This was done even though the trials are officially ongoing for another two years. So, they have already eliminated the control groups in the trials against which to assess the effectiveness and safety of these injections. Cummins comments:

“The whole thing is kind of a sham, and you don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to say it's a sham. Basically, elementary science has been inverted, turned upside down, macerated, flushed down the urinal. And that's without even getting into complicated stuff. It's crazy.

I mean, most people don't even realize it's under emergency use authorization (EUA). A guy in Ireland went to seven pharmacies and asked them the question, ‘What's the risk to my 20-year-old daughter from COVID? And what's the risk of side effects from the medication?’ And they couldn't really answer.

Pretty much all of them said emphatically, ‘This is fully tested.’ He showed them the documentation, that it's emergency use only. It's not fully [approved]. And they were kind of surprised. So even all the people administering [the COVID injections] are just not aware of any of the facts, it appears.

The pharmacists in question thought side effects were 1 in hundreds of thousands. But the Johnson & Johnson leaflet that this guy brought in showed up to 1 in 10,000 chance of a serious clot in brain, lymph or spleen, et cetera.

So, they weren't even really aware of the contents of the leaflet … So, there's no informed consent because the person administering [the injection] doesn't understand the [risks], and certainly the person getting it doesn't.”

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by GreenHeaven

What’s Behind the COVID Jab Narrative?



Cummins’ primary concern with the COVID-19 injections is that the benefit is basically nonexistent for healthy people under the age of 60. He cites data from Israel, where the vast majority of the population has been injected with the Pfizer mRNA concoction, that unvaccinated and “vaccinated” have the same infection rate, regardless of age. Empirical data from other countries also reveal the injections have no effect on transmission.



“The pharma companies did acknowledge it may not affect transmission,” he says. “Mechanistically, it shouldn't really affect transmission. And the real-world data say it doesn't. So, the push to vaccinate is not based on any science, really, at all. It's just based on a desire. And you've got to question that desire.



What is the obsession with trying to get everyone vaccinated? I feel that part of it has to do with profiteering and pharma influence, obviously. Part of it has to do with justifying a vaccine passport or permits.



And part of it, I think, is that there's a fear that having a substantial control group, say 20%, 30% of people who are not vaccinated, will clearly show that the unvaccinated, unless they've got particular medical conditions, really are no worse off and are not causing transmission. So, I think there is a desire now to eliminate the control group.



A control group shows that your medication or your lockdown isn’t so hot. So, I think that's another driver. A bit of desperation is coming in to get rid of the control group and just get everyone vaccinated, and then you can't see the signal anymore.”



Official Control Groups Have Been Eliminated



This is in fact precisely what Moderna and Pfizer have done: Both have eliminated the original control groups in their initial COVID injection trials by giving controls the real mRNA shot. This was done even though the trials are officially ongoing for another two years. So, they have already eliminated the control groups in the trials against which to assess the effectiveness and safety of these injections. Cummins comments:



“The whole thing is kind of a sham, and you don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to say it's a sham. Basically, elementary science has been inverted, turned upside down, macerated, flushed down the urinal. And that's without even getting into complicated stuff. It's crazy.



I mean, most people don't even realize it's under emergency use authorization (EUA). A guy in Ireland went to seven pharmacies and asked them the question, ‘What's the risk to my 20-year-old daughter from COVID? And what's the risk of side effects from the medication?’ And they couldn't really answer.



Pretty much all of them said emphatically, ‘This is fully tested.’ He showed them the documentation, that it's emergency use only. It's not fully [approved]. And they were kind of surprised. So even all the people administering [the COVID injections] are just not aware of any of the facts, it appears.



The pharmacists in question thought side effects were 1 in hundreds of thousands. But the Johnson & Johnson leaflet that this guy brought in showed up to 1 in 10,000 chance of a serious clot in brain, lymph or spleen, et cetera.



So, they weren't even really aware of the contents of the leaflet … So, there's no informed consent because the person administering [the injection] doesn't understand the [risks], and certainly the person getting it doesn't.”

Ok this is almost all fake news

Data shows

(A) vaccine provides significant protection from getting serious illness from COVID or death
(B) data in the U.K. is 60% in hospital are unvaccinated. The remainder are vaccinated but many of that second group are medically compromised.
(C) EU vaccines were NOT released under emergency use legislation only individual countries can do that. This is what the U.K. and US did ( and those countries indemnifies the pharma companies )

(d) pharmacies in Ireland have no hand or part in the vaccine program. They don’t know anything about it. Asking them would be like asking your local tyre repair centre about the vaccine

The vaccines demonstrably work as the data from the U.K. overwhelmingly shows.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by GreenHeaven

What’s Behind the COVID Jab Narrative?...

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Ok this is almost all fake news ...

Considering the source, looking for supporting evidence, checking whether others agree, asking the experts, and considering our biases are all useful skills in evaluating medical information.

GreenHeaven appears to be referring to an interview with Ivor Cummins:
“In this interview, Ivor Cummins shares his insights about the ineffectiveness of COVID countermeasures, and how to stay healthy in this time of COVID-19. While he does not have formal medical training, he’s well-trained in the scientific method and has a very analytical and logical mind He’s ...”
➥ https://vervetimes.com/data-reveal-t...untermeasures/

Ivor Cummins [aka: The Fat Emperor] is popular among COVID-deniers, anti-maskers, and anti-lockdown crowds.
Unfortunately, Cummins doesn't offer accurate information.
He's a former Research and Development manager at Hewlett-Packard, and a nutritional entrepreneur, promoting a low carb diet.

[Anders]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Interesting question.
People are sick and tired of even mild measures like masking and are desperate to get back to normal life.

I dont see that were we are in England. There's no longer a legal requirement to wear a mask in supermarkets but almost everyone still wears a mask.

[CatNewBee]

This stupid measures have to end now. Everybody, who wanted the shot got his shot, there is no waiting list any more, you show up and get your poison.

Anything beyond is personal risk. If you WANT to wear a mask, wear it, if you WANT another shot, get it. If you don't want anything of all, live your life.

There is no need for the society to enforce protection, those who don't care, don't care anyway. The young generation organize corona parties in the mean time to get infected and prevent the shots, when someone of the crowd gets tested positive, like in France.

Travel restrictions are BS, the virus is everywhere, it does not matter if you go to the supermarket or fly to Timbuktu. There is no virus free area, and it doesn't matter where you get it. Borders and border controls with tests cannot prevent a spread, because it is there on both sides of the border. You get tested negative and infected at the exit of the Airport by the taxi driver. This measures only work in the beginning of a Pandemic, once there is a spread, they are ineffective, containment is not possible any more.

Restaurants, Bars, Events for vaccinated only is also totaly stupid, as they can spread the virus too, and meet other people outside of this venues. This restrictions are just a placebo to show off the power of the governments and force the needles into more arms and bully the unvaccinated. They do not prevent any spread.

It is totally silly to FORCE health care workers to get vaccinated, they were unprotected while they care for covid patients in the past, either they had it already or they are immune naturally.

It's time to get back control of our lives and stop this stupidity. You are vaccinated, good for you. Wear masks if you want to or not. Not vaccinated and afraid of the virus - get the shot or stay home, self-isolate and wear mask, unvaxxed and not afraid - live your life, maybe get the C19 cold for a couple of days, stay home and after that off you go again.

We have to put an end of this and go back to normal life. The demonstrations in some countries are very promising, people are fed up with this scaremongering.

Very interesting scientific evidence that was not published yet is, that the LGBTQ community is immune to covid, as we see the CSD celebrations in Berlin not bothered by the police, but demonstrations against the measures are prohibited with massive pollice interventions.

[Cayuse51]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

It's time to get back control of our lives and stop this stupidity. You are vaccinated, good for you. Wear masks if you want to or not. Not vaccinated and afraid of the virus - get the shot or stay home, self-isolate and wear mask, unvaxxed and not afraid - live your life, maybe get the C19 cold for a couple of days, stay home and after that off you go again.

We have to put an end of this and go back to normal life. The demonstrations in some countries are very promising, people are fed up with this scaremongering.

Sentiments that all sound good, but if you are a public official how do manage hospitals filling up regular beds and ICU beds with Covid patients during a wave? Public health measures are the only way to slow the spread down to not overrun the system. Should unvaxxed patients receive a lower priority in, or no access to, the hospital system?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/othe...eft/ar-AAN4aaD

[goboatingnow]

CatNewBee writes sheer nonsense

* U.K. data shows that the vaccines inhibits the spread of the virus significantly

* U.K. data shows the unvaccinated are the majority in hospital with 66% ,

* U.K. data shows that the vaccine prevents significant illness

“
“If fully vaccinated, the risk of being hospitalised falls by about 90%,” said Prof David Spiegelhalter, chair of the Winton Centre for Risk and Evidence Communication, at Cambridge University. “

Whatever way you look at the data the vaccines are incredibly effective

Are they perfect no , there will always be “ breakthrough “ infections that doesn’t mean the vaccine isn’t working it is.

Public health measure are effective , we have seen that , lockdowns served to break the rise of infections almost everywhere they were used. It’s not pretty , but they worked

Your rights stop at my nose.
Or put another way , if you carry a significant infectious disease that has serious consequences you your personal freedoms don’t override my right not to be placed in danger by your freedoms.

That’s always been the overriding policy of public health


Let’s leave the conspiracy nut jobs , government power grabs etc etc outside the door for the looney fringe to scream about , it’s utter nonsense

( it always amuses me that conspiracy nut jobs will proclaim the government is incompetent at every turn then argue the very same organisation is capable of organising and executing a complex global control conspiracy !!!)

By the way CatNewBee I know loads of people who got colds , I’ve never seen anyone be as sick with anything like they were sick with COVID. Nor do I know colds that killed people

it’s no f-ing cold that’s for sure don’t belittle those that died or got seriously sick by comparing COVID to the common cold thank you.