Northern Europe during Pandemic -- Summers 2020 & 2021 & onwards

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

In this thread, we try to avoid euphemism, and use terms precisely.


"Lockdown" is used in the same way as defined in Webster's:


"Lockdown

"Definitions

"from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition.

• noun A protocol followed in an emergency that involves confining people in a secure place, such as the confinement of prison inmates in cells after a disturbance, or the locking of students and teachers in classrooms after a violent attack.
• noun A situation in which this protocol is undertaken.
• noun A facility, such as a prison, where people considered to be dangerous are locked inside living quarters or otherwise confined."

https://www.wordnik.com/words/lockdown


So, "lockdown" means stay-at-home orders -- laws confining people to their homes.


"Restrictions" is broader -- other measures short of confining people to their homes -- closing businesses, travel restrictions, restricting or banning public or private gatherings, masking requirements, etc.


Clear?

Maybe in your imagination, but lockdown has been bandied about and applied to all kinds of places where there was a host of limited restrictions.

Edit: the word Lock down or Lock down was used in approx 497 posts in this thread.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Paul L

. . . lockdown has been bandied about and applied to all kinds of places where there was a host of limited restrictions.. .

I agree completely. That is why I try to use the term precisely. When I write "lockdown", I often put afterwards "(defined as stay at home orders)" or something like that, in order to avoid confusion.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Maybe in your imagination, but lockdown has been bandied about and applied to all kinds of places where there was a host of limited restrictions.

Edit: the word Lock down or Lock down was used in approx 497 posts in this thread.

Now that's what I call seriously bored...

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Now that's what I call seriously bored...

Paul L had an app for that

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I agree completely. That is why I try to use the term precisely. When I write "lockdown", I often put afterwards "(defined as stay at home orders)" or something like that, in order to avoid confusion.

I think perhaps the proper wording for what I have seen happening in reality is;
"Restricted Lockdowns",
...As it only seems to apply to those without connectioms or justification to ignore.

[El Pinguino]

From what I have seen 'restrictions' are what you have in the northern hemisphere, the southern hemisphere has 'lockdowns'.

I like what Reuters is doing with that.
This is how they define it
'Lockdown
As COVID-19 infections began to be reported around the world, many countries responded by shutting down places like schools, workplaces and international borders in order to contain the spread of the virus.

This chart shows how different lockdown measures were implemented during the course of the pandemic.'
Site here https://graphics.reuters.com/world-c...s/new-zealand/

And this is how they display 'lockdown' info, broken down into schools, borders, workplaces, and of course 'stay at home'. In order displayed this is Norway, Finland, Chile and Australia. Note that fat bar = national, skinny bar = local.

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by Greg K

No, to the best of my knowledge you are wrong on that. The Pfizer pill is basically a protease inhibitor. You may be thinking of the Merck pill which, indeed, is a sort of gene therapy in that it disrupts viral replication by inducing severe mutation into the process.

Yes, you are right, protease inhibitor, similar working principle to IVM, blocking the receptor domain and the spike protein.

Merck was the other one.

Anyway, Germany has a population of roughly 80 million people and a stock of 50 million vaccine doses until the end of the year, more ordered for kids for next year. So they must inject them during the next weeks or dump them. No wonder there is a masdive push, they drown in vaccine at the moment, mainly Moderna, Pfizer is rationized and reserved for the below 30 population. J&J is comming soon as booster, large amounts of AZ was donated to 3rd world.

https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschl...Impfdosen.html

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

From what I have seen 'restrictions' are what you have in the northern hemisphere, the southern hemisphere has 'lockdowns'.

Where did you get that? "Lockdown" is used differently by different people. In the strictest sense (the way I like to use the term), it means stay at home orders. Others use it a little looser to describe other restrictive measures. Some people use it with no coherent meaning. Reuters is using it coherently, but broader than the way I use it (and broader than how it's defined in the dictionary).


Stay at home orders are used not only in the Southern Hemisphere. Used in most U.S. states, sometimes for months at a time, and almost all countries of Europe outside of Northern Europe.

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

. . .I like what Reuters is doing with that.
This is how they define it
'Lockdown
As COVID-19 infections began to be reported around the world, many countries responded by shutting down places like schools, workplaces and international borders in order to contain the spread of the virus.

This chart shows how different lockdown measures were implemented during the course of the pandemic.'
Site here https://graphics.reuters.com/world-c...s/new-zealand/

And this is how they display 'lockdown' info, broken down into schools, borders, workplaces, and of course 'stay at home'. In order displayed this is Norway, Finland, Chile and Australia. Note that fat bar = national, skinny bar = local.

The images you posted are not apples to apples -- Norway is workplaces, Finland is schools, Chile and Oz are stay at home.


Here's Oz and Finland, both "stay at home", so apples to apples:

Finland

Oz


It's very different. Finland had "recommended stay at home" for a few periods and no restriction at all for others; Oz had "require not leaving home" for most of the pandemic.



I had not seen this Reuters tracker before -- a very cool resource -- thanks for turning me on to this.


Another way to evaluate different pandemic measures is with the Oxford University "Stringency Index". This is represented in Our World in Data. This considers all measures including mandatory and recommended ones.





You can see that Finland is on a different planet from Oz in terms of restrictive measures.


I included Sweden also, which shows what ridiculous misinformation has been spread about Sweden. Sweden is stricter than Finland during most of the pandemic, and for long periods stricter than Oz! Quite different from those politicized stereotypes.

[El Pinguino]

I was simply offering up a variety of what you can source on the Reuter's site. Like hyperbole - it isn't illegal.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

I was simply offering up a variety of what you can source on the Reuter's site. Like hyperbole - it isn't illegal.

Not only is it not illegal, it's welcome. A very interesting resource -- thanks.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Where did you get that? "Lockdown" is used differently by different people. In the strictest sense (the way I like to use the term), it means stay at home orders. Others use it a little looser to describe other restrictive measures. Some people use it with no coherent meaning. Reuters is using it coherently, but broader than the way I use it (and broader than how it's defined in the dictionary).


Stay at home orders are used not only in the Southern Hemisphere. Used in most U.S. states, sometimes for months at a time, and almost all countries of Europe outside of Northern Europe.








The images you posted are not apples to apples -- Norway is workplaces, Finland is schools, Chile and Oz are stay at home.


Here's Oz and Finland, both "stay at home", so apples to apples:
Attachment 248726
Finland
Attachment 248727
Oz


It's very different. Finland had "recommended stay at home" for a few periods and no restriction at all for others; Oz had "require not leaving home" for most of the pandemic.



I had not seen this Reuters tracker before -- a very cool resource -- thanks for turning me on to this.


Another way to evaluate different pandemic measures is with the Oxford University "Stringency Index". This is represented in Our World in Data. This considers all measures including mandatory and recommended ones.


Attachment 248728


You can see that Finland is on a different planet from Oz in terms of restrictive measures.


I included Sweden also, which shows what ridiculous misinformation has been spread about Sweden. Sweden is stricter than Finland during most of the pandemic, and for long periods stricter than Oz! Quite different from those politicized stereotypes.

Oz had "require not leaving home" for most of the pandemic.
No - Oz didn't. It is clear from what I posted from Reuters that 'Australia' had very few restrictions apart from the international borders.
The states and territories had an assortment of restrictions - some statewide and some just targeting a few LGAs - which varied in duration and severity and sometimes overlapped. The only 'hard lockdown' was the quite brief - in the scheme of things - lockdown of a few Melbourne public housing tower blocks about 15 months ago. ( you can see that in the small red bit on the bar graph attached )
For the rest? Even in Dan's Gulag - while there were 5 km restrictions in some areas for some of the time - you could always go out for exercise and go down to the shops whenever you pleased.

A further note re the Reuters info, it isn't perfect. For both Australia and NZ it says all arrivals banned ( second graph). Not true, citizens and permanent residents could return home throught - with the notable but short lived exception of Australians trying to get home from India. In fact on several occasions free movement was allowed between Oz and Unzud.
So as always take anything you see on the inet with a grain of salt.

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

….The only 'hard lockdown' was the quite brief - in the scheme of things - lockdown of a few Melbourne public housing tower blocks about 15 months ago. ( you can see that in the small red bit on the bar graph attached )
For the rest? Even in Dan's Gulag - while there were 5 km restrictions in some areas for some of the time - you could always go out for exercise and go down to the shops whenever you pleased……

Melbourne with a population of 5+ million had the most days of enforced “stay at home lockdown” worldwide: a total of 262 days (during 2 long periods and 4 short).

For most of this time all shops except those deemed “essential” (grocery stores, pharmacies, takeaway food etc) were closed, movement was limited to a 5km radius, exercise was restricted to an hour per day and there was a 9pm - 5am curfew in place (all the above had limited exceptions).

Ping, why are you so keen to brush this off as no big deal?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Oz had "require not leaving home" for most of the pandemic.
No - Oz didn't. It is clear from what I posted from Reuters that 'Australia' had very few restrictions apart from the international borders.
The states and territories had an assortment of restrictions - some statewide and some just targeting a few LGAs - which varied in duration and severity and sometimes overlapped. The only 'hard lockdown' was the quite brief - in the scheme of things - lockdown of a few Melbourne public housing tower blocks about 15 months ago. ( you can see that in the small red bit on the bar graph attached )
For the rest? Even in Dan's Gulag - while there were 5 km restrictions in some areas for some of the time - you could always go out for exercise and go down to the shops whenever you pleased.

A further note re the Reuters info, it isn't perfect. For both Australia and NZ it says all arrivals banned ( second graph). Not true, citizens and permanent residents could return home throught - with the notable but short lived exception of Australians trying to get home from India. In fact on several occasions free movement was allowed between Oz and Unzud.
So as always take anything you see on the inet with a grain of salt.

Sorry, but Reuters most definitely does not say that. You are not reading it correctly. According to Reuters, you had mandatory stay at home orders for most of the pandemic.






Orange is mandatory stay at home.


And this lines up with the Oxford University stringency index, which shows Oz restrictions as the harshest in the world but for, possibly, Kiwiland, basically 3x as strict as Finland at any given time. It's fairly well known, that Melbourne holds the world record for the most locked down (i.e., under stay at home orders) city in the world.



I know you live in the country and don't have young children and haven't personally experienced much of these restrictions, but that doesn't mean they haven't existed. You seem to want to insist that your own personal experience, represents the whole situation in Australia, but that's just not so.



And I'm not and never did say that the restrictions were not worth it -- I don't know. Australia has had vastly less death than just about the whole rest of the developed world, even less than Finland. I don't know if the harsh restrictions were necessary or not for that result, but the result can't be argued with. But it's necessary to be conscious of the cost, in order to understand the whole picture.

[Pelagic]

Does someone have the latest update on the mechanics of Covid transmission from one person to another?

Can it be transmitted via touching common surfaces?

If yes, how long can a surface remain contaminated?

Is it carried only in the air from one infected breath and inhaled by another?

If yes, what is the potency in crowded spaces like an aircraft or subway?

How long will the virus remain dangerous either in air or on a surface?

What are the updated recommendations for safe distancing with a mask?

The early disinfecting recommendations of precautions for a family member returning from shopping were very extreme...... is this still the same?
Wipe down all groceries
Remove clothes to Q bin and shower

Seems this would be a good time to reinforce the specifics of what individuals should do and safe distances they should keep

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

................
I know you live in the country and don't have young children and haven't personally experienced much of these restrictions, but that doesn't mean they haven't existed. You seem to want to insist that your own personal experience, represents the whole situation in Australia, but that's just not so.
...........

Herein lies the rub. Dunno if you mean to or not but reading many of your comments about "lockdown" and Oz, you post about the regulations (for a time) for one section of the community and then insist it represents the whole situation in Australia but that's just not so.

Additionally these sections of the community are often way less than the majority experience.