Northern Europe during Pandemic -- Summers 2020 & 2021 & onwards

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

"hard time" is a term with specific meaning
You actually said 'sentenced to hard jail'. Now I can't find anything about that expression in Australian english.

I don't think I used the term "hard jail". If I did, it was a typo. Maybe "hard jail time"?

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

. . .Lets not start on indigenous incarceration - and indigenous treatment in the local lockup on a Saturday night - which is a blot on all of Australia.

That's way beyond the scope of this discussion. I didn't compare Australian prisons to American ones, but neither did I say that criminal justice in Australia is perfect.

Australia is about average in this regard among highly developed countries, with a few human rights problems, and not only with regard to the indigenous, but nothing compared to the profound issues we have in the States.

Even the Nordic countries do not treat their indigenous populations (the Sami and other ancient Northern peoples) ideally, but I think they are far ahead of the rest of us.

[Dockhead]

One thing I noticed for the first time today -- what is going on with vaccination in Sweden?





They are now seriously lagging the other Nordic countries, only a little better than the EU average, and only a little better than Germany.


This is not good.



Meanwhile, Norway and Finland have nearly caught up with Denmark, best in Europe but for Portugal. That's better, but what's going on in Sweden?

[sepharad]

"Just for Portugal" seems to have little external value. Just last week my friend and I were denied a flight to Morocco, because we were oblivious to the fact that Portugal was on "List B" for Morocco.



While we should have caught that fact, I will say that none of the airlines selling tickets in Portugal have been particularly forward about that, clearly stating it's your problem to search out the facts. Of course simply saying that in addition to 2 vaccinations and a certificate, you must ALSO have a PCR before flying would have been helpful.


So being the MOST vaccinated, with 2 shots and a cert, still managed to move us onto the "B list". With Delta expanding and now Omicron making an appearance, tightening up makes sense, though why a country with better vaccination and lower rates of infection would be moved to the "B list" eludes me.


I suspect politics, not science.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

..........
They broke the law quite intentionally just to watch a football match and put a whole state at risk by attending several possible superspreader events.
They acted like dills and dropkicks.
They got what was coming to them.

..............

Gotta agree.
What the upovers fail to realise ('cause the media is mostly silent on the matter) there literally hundreds (perhaps thousands) of Aussies running the various state borders and a few get caught by the wallopers. Of these, the vast majority get turned back and given a warning especially if they cough up a good excuse. Yes, those who can't, might get fined. Only the most egregious get before a magistrate and then only the worse of the worst get 'hard time'!

Sure the Wallopers get it wrong at times but mostly I trust the magistrates to make the proper decision for penalties especially as he/she has all the evidence in front of them. At least I trust them to be more on the ball than the commentators on CF.

FWIW "egregious" in the Aussie vernacular means "dills, dropkicks and dipsticks"

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by sepharad

"Just for Portugal" seems to have little external value. Just last week my friend and I were denied a flight to Morocco, because we were oblivious to the fact that Portugal was on "List B" for Morocco.

While we should have caught that fact, I will say that none of the airlines selling tickets in Portugal have been particularly forward about that, clearly stating it's your problem to search out the facts. Of course simply saying that in addition to 2 vaccinations and a certificate, you must ALSO have a PCR before flying would have been helpful.

So being the MOST vaccinated, with 2 shots and a cert, still managed to move us onto the "B list". With Delta expanding and now Omicron making an appearance, tightening up makes sense, though why a country with better vaccination and lower rates of infection would be moved to the "B list" eludes me.

I suspect politics, not science.

You not only have the highest vaccination rate in Europe, you also have a moderate infection rate of less than 300, so less than Norway or Denmark, and way under the EU average which is nearly 600.


How you got on that list I have no idea.

[Dockhead]

Well, that's it. We have Omicron amongst us in the Nordics.


https://www.thelocal.dk/20211201/den...-omicron-case/


And the person infected with Omicron was at a concert -- potentially superspreader event.



As the Russians say: "priekhali" -- we've arrived.

[Dockhead]

Significant tightening of measures in Sweden as of today. Indoor events of over 100 people will be only for the vaccinated. https://www.thelocal.se/20211201/and...ovid-strategy/

Tegnell reassures Swedes that there is no reason so far to believe that Omicron will cause more severe disease than other variants, and that the pandemic measures used so far are expected to work. Ibid. I guess, however, that this implies that those measures will be reimposed.

[GordMay]

Travel bans have failed, if they're judged by their effectiveness in keeping variants out permanently.
But bans can slow the entry of new variants into a country, which can give local health authorities more time to understand the threat, and prepare for it.

So far, about 24 countries have reported the new Omicron variant.

Politicians try to grab the easiest solutions, even the ones that may not be so effective, and sometimes at the expense of ignoring what would work.
And what would work, is a global strategy to make sure we have very few unvaccinated people.

A study [1], in the journal Science, that looked at bans in the earliest stages of the pandemic, found that "the travel quarantine introduced in Wuhan on 23 January 2020 only delayed epidemic progression by 3 to 5 days within China, but international travel restrictions did help to slow spread elsewhere in the world until mid-February.
Their results suggest that early detection, hand washing, self-isolation, and household quarantine will likely be more effective than travel restrictions, at mitigating this pandemic."

The study concluded that a travel ban can help a country, when it's combined with strong internal measures, but not when it's seen as a substitute for domestic responses.

[1] “The effect of travel restrictions on the spread of the 2019 novel coronavirus (COVID-19) outbreak” ~ by Matteo Chinazzi et al
➥ https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aba9757

[Montanan]

European Union President Suggests Countries Within Bloc Make COVID Vaccines Mandatory

The head of the European Union's executive branch on Wednesday suggested making the COVID-19 vaccine mandatory in the bloc's 27 nations,

A surge of cases across the continent has caused many member nations to once again increase their restrictions and mask requirements. The EU's current vaccination rate is 66 percent.

"It is understandable and appropriate to lead this discussion now—how we can encourage and potentially think about mandatory vaccination within the European Union," European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said.

The EU's 27 health ministers are scheduled to discuss the Omicron variant on Tuesday, then share their recommendations. EU leaders will then consider the recommendations at their December 16 summit.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...?ocid=msedgntp

[goboatingnow]

Note this is Leyden’s personal view. It has got no traction

[Montanan]

Dutch health authorities discovered the Omicron coronavirus variant in samples from as early as November 19, five days before the World Health Organization said that South Africa first reported the strain, the Associated Press reported.

The discovery makes even more unclear the timeline and origin of Omicron's emergence as scientists try to figure out how dangerous it might be.

https://www.newsweek.com/dutch-find-...covery-1654456

[Zippee]

I hate to face it, but Omicron is truly akin to a brand new disease.

All the numbers and amateur interpretations of the data were questionable in the first place - and when you consider that these focused first on Alpha and Beta, then replaced by variant Delta, soon to be completely supplanted by Omicron, well you get the point.

Remember when trace, test and quarantine were possible? When 70% vaccination might well have resulted in herd immunity? And then 90%? And soon even this unreachable goal will be ancient history as Omicron - and further variants will explode ever faster, due to even less control?

We are so far behind the curve and still there is not even the beginning of a unified world effort - not to mention the continued corporately controlled limits imposed more for profit than human need. Are we really surprised that Omicron emerged in a continent with abysmally low vaccination? Will we be surprised when Omicron reinfects the whole world again - even the vaccinated - thus leading to even more mutations? Where are the rapid response teams and why were there none in Africa?

It's deja vu all over again it appears.

Capitalism at work? Yes. Evil? No. Amoral? Absolutely, and for three basic reasons: profit, profit and profit. So let's keep refilling our drinks and posturing for the hopeful normalcy that honestly is just not going to happen, at least by current efforts. We are losing, and that is no surprise. With one possible exception:

If the virus itself does it for us - temporarily I might add...

[boatman61]

Big doubts it originated in S Africa.. they did identify it and flag it up but actual origin is still uncertain.
Could be a mutation from a vaccinated person.. still lots questions.

[laird]

Greece is going to find over 60,s 100 euro every month that they don't vaccinate ,the EU is threatening to bring. In compulsory vacation ,so much for liberal democracy

Or do they know something we don't

[JPA Cate]

FWIW "egregious" in the Aussie vernacular means "dills, dropkicks and dipsticks"

Possibly somewhat different from "outside the herd", but included in that group.

But guys, please remember that pandemics usually take at least 5 years to resolve, and the things that cause them go through a variety of mutations, before a new homeostasis is reached.

Hang in there, and remember, we want there to be room in ICU for us, if needed. One can parse the issues for a very long time, but cut to the chase. And if you don't want the ventilator or resuscitation, for goodness sake put in in writing for the hospital.


Ann