Northern Europe during Pandemic -- Summers 2020 & 2021 & onwards

[Greg K]

For all those who advocate vaccine coercion and mandates .
Lest you forget..

Swine Flue Vaccination Fraud 1976. The lies and manipulation by those we are asked to trust now. "60 Minutes' clip ( 12 min long). When journalism was still journalism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1jV3tJ2Lqw

[CatNewBee]

Very interesting talk about South Africa's situation today.

No comment, just the facts, what we know and don't know.

https://youtu.be/a26ak2tLl3o

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by Zippee

Like many here, and with Covid giving us the time and interest, I do my very best to stay informed in the hope that we can make better personal decisions. This morning I ran across this interview, and let me say this:

I learned more from this interview, and realized how little even the most informed really know - that I have in two years and hundreds of hours on the net. I'll post this link again, but if there ever was a single interview that must be watched (more than once), this is it...

It is not short, but I guarantee every minute of it is worth your time.

Thanks, very sympathetic person, but the message at the end is scary.

Push for global immunizations for anything that comes around, more experiments, more unleashed "science", more globalism, push for mandates, centralized power to WHO, talking about using the momentum, no recognition of the vaccine insuries, talking only about sore arms - this is not the reality.

At least admitting, the vaccines do not prevent spread, and promised more upfront than they cold deliver.

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

Thanks, very sympathetic person, but the message at the end is scary.

Push for global immunizations for anything that comes around, more experiments, more unleashed "science", more globalism, push for mandates, centralized power to WHO, talking about using the momentum, no recognition of the vaccine insuries, talking only about sore arms - this is not the reality.

At least admitting, the vaccines do not prevent spread, and promised more upfront than they cold deliver.

But they do for some extent, Pfizer at 60% and AZ at 45% against Delta variant. Which means unvaccinated get infected twice the rate of vaccinated. Against Omicron nobody knows yet..

[wolfgal]

Originally Posted by Zippee

Like many here, and with Covid giving us the time and interest, I do my very best to stay informed in the hope that we can make better personal decisions. This morning I ran across this interview, and let me say this:

I learned more from this interview, and realized how little even the most informed really know - that I have in two years and hundreds of hours on the net. I'll post this link again, but if there ever was a single interview that must be watched (more than once), this is it...

It is not short, but I guarantee every minute of it is worth your time.

excellent!

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

But they do for some extent, Pfizer at 60% and AZ at 45% against Delta variant. Which means unvaccinated get infected twice the rate of vaccinated. Against Omicron nobody knows yet..

Of course the vaccines REDUCE spread, and a lot. Half the infection rate compared to unvaccinated is almost the worst case, too. Having a larger share of the population vaccinated has a big effect on the dynamics of the pandemic.


With Omicron, however, all bets are off -- we don't know yet, as you say.

[Dockhead]

Our numbers today:







Germany and Denmark look somewhat scary, but note that the death rate in Denmark is flat and not that high.



Infections tick up and now even Sweden is over 200. But no place in the Nordics is there much death or hospitalization. The old moderate Nordic measures, mostly recommendations, have been put back on throughout the region so we are ready, come what may. Vaccination continues apace with all Nordic countries now having broken 70% of the entire population vaccinated.



Germany is the worst, but death is still below the EU average. The Germans are alarmed, and the incoming "Traffic Light Coalition" government has just announced they are planning mandatory vaccination:


https://www.faz.net/aktuell/gesellsc...-17671781.html


UK is doing fine, I think, with death rate now below 2 and still falling slowly. I will consider sailing back to the UK in early spring after my transatlantic. I'm homesick for Cowes and the London theatres and my friends there.



I am predicting another completely normal cruising season in the Baltic for 2022, even more normal than 2021, at least for sailors with a European interoperable vaccination certificate.

[Zippee]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Of course the vaccines REDUCE spread, and a lot. Half the infection rate compared to unvaccinated is almost the worst case, too. Having a larger share of the population vaccinated has a big effect on the dynamics of the pandemic.

With Omicron, however, all bets are off -- we don't know yet, as you say.

As per the "worst case", you are so right!

It just so happened I was exploring this question - a good, large sample study - found that after two jabs, the mortality rate for post Moderna and Pfizer were about 0.34%. For the unvaccinated: 1.47%.

Per the video posted earlier, I found it noteworthy that vaccines are not designed to prevent infection, but rather to limit the severity. It's understandable that we all tend to focus on cases and mortality, but as seen above, the mortality rates - vaccinated - are very low.

The real risk for by far the most of us is that around a third of all infections result in long haul effects - organ damage, loss of smell/taste, extreme fatigue, memory loss and fogginess and more. That these affect about 33% of all who are infected should concern us all. Much of this damage is permanent - and will affect our long term quality of life to varying but still concerning degree.

Sadly, the various data sources focus more on other factors like mortality, cases, age breakouts, tests, etc. Still, the long haul effects are well known, and don't appear to be going away, and this after two years of experience and data.

Let me end by saying there was a report that the Pfizer vaccine may be FAR less effective against Omicron, but this is VERY premature and based on extremely limited data, ergo unreliable.

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by Zippee

As per the "worst case", you are so right!

It just so happened I was exploring this question - a good, large sample study - found that after two jabs, the mortality rate for post Moderna and Pfizer were about 0.34%. For the unvaccinated: 1.47%.

Per the video posted earlier, I found it noteworthy that vaccines are not designed to prevent infection, but rather to limit the severity. It's understandable that we all tend to focus on cases and mortality, but as seen above, the mortality rates - vaccinated - are very low.

The real risk for by far the most of us is that around a third of all infections result in long haul effects - organ damage, loss of smell/taste, extreme fatigue, memory loss and fogginess and more. That these affect about 33% of all who are infected should concern us all. Much of this damage is permanent - and will affect our long term quality of life to varying but still concerning degree.
...snip

Besides that there might be some more long term effects we don't know yet. The Asian flu in the late fifties caused as sequelae Parkinsons disease. Few family friends of my parents who got it..

[laird]

I had a conversation with a nurse this afternoon ,she told me that the medical staff have been instructed to self test every two days ,as of now that's the only change that I'm aware of within the NHS

[Dockhead]

Very preliminary, so still pretty sketchy, but:

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/12...gainst-omicron

Antibodies against Omicron strong after an mRNA booster, and T-cell immunity strong in any case, as the parts of the virus recognized by t-cells are not much mutated.

If it turns out to really be like that, then that's good news.

[Seaworthy Lass]

A few new regulations are coming into effect in England from Monday 13th. Masks in shops and public transport were added a couple of weeks ago, the first restrictions since “Freedom Day” on July 19th.

“Johnson said people must work from home where possible from Monday and face masks would be a legal requirement in most public indoor areas such as theatres and cinemas from Friday, with exemptions for eating and drinking in hospitality venues.
People are already required to wear masks on public transport and in shops.
Vaccine passports available to the double-vaccinated on the NHS app will be necessary for those wanting to attend large crowded venues such as nightclubs from next week. But Johnson insisted there was no need to cancel Christmas parties or nativity plays, and nightclubs will remain open.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...s-mask-wearing


Scotland has never fully lifted restrictions. The above have basically applied since the last stay at home lockdown finished in April, with the vaccine passport introduced for some venues in summer. One new change is that proof of a negative lateral flow test (self tested and reported on the day to the NHS with a confirmation text) will be accepted.

Lateral flow tests are still available free of charge and provided in packs of 7. People have been encouraged to test daily and this recommendation is ramping up with the arrival of the Omicron varaint.

SWL

[CatNewBee]

Germany says you need the booster to be considered fully vaccinated, two shots aren't enough. 2 shots do not protect from omicron, but the third would neutralize the virus. How could a third dose of an ineffective vaccine neutralize and erradicate the virus?

Well 50 million vaccines waiting and omicron may ruin the business.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

A few new regulations are coming into effect in England from Monday 13th. Masks in shops and public transport were added a couple of weeks ago, the first restrictions since “Freedom Day” on July 19th.

“Johnson said people must work from home where possible from Monday and face masks would be a legal requirement in most public indoor areas such as theatres and cinemas from Friday, with exemptions for eating and drinking in hospitality venues.
People are already required to wear masks on public transport and in shops.
Vaccine passports available to the double-vaccinated on the NHS app will be necessary for those wanting to attend large crowded venues such as nightclubs from next week. But Johnson insisted there was no need to cancel Christmas parties or nativity plays, and nightclubs will remain open.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...s-mask-wearing


Scotland has never fully lifted restrictions. The above have basically applied since the last stay at home lockdown finished in April, with the vaccine passport introduced for some venues in summer. One new change is that proof of a negative lateral flow test (self tested and reported on the day to the NHS with a confirmation text) will be accepted.

Lateral flow tests are still available free of charge and provided in packs of 7. People have been encouraged to test daily and this recommendation is ramping up with the arrival of the Omicron varaint.

SWL

The new restrictions in the UK are similar to what we have here. Work from home is a recommendation, as is masking in shops and public transportation, none of this is mandatory.


However, requiring a vaccine certificate as a condition to entering a restaurant or other public gathering venue, which is optional for the owner or organizer, seems to be almost universally implemented. Restaurants who choose to require a vaccine cert are allowed to stay open as late as they want, it seems.


Free antigen tests, self administered, and accepted in lieu of a vaccine cert is I think a terrific, humane idea. Kudos to the Scots. That will make "vaccine apartheid" much milder, without, I guess, adding much risk. Self-administration means you don't have to go somewhere and stand in line for it, a huge impediment to something casual like going to a restaurant. I think this is really good policy which will allow also unvaccinated people to participate in society.

[GordMay]

Rapid mass antigen lateral flow tests are unable to distinguish between infected people, who are no longer transmitting the virus, and those who are still infectious.

This could be problematic, if someone interpreted a negative test result, as a license to stop taking precautions and, for example, attend a party, or visit an elderly relative indoors.

However, the test is better at detecting people with high viral loads, who are most likely to pass the virus to other people.