Northern Europe during Pandemic -- Summers 2020 & 2021 & onwards

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Greg K

. . . The statement authored by Greg Gonsalves, an assistant Professor of Epidemiology, provides links to two sketchy papers, one of which was funded by Pharma ( in Brazil) and another that used remote methodology and self reporting without any clinical observation to support his argument that HCQ is ineffective while, at the same time, ignoring the 50 some studies and thousands of observational reports from practicing doctors worldwide which attest to the contrary.. . .
Take the time and view the video of Risch's interview and tell where you disagree with him. Then we can have a discussion.

I think these discussions are fundamentally pointless and not really relevant to cruising.

Some people trust the established process for testing and approving drugs for treatment, and other people do not, and prefer to figure out what drugs will be effective based on other information.

That's really all it boils down to. Those of us who trust the process (that doesn't mean we think it's infallible, just that we don't believe that there is a better process available at the moment) are really not that much interested in different theories about what drug might work, which have not been through the established process. As much as anything, this is triage of time -- am I going to devote time to second guessing the FDA and NIH? For myself, I can say for sure not. Esoecially when analogous agencies in the civilized world have come to the same conclusions. They might get something wrong from time to time, but I am pretty sure that what they get wrong is a whole lot less than what I would get wrong by doing my own research on social media.

So maybe it's best just to agree to disagree, OK?

[laird]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I think these discussions are fundamentally pointless and not really relevant to cruising.

Some people trust the established process for testing and approving drugs for treatment, and other people do not, and prefer to figure out what drugs will be effective based on other information.

That's really all it boils down to. Those of us who trust the process (that doesn't mean we think it's infallible, just that we don't believe that there is a better process available at the moment) are really not that much interested in different theories about what drug might work, which have not been through the established process. As much as anything, this is triage of time -- am I going to devote time to second guessing the FDA and NIH? For myself, I can say for sure not. Esoecially when analogous agencies in the civilized world have come to the same conclusions. They might get something wrong from time to time, but I am pretty sure that what they get wrong is a whole lot less than what I would get wrong by doing my own research on social media.

So maybe it's best just to agree to disagree, OK?

I agree and I'm even more astounded that I find a lawyer talking in a language I can understand

I've seen the effects of this pandemic from the start ,Im not getting my opinions from various persons on yt ,I'm seeing this from the front line , no doubt in years to come people will look back and say "I told you so" at present I think the NHS is doing a stellar job .

[davil]

Ivermectin

As stated on my previous posting and only my clinical concern about taking medications of any nature without proper professional supervision.
Physicians have relied on the
PDR
https://www.pdr.net/browse-by-drug-name
used as a reference for dosage applications and complications.


I share this to be used for those with questions about this particular drug.
Have selected some excerpts that concern me and should concern any potential user, with the hope when somebody decides to use it is more informed.

CONTRAINDICATIONS / PRECAUTIONS

General Information

Ivermectin is not an antiviral drug and is not FDA-approved for treating or preventing COVID-19. Off-label use of any drug can cause serious harm. Ivermectin intended for veterinary use in animals has not been evaluated for use in humans. Animal products are often highly concentrated and such high doses can be toxic in humans. Do not use veterinary ivermectin products as substitutes for FDA-approved human ivermectin products prescribed by a health care provider for appropriate indications.[65256]

Ivermectin is contraindicated in patients with hypersensitivity to any component of the product.[34399]
-----------------------------------------------------



ADVERSE REACTIONS
Listed from Severe Moderate to Mild
Long list elicited only Severe for brevity

SEVERE

angioedema / Rapid / 1.2-1.2
Stevens-Johnson syndrome / Delayed / 0-1.0
toxic epidermal necrolysis / Delayed / 0-1.0
seizures / Delayed / 0-1.0
ocular hemorrhage / Delayed / 0-1.0
coma / Early / 0-1.0
uveitis / Delayed / Incidence not known
visual impairment / Early / Incidence not known
keratitis / Delayed / Incidence not known

------------------------------------------------------------
Again to repeat

If a person decides to use it, please, make an appointment with a Veterinary, they have more experience as most physicians do not.
" Doctor of Veterinary Medicine (DVM)
They have a fully accredited rigorous four-year professional program preceded by three to four years of pre-professional studies."

[davefromoregon]

“Natural immunity”… How many healthcare strategies would we accept with a 2% mortality rate and an even higher hospitalization rate? That is one of the stupidest terms to come down the pike in the US in a really long time.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by davefromoregon

“Natural immunity”… How many healthcare strategies would we accept with a 2% mortality rate and an even higher hospitalization rate? That is one of the stupidest terms to come down the pike in the US in a really long time.

I don't really know what "strategy" you are referring to. Maybe you can clarify?



"Natural immunity" is not a "stupid term"; it's a real thing. Natural immunity is one of the several factors which can slow down or stop epidemics. People can have immunity from vaccination, or from having been previously infected, and there are some other types of immunity too. From the CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/immunity-types.htm

[davil]

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/c...-distribution/

More Than 8.53 Billion Shots
Given: Covid-19 Tracker
In the U.S., 485 million doses have been administered
Updated: December 14, 2021, 6:34 PM EST

The Guardian
A terrible tragedy’: US passes 800,000 Covid deaths – highest in the world
Figure deemed doubly heartbreaking amid widespread availability of vaccines, as WHO warns Omicron is spreading at unprecedented rate

[Zippee]

ADVERSE REACTIONS
Listed from Severe Moderate to Mild
Long list elicited only Severe for brevity

SEVERE

angioedema / Rapid / 1.2-1.2
Stevens-Johnson syndrome / Delayed / 0-1.0
toxic epidermal necrolysis / Delayed / 0-1.0
seizures / Delayed / 0-1.0
ocular hemorrhage / Delayed / 0-1.0
coma / Early / 0-1.0
uveitis / Delayed / Incidence not known
visual impairment / Early / Incidence not known
keratitis / Delayed / Incidence not known

Again to repeat

If a person decides to use it, please, make an appointment with a Veterinary, they have more experience as most physicians do not. " Doctor of Veterinary Medicine (DVM)..."

I'm personally more interested in their much safer and more appropriate spay and neutering services, lol...

I fear that this kind of repeated advice - while technically accurate - may be misconstrued as an implied recommendation. It certainly rejects current medical guidance and treatment. It strikes me as kind of - if you want to commit suicide here's a way that might work. It also implies a rejection of the medical profession based on governmental guidance - which have pretty much rejected both HCG and LVE as not yet either/or studied, tested and/or fully approved by WHO, CDC, NHS, et al...

Proof of the vulnerability of the public at large is the fact that IVE has become almost impossible to obtain from the usual suppliers, based on the widespread purchase and likely home use with little more than YouTube guidance.

I'm afraid - lol - that that horse has left the barn...

[laird]

Here in the UK ,it's covid passports for us , I've gone and got mine ,it did not take long ,it lists your shot dates and booster dates , two AZ shots for me and a Pfizer booster two months ago

I wonder if they will be offering a second booster three months after the first

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by laird

Here in the UK ,it's covid passports for us , I've gone and got mine ,it did not take long ,it lists your shot dates and booster dates , two AZ shots for me and a Pfizer booster two months ago

I wonder if they will be offering a second booster three months after the first

If you come sailing in the Baltic in the spring, you'll likely need that covid passport. In several countries here, you need the Interoperable European Covid certificate to get into restaurants, shops, theatres, etc. By then the UK certificate should hopefully have been integrated with the European system.


I had a lot of trouble with that with my paper CDC vax cert, which is accepted at borders but not in private establishments. A couple of weeks ago I got my booster in Finland and finally got the magic QR code.

[laird]

New infections in the UK have hit a new level 78600 for a single day with deaths at 165

let's hope that omicron is as mild as is being suggested

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by laird

New infections in the UK have hit a new level 78600 for a single day with deaths at 165

let's hope that omicron is as mild as is being suggested

UK death rate is flat or slightly falling -- still. It's slightly lower than it was a months ago despite the spike in infections. So far so good.







Covid patients in hospital up slightly but still down on a month ago.


Cases soaring in Denmark, now way over 1000, a major outbreak by any standards and something never seen anywhere in the Nordics ever before at any stage of the pandemic.


But like the UK, death rate is still low, and even lower in other Nordic countries.



Germany infections rates steadily down for the last two weeks but death rate is moderately high.


My new favorite pandemic blog: https://yourlocalepidemiologist.subs...-update-dec-13


This is from an actual epidemiologist, and is full of interesting information. There is more cautiously good news about Omicron, but she argues persuasively (in my opinion) that it is too early still to draw conclusions. Interesting discussion of various things which could be at play in S. Africa.

[Anders]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

If you come sailing in the Baltic in the spring, you'll likely need that covid passport. In several countries here, you need the Interoperable European Covid certificate to get into restaurants, shops, theatres, etc. By then the UK certificate should hopefully have been integrated with the European system.

The NHS covid pass already works in the EU.

[Zippee]

My new favorite pandemic blog: https://yourlocalepidemiologist.subs...-update-dec-13

This is from an actual epidemiologist, and is full of interesting information. There is more cautiously good news about Omicron, but she argues persuasively (in my opinion) that it is too early still to draw conclusions. Interesting discussion of various things which could be at play in S. Africa.

Great link Dock... a bit more technical for those who are so inclined, and quite valuable, and in nice agreement with Campbell who is perhaps more explanatory. Both provide proper source links. Bookmarked, thanks.

We all must have patience - the next two weeks should begin to finally tell the story, although it's fair to say that the UK experience should be definitive for the rest of the world.

[Exile]

An opinion piece from the WSJ but one with several facts about Pfizer's new Covid treatment drug "Paxlovid" which are informative. At this point, most of this factual information is obviously coming from Pfizer itself.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/pfizers...=hp_opin_pos_1

A few highlights for those for whom the article may be paywalled:

1. Paxlovid "was found to reduce hospitalization or death by 88% in high-risk groups when taken within five days of symptom onset. The antiviral inhibits the machinery the virus uses to replicate so it’s less likely to be dodged by new variants. Pfizer says the drug blocked Omicron in lab tests."

2. Pfizer has applied to the FDA for emergency use authorization.

3. "The Biden Administration last month ordered 10 million courses at a cost of $5.3 billion."

4. "Pfizer has signed a voluntary licensing agreement with the United Nations-backed nonprofit Medicines Patent Pool for distribution around the world."

5. Along with significantly reducing serious illness requiring hospitalization, "Pfizer's study also showed a 10-fold reduction in viral load, which suggests it could substantially reduce transmission." (Emphasis mine).

[laird]

It would appear that the new omicron variant is starting to bite , we hit 88,300 here today in the UK with omicron passing delta as the main cause

We lost one electrician off of our team this morning ,he is now self isolating ,I had to visit a medical centre ( to.rearrange his work load ) and the manager was on the front desk as three of her staff had called in with covid this morning

We are heading for full lockdown soon ,I think they will do this to.protect the NHS , this variant may be less deadly but the sheer numbers of infected could overwhelm the system especially if the staff start having to isolate in numbers