Northern Europe during Pandemic -- Summers 2020 & 2021 & onwards

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by tp12

I'd like to add two more things to consider. Sweden has one of the highest deaths per infections rate in the world and is 10th in the world in deaths per million of population.

Go back and read Barnakiel's response and let it go. No one will know the total cost of this mess in lives or social or economic issues for a few years. Lets focus on what happens next.

[tp12]

Originally Posted by Macblaze

Go back and read Barnakiel's response and let it go. No one will know the total cost of this mess in lives or social or economic issues for a few years. Lets focus on what happens next.

Thanks, but I decline.


It's true that we won't know the total cost for a few years. But that doesn't mean we don't know the cost now or lack the ability to analyse decisions taken in terms of numbers, trends and comparables.

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by tp12

Thanks, but I decline.


It's true that we won't know the total cost for a few years. But that doesn't mean we don't know the cost now or lack the ability to analyse decisions taken in terms of numbers, trends and comparables.

Well enjoy your one-side internet argument then.

I just wish you and Dockhead could keep it to one thread.

[tp12]

Originally Posted by Macblaze

Well enjoy your one-side internet argument then.

I just wish you and Dockhead could keep it to one thread.

We all have opinions, you're expressing yours. That's what happens on forums, after all. If you want to see a particular discussion happen you're also free to start a particular thread.

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by tp12

We all have opinions, you're expressing yours. That's what happens on forums, after all. If you want to see a particular discussion happen you're also free to start a particular thread.

I am? So good to hear. Of course I could just fill this one with Sweden bashing... no wait, that's been done already. Drat. I could go to another thread and fill that with... nope, that's been done too.

Tell you what I'll just keep expressing my opinion of your opinion until I hit a 1000 posts. Lucky for you that's just a couple away.

So back to the topic, the totally irresponsible Swedes have the worst numbers according to totally unauthenticated set of numbers (lies, damn lies and statistics don't you know), but are they hoping for a second half recovery where-in their strategy plays out. Will they succeed? Will the numbers betray them. Stay tuned for the exciting conclusion!

[barnakiel]

BTW


That 'borders closed' etc thing is a scam. I got taken in too.



Here, in the Canaries (this is Spain) if a sailboat arrives, they are held 14 days at anchor, in a 'quarantine'.


But when a jet arrives, people from London or Stockholm are allowed to just walk into the town.



However, talking Northern Europe, I would expect more consistency in border checks. They are known out there for neatness, cleanliness and orderliness.


Ordnung must sein. Or something like that.



b.

[tp12]

Originally Posted by Macblaze

I am? So good to hear. Of course I could just fill this one with Sweden bashing... no wait, that's been done already. Drat. I could go to another thread and fill that with... nope, that's been done too.

Tell you what I'll just keep expressing my opinion of your opinion until I hit a 1000 posts. Lucky for you that's just a couple away.

So back to the topic, the totally irresponsible Swedes have the worst numbers according to totally unauthenticated set of numbers (lies, damn lies and statistics don't you know), but are they hoping for a second half recovery where-in their strategy plays out. Will they succeed? Will the numbers betray them. Stay tuned for the exciting conclusion!

You seem upset. Relax. People post stuff that annoys me, too. It's the same for everyone. Welcome to forums and the internet.

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by tp12

You seem upset. Relax. People post stuff that annoys me, too. It's the same for everyone. Welcome to forums and the internet.

Bloody internet. All nuance gets lost. I'm not upset. Bored maybe. Mocking certainly. Amused by people's stubbornness definitely. And jonesing for that 1000 post count.

And this is it. Good night and sweet dreams to one and all.

[Montanan]

Forum Decorum recommended read. https://planetbotch.blogspot.com/201...on-forums.html

"Rather, I’d like to outline some of the common traps into which forum users (including me) can fall during heated forum discourse, and to add in some of the principles I’ve found useful in making a better argument, with less hassle.

THE BASE RULES…"

[tp12]

Originally Posted by Macblaze

Bloody internet. All nuance gets lost. I'm not upset. Bored maybe. Mocking certainly. Amused by people's stubbornness definitely. And jonesing for that 1000 post count.



And this is it. Good night and sweet dreams to one and all.

Fair enough. Maybe I can help you get to 1000 [emoji16]

[Muaddib1116]

At the risk of derailing this vigorous argument, does anyone have a good idea of how Sweden and Finland are going to open their borders in couple weeks?

From what I've gathered, Finland is opening their borders on the 14th, but incoming travelers will have to undergo a 14 day quarantine upon arrival. I'm curious if this means that they will allow recreational boaters in, as long as they quarantine? and is there any talk about how long this quarantine policy will be in effect?

The info I've found on Sweden says that they will open on the 15th per the EU restriction deadline. Does anyone know if they are planning on instituting an incoming traveler quarantine policy? Any info about any aspect of this would be appreciated.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Muaddib1116

At the risk of derailing this vigorous argument, does anyone have a good idea of how Sweden and Finland are going to open their borders in couple weeks?

From what I've gathered, Finland is opening their borders on the 14th, but incoming travelers will have to undergo a 14 day quarantine upon arrival. I'm curious if this means that they will allow recreational boaters in, as long as they quarantine? and is there any talk about how long this quarantine policy will be in effect?

The info I've found on Sweden says that they will open on the 15th per the EU restriction deadline. Does anyone know if they are planning on instituting an incoming traveler quarantine policy? Any info about any aspect of this would be appreciated.

FYI:

https://www.visitfinland.com/article...land/#3ccaed8e

Information about COVID-19
Updated 5.5.2020 at 9:30 EET.

Finland is opening up one step at a time after declaring a nationwide state of emergency due to the Covid-19/Coronavirus outbreak. Finnish borders will open for work-based and essential travel from the EU Schengen Area starting 14 May.

International travelers from the EU Schengen Area may enter Finland from 14 May onwards if they have a permanent work contract in Finland or essential reason to do so. Proof of employment needs to be presented at the border when entering Finland. Those entering Finland are expected to remain in quarantine-like conditions for 14 days upon arrival, spending time only at home or at their work place.

Restaurants in Finland can gradually begin serving customers on location starting 1 June but restrictions to opening times and customer numbers may apply. More information will become available by 13 May. Currently many restaurants are closed or sell takeaway.

Cultural venues will also gradually open as of 1 June. However large events of over 500 people will not be allowed until 31 July. Gatherings of over 50 people will also become possible as of 1 June until further notice.

More informations on reduced Covid-19 restrictions in Finland is available on the Finnish Government’s coronavirus https://valtioneuvosto.fi/en/information-on-coronavirus

[Muaddib1116]

Thanks, I found that website earlier today. I guess I misread it slightly though. So the 14th opening is still just for essential/work based travel. So probably not for recreational boaters.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Muaddib1116

Thanks, I found that website earlier today. I guess I misread it slightly though. So the 14th opening is still just for essential/work based travel. So probably not for recreational boaters.

Yes, Finnish border is not yet open for leisure travel -- contrary to what we expected. Most of the other restrictions (which were always mild compared to the rest of Europe) have been lifted or will be lifted the beginning of June. I will be allowed to sail to Finland since I have business there, and there are no restrictions on cruising around in Finnish waters, but until the border is opened the rest of the way, it seems I won't be able to leave Finnish waters and come back.


So it's a hell of a thing. Swedish borders are open to anyone arriving from inside the EU, but are closed to anyone arriving from outside. There are no restrictions on cruising around in Swedish waters.


The Danish border is supposed to be open on Sunday. We shall see whether it is for "essential business/employment reasons" like Finland, or not. There have never been any restrictions on recreational boating in Denmark and you are free to cruise around in Danish waters.


That is the status as of now. We are all hoping for full opening of borders, at least between Nordic countries, soon. Stay tuned.


On the other side of the Baltic, the Baltic States open borders among themselves next week, and it seems to be a full opening with no restriction on recreational travel.


Poland is supposed to open its borders on the 13th of May, but it has abruptly cancelled this kind of thing before at the last minute, so I'm not holding my breath.



GOOD NEWS: Unlike in Scandinavia, where recreational boating was never prohibited, the German states closed marinas. But now the German State of Schleswig-Holstein (including Kiel and most of the German Baltic coast and part of the North Sea coast) has opened up for recreational sailing subject to mild restrictions on shower blocks etc. See: https://www.sporthafen-kiel.de/aktuelles Marinas in Schleswig-Holstein are now open. The external borders of Germany are supposed to open on 15 May but again -- we shall see.


Next week it should be clear what we're dealing with. If Denmark and Germany open borders to non-business travel (and so far no information that they will not), then a big swath of the Baltic Sea will be open for normal cruising.


The Swedish archipelagos are a paradise -- may be an excellent place to be over the summer.

[mjscottinnc]

Originally Posted by tp12

I notice you offer no analysis yet just insult people. Thanks for your contribution.

I’m 67 years old and spent the majority of my life working in healthcare as a practitioner and researcher. You and this forum are not the experts I was speaking of. Step back, take a breath, everything said isn’t about you or personal. As for my contribution, your welcome.