Northern Europe during Pandemic -- Summers 2020 & 2021 & onwards

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Sorry to hear about your cousin and hope she & her family work it all out.


My mother's younger sister got polio when she was a kid in the 30s. Her left shoulder and hand were withered and clawed, respectively. She was an unusually sunny and optimistic person, and later in life came to live with us after her husband died on Halloween Day in 1957 of an totally unexpected heart attack.



When the sugar cubes and then shots came out for polio, NO ONE said "No!" No one. Why would anyone wish that kind of suffering on anyone?


Now we have idiots who see conspiracies behind everything trying to keep THEM safe and healthy.


Two years ago we were all hoping for vaccines. Now we have them and there are still people who refuse them, or demand them when it is altogether too late, or remain deniers until their last gasping dying breath.


The stupidity is mind-boggling.

People weren't any less stupid during the time of polio and the introduction of its vaccines, but they probably had a lot more trust in their govt and its officials than they do now. Lots of reasons for this that one doesn't necessarily have to agree with to recognize, along with lots of reasons people cite for not getting vaccinated. I can't argue with you that sheer stupidity plays a significant role, only that calling it such has to be one of the worst ways to try and induce them to get a vaccine. So the question becomes whether we try and encourage towards the more desirable result, or simply insult, ostracize, and demonize. I know which way I've chosen, mainly because it's worth laying personal feelings aside for the sake of a common goal.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Generally right, but based on my reading I would say that vaccination DOES reduce the risk of any infection, and reduces the risk of symptomatic infection, not just severe cases. To varying degrees depending on the variant and the vax.

I just spent some time on this and it appears you are correct. And the closer in time that you've received a booster the better. Thanks for the correction.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Exile

People weren't any less stupid during the time of polio and the introduction of its vaccines, but they probably had a lot more trust in their govt and its officials than they do now. Lots of reasons for this that one doesn't necessarily have to agree with to recognize, along with lots of reasons people cite for not getting vaccinated. I can't argue with you that sheer stupidity plays a significant role, only that calling it such has to be one of the worst ways to try and induce them to get a vaccine. So the question becomes whether we try and encourage towards the more desirable result, or simply insult, ostracize, and demonize. I know which way I've chosen, mainly because it's worth laying personal feelings aside for the sake of a common goal.

one has to be careful not to generalise, here 94% of adults ( Over 18 ) are vaccinated and 1.8 million are boosted ( out of 2.6 million adults). That's far far greater then any other vaccinated project in the history of the state. Of course our Omnicron numbers are off the charts , but most are not getting seriously ill, ( my brother just had it )

teh big issues remains the stupid isolation policy , which is going to have to be abandoned as the whole country will be off work otherwise . I give it another two weeks

[GordMay]

This is counterintuitive, to me:

Puerto Rico sees spike in COVID infections

Puerto Rico, which achieved the highest rate [76.5%] of fully vaccinated people against coronavirus in the United States [1], is experiencing a record-breaking rise in COVID-19 cases.
The island’s positivity rate — or the percentage of people who are testing positive — was at 2.56% on Dec. 11.
By Dec. 22, it had skyrocketed to 16.49% [20 - 24.9% Today], according to Puerto Rico Department of Health data [2].
There were 833 total cases confirmed with molecular and antigen testing in Puerto Rico between Dec. 5 and Dec. 11.
Between Dec. 12 and Dec. 19, that number was about 10,700 — a 1,184.5% increase in a week.

More about ➥ https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nat...#storylink=cpy

[1] Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Vaccination Data
➥ https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tra...ses_totalcases
➥ https://www.salud.gov.pr/

[2] COVID-19 EN CIFRAS EN PUERTO RICO
miércoles, 29 de diciembre de 2021
➥ https://www.salud.gov.pr/estadisticas_v2#resumen_ejec


I think, it goes to show that, as has been oft noted, we'll just have to wait a little longer, to better understand Omicron.
I, for one, didn't know, what I didn't know.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by GordMay

This is counterintuitive, to me:

Puerto Rico sees spike in COVID infections

Puerto Rico, which achieved the highest rate [76.5%] of fully vaccinated people against coronavirus in the United States [1], is experiencing a record-breaking rise in COVID-19 cases.
The island’s positivity rate — or the percentage of people who are testing positive — was at 2.56% on Dec. 11.
By Dec. 22, it had skyrocketed to 16.49% [20 - 24.9% Today], according to Puerto Rico Department of Health data [2].
There were 833 total cases confirmed with molecular and antigen testing in Puerto Rico between Dec. 5 and Dec. 11.
Between Dec. 12 and Dec. 19, that number was about 10,700 — a 1,184.5% increase in a week.

More about ➥ https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nat...#storylink=cpy

[1] Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Vaccination Data
➥ https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tra...ses_totalcases
➥ https://www.salud.gov.pr/

[2] COVID-19 EN CIFRAS EN PUERTO RICO
miércoles, 29 de diciembre de 2021
➥ https://www.salud.gov.pr/estadisticas_v2#resumen_ejec


I think, it goes to show that, as has been oft noted, we'll just have to wait a little longer, to better understand Omicron.
I, for one, didn't know, what I didn't know.

I think the general progression of Omicron is beginning to be visible , certainly in highly vaccinated situations the vast majority of people infected have mild or no symptoms. More issues are now being caused by self isolation polices then the disease itself and this will have change

I beleive we in the end game omicron will displace delta and become endemic like the common cold. Everyone will get it eventually , most will sniffle in bed for a day or two.

Many countries now no longer report cases numbers actively in the media, sadly where I am they do and it’s being used to frighten people in my opinion.

We’re approaching the end game.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

... More issues are now being caused by self isolation polices then the disease itself and this will have [to?] change ...

Have you any evidence, to support that opinion?

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Have you any evidence, to support that opinion?

Flights cancelled, due to staff shortages , the removal or reduction in isolation days for “ front line “ staff and the endless commentary on radio about this issue and the fact that we will follow the CDC changes very soon or no one will be at work.

There’s lots of evidence around me that many businesses decided not to reopen between Christmas and new year breaks because of staff shortages. The staff are isolating because a co worker has tested positive. This is ultimately unsustainable

[GordMay]

Variants of SARS-CoV-2, like Omicron, don’t change the laws of physics, and biology. They cannot leap tall buildings, in a single bound.

Basic infection control, requires isolation precautions [of varying stringency], applying to all patients, in all settings, in every scenario, to break the chain of infection*!

Physical barriers like isolation & distancing [limiting contact], high-grade masks, and good ventilation will stop the virus.

And, very likely, vaccines will continue to provide some amount of protection. The question is how much, and whether the world needs to change the current vaccines, or just provide more of them.

* A good term to Google.

[Zippee]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Of course our Omnicron numbers are off the charts , but most are not getting seriously ill, ( my brother just had it )

The big issues remains the stupid isolation policy , which is going to have to be abandoned as the whole country will be off work otherwise . I give it another two weeks

I'm so sorry to hear about your brother and wish him well. A question: how did he determine he had Omicron?

The home tests, and most of the lab/hospital tests merely find for positive/negative Covid, but don't sequence it. This is unlike the UK, Denmark, S. Africa, and Israel - who are meticulous and do much sequencing to distinguish Omicron from Delta.

I'm not sure why the quarantine policy is "stupid". This is a very measured attempt to slow down the explosive Omicron, which threatens to not only overwhelm hospitals, but has already greatly damaged the airlines, nursing, and other workers. The CDC has taken a compromise position, reducing it from 10 to 5 days, but without a negative test. The other extreme is to stop all vaccination, masking, social distancing, quarantine, etc. in some kind of bizarre attempt to promote infection and achieve only a hope - hope - of herd immunity.

Considering that our hospitals, airlines, delivery and other essential services have already been damaged this early by Omicron is already costly to us all. To reduce quarantine risks societal chaos. Thoughts?

[boatman61]

Omicron.. started with a frontal lobe headache which over the following hours spread to the cheekbones/eyes and jaw (ENT) scratchy throat followed by mild temperature, a nose that thinks its a dripping tap and lack of appetite.
Come day three there's a lower back pain similar to the after effects of a kidney punch and slight unsteadiness moving around.. morning of day five woke clear headed and feeling better than I had for months.
Treatment was Paracetamol, hot liquids (lemon, honey, cloves, pinch of chilli powder and half a capful of Aguardente with hot water) water and light meals.
This was nine days after my booster shot at the 6th of December.
This may vary depending on constitution..

[Exile]

Originally Posted by GordMay

This is counterintuitive, to me:

Puerto Rico sees spike in COVID infections

Puerto Rico, which achieved the highest rate [76.5%] of fully vaccinated people against coronavirus in the United States [1], is experiencing a record-breaking rise in COVID-19 cases.
The island’s positivity rate — or the percentage of people who are testing positive — was at 2.56% on Dec. 11.
By Dec. 22, it had skyrocketed to 16.49% [20 - 24.9% Today], according to Puerto Rico Department of Health data [2].
There were 833 total cases confirmed with molecular and antigen testing in Puerto Rico between Dec. 5 and Dec. 11.
Between Dec. 12 and Dec. 19, that number was about 10,700 — a 1,184.5% increase in a week.

More about ➥ https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nat...#storylink=cpy

[1] Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Vaccination Data
➥ https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tra...ses_totalcases
➥ https://www.salud.gov.pr/

[2] COVID-19 EN CIFRAS EN PUERTO RICO
miércoles, 29 de diciembre de 2021
➥ https://www.salud.gov.pr/estadisticas_v2#resumen_ejec


I think, it goes to show that, as has been oft noted, we'll just have to wait a little longer, to better understand Omicron.
I, for one, didn't know, what I didn't know.

You are certainly not alone, even amongst the scientific community.

As for PR, is it because of the almost 25% who are unvaccinated? Or how long ago people got vaccinated? How many with boosters and, if so, when? Or are existing vaxes & boosters simply less effective at preventing infection than previously believed, despite having a good track record at preventing serious illness (at least with Delta & prior variants)? Or is serious illness even a concern anymore with Omicron for almost all except those most vulnerable?

Hopefully time will tell.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Variants of SARS-CoV-2, like Omicron, don’t change the laws of physics, and biology. They cannot leap tall buildings, in a single bound.

Basic infection control, requires isolation precautions [of varying stringency], applying to all patients, in all settings, in every scenario, to break the chain of infection*!

Physical barriers like isolation & distancing [limiting contact], high-grade masks, and good ventilation will stop the virus.

And, very likely, vaccines will continue to provide some amount of protection. The question is how much, and whether the world needs to change the current vaccines, or just provide more of them.

* A good term to Google.

It no longer looks like any measures are going to "stop" the virus, which doesn't mean we necessarily stop taking sensible measures in an attempt to slow it down. But it probably does mean the emphasis should probably shift more to treatment rather than prevention or containment. This is what happens when pandemics become endemic I suppose. We might as well accept that there are just some things about nature we can't control.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Omicron.. started with a frontal lobe headache which over the following hours spread to the cheekbones/eyes and jaw (ENT) scratchy throat followed by mild temperature, a nose that thinks its a dripping tap and lack of appetite.
Come day three there's a lower back pain similar to the after effects of a kidney punch and slight unsteadiness moving around.. morning of day five woke clear headed and feeling better than I had for months.
Treatment was Paracetamol, hot liquids (lemon, honey, cloves, pinch of chilli powder and half a capful of Aguardente with hot water) water and light meals.
This was nine days after my booster shot at the 6th of December.
This may vary depending on constitution..

Sorry to hear Boatie but glad you're okay. Booster only 9 days prior -- Omicron seems to be defying the vax protection we saw from prior variants. Hopefully the Imperial College study will prove to be wrong and at least you'll have some natural immunity going forward.

Just curious - did you lose sense of smell & taste?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Exile

Sorry to hear Boatie but glad you're okay. Booster only 9 days prior -- Omicron seems to be defying the vax protection we saw from prior variants. Hopefully the Imperial College study will prove to be wrong and at least you'll have some natural immunity going forward.

Just curious - did you lose sense of smell & taste?

No... no loss of smell or taste at all but did keep thinking I'd left a pan on the stove because of a hot metal scent in the background.
Don't be sorry, I'm quite chuffed its outa the way..
Re the vax.. they reckon it does not kick in till 14 days+ after though personally doubt it makes much difference.. but that's just an opinion.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Zippee

I'm so sorry to hear about your brother and wish him well. A question: how did he determine he had Omicron?

The home tests, and most of the lab/hospital tests merely find for positive/negative Covid, but don't sequence it. This is unlike the UK, Denmark, S. Africa, and Israel - who are meticulous and do much sequencing to distinguish Omicron from Delta.

I'm not sure why the quarantine policy is "stupid". This is a very measured attempt to slow down the explosive Omicron, which threatens to not only overwhelm hospitals, but has already greatly damaged the airlines, nursing, and other workers. The CDC has taken a compromise position, reducing it from 10 to 5 days, but without a negative test. The other extreme is to stop all vaccination, masking, social distancing, quarantine, etc. in some kind of bizarre attempt to promote infection and achieve only a hope - hope - of herd immunity.

Considering that our hospitals, airlines, delivery and other essential services have already been damaged this early by Omicron is already costly to us all. To reduce quarantine risks societal chaos. Thoughts?

Haven't heard anything from officialdom or otherwise about deliberate attempts to "promote" infection, only predictions that we may not be able to stop it no matter what we do or don't do. IF this proves correct, and IF Omicron proves to be mild for most, then the issue becomes whether the damage you cite to critical industries has or will be the result of people getting sick and therefore staying home, or people staying home in the hopes of not getting sick. Hopefully as time goes by we'll all get a better sense from the science of how much of a threat Omicron really is. So far, however, it seems to be meeting early predictions of high infection rates but low hospitalizations. Do you have indications from the data otherwise?