Northern Europe during Pandemic -- Summers 2020 & 2021 & onwards

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by boatman61

It was conducted by six Chinese scientists sat in China.. oh, and it refers to the Tannins so drinking proper tea is likely just as good.. real tea, not the fancy nancy designer crap..
Obviously Zippee has little experience of Brit Pubs/Clubs that the working stiffs frequent on Friday and Saturday nights..

Or the 'six o'clock swill' in Australia back in the old fashioned days.
He does appear to have had a little bit of experience of AA meetings, probably why the 'guzzle' word set him off.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Exile

Or the ones in Aussie! I've visited there, along with NZ, and let's just say it's enthusiastic. Not sure what AA meetings and the other points are about, but suffice it to say let's hope we can all get back to "owning" some beer guzzling in crowded bars, whether we're actual participants or mere spectators!

My experience of 'Bars' in the USA is mainly they are basically restaurants with an area that serves drinks.. there are the exceptions in the city but most would say that's where the low life's hang out.
Yet to come across one like in the Tom Cruise 'Cocktail' movie.. most are near empty after 2130 coz everyone's gone home to bed.

[Exile]

To those of us still relying primarily on mainstream media to provide us with the latest "science," here's another rather transparent example of how irresponsible reporting can lead to entrenchment and polarization on the part of the public:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bza1gAc8sOA

Rather than independently analyzing the same (UK govt) data Campbell was explicitly relying on, the BBC incorrectly attributed conclusions to Campbell about recent Covid death stats which he never suggested. Does the relatively small % of deaths from Covid-only in the UK (~17%) mean that overall deaths that include co-morbidities have been grossly exaggerated? Well, maybe not, and certainly not what Campbell was suggesting. But it does suggest, potentially that is, that the risk to the majority of populations who don't have such co-morbidities was likely inflated, and so in hindsight is worthy of a healthy critique of the efficacy of restricting general populations as opposed to focusing on vulnerable groups.

But rather than engage in such an analysis or critique, the BBC chose instead to try and discredit the messenger, accusing Campbell of being part of an effort that "has become a weapon of the cruel and heartless to dismiss the deaths of the people we love." Harkens back to the sorts of comments attacking US governors opting for exactly this more nuanced approach, policies which the stats thus far suggest has led to similar outcomes. And of course we've read this time & again on these Covid threads, most recently the rather stunning indictment of those who disagree with more restrictive policies as ones who "don't care about the elderly." What??? It'd be nice (but illusory to be sure) if we could resist the desire for moral superiority and recognize that most everyone has similar goals, and most of the controversy is the result of differences in the means of accomplishing them.

[poiu]

Originally Posted by Exile

Humor aside, there could be some truth to this. Did the study account for these environmental factors or did it rely solely on controlled "laboratory" conditions? Are the scientists who conduct the study, and their colleagues who peer-review it, aware of such variables or simply focused on the biological/chemical factors? Was the data produced using lab tests, surveys, or what?

Either way, I doubt anyone is going to change their drinking habits based on this, but it may be telling about the often inconsistent results from other studies we so often see. Or maybe more about a fast-moving pandemic with data accumulation and analysis an inherently slow process. All the more important to keep an open mind and not suppress alternative points of view.

This is the study, linked to above:
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles...21.772700/full


The effect of wine and beer is trivial in its effect. The 'news' about this surely qualifies as fake news. The effect is completely insignificant compared to all the other know factors,which are listed. Heart disease, hypertension, age, being male, diabetes, obesity etc.



That a slightly bigger proportion of deaths are amongst non wine drinkers is actually as much as anything a reflection of a well know phenomenon, which is sick and unhealthy people don't like to drink much. Sober people die a little earlier in general regardless of Covid.

[boatman61]

The BBC has gone a long way downhill I'm afraid from what it once was.
These days its just a platform for the Looney Left Agenda attacking any deviants from its agenda that it can find.. the once high standards barely reach the rim of the gutter these days.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by boatman61

The BBC has gone a long way downhill I'm afraid from what it once was.
These days its just a platform for the Looney Left Agenda attacking any deviants from its agenda that it can find.. the once high standards barely reach the rim of the gutter these days.

I still read it, and often find articles of value. If nothing else it's a perspective outside the US and its US-centric domestic media. Like other outlets with a leftward or rightward (fewer) orientation, so long as you're aware of the bias you can filter the nonsense out accordingly. Don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater & all that. Not too many, if any, neutral sources these days.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by poiu

This is the study, linked to above:
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles...21.772700/full


The effect of wine and beer is trivial in its effect. The 'news' about this surely qualifies as fake news. The effect is completely insignificant compared to all the other know factors,which are listed. Heart disease, hypertension, age, being male, diabetes, obesity etc.



That a slightly bigger proportion of deaths are amongst non wine drinkers is actually as much as anything a reflection of a well know phenomenon, which is sick and unhealthy people don't like to drink much. Sober people die a little earlier in general regardless of Covid.

I don't think it is fake news but one wonders how people get funding for such stuff when so much common sense is involved.
F'rinstance -
'consumption of fortified wine 1–2 glasses/week (0.80 [0.69, 0.92]) were identified as protective factors against the COVID-19 contributing to a decreased risk of COVID-19. '

Two types of people drink fortified wine - maiden aunts whose only social contact is a home help who comes in once a week - and derros.

The derro sitting on the park bench with his bottle of the very cheapest sherry in its brown paper bag doesn't have to worry about mandated social distancing - nobody will go within yards of them anyway.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

I don't think it is fake news but one wonders how people get funding for such stuff when so much common sense is involved.
F'rinstance -
'consumption of fortified wine 1–2 glasses/week (0.80 [0.69, 0.92]) were identified as protective factors against the COVID-19 contributing to a decreased risk of COVID-19. '

Two types of people drink fortified wine - maiden aunts whose only social contact is a home help who comes in once a week - and derros.

The derro sitting on the park bench with his bottle of the very cheapest sherry in its brown paper bag doesn't have to worry about mandated social distancing - nobody will go within yards of them anyway.

Now I know I'm not a maiden aunt (at least I'm pretty sure I ain't) so I now know why I have found social distancing so easy to encompass and why I hadn't noticed any real difference pre and post covid.

My shout when you next wander past my park bench

[poiu]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

I don't think it is fake news but one wonders how people get funding for such stuff when so much common sense is involved.
F'rinstance -
'consumption of fortified wine 1–2 glasses/week (0.80 [0.69, 0.92]) were identified as protective factors against the COVID-19 contributing to a decreased risk of COVID-19. '

Two types of people drink fortified wine - maiden aunts whose only social contact is a home help who comes in once a week - and derros.

The derro sitting on the park bench with his bottle of the very cheapest sherry in its brown paper bag doesn't have to worry about mandated social distancing - nobody will go within yards of them anyway.

And another really silly one in that paper. If you are a fast walker, you are nearly 5 times less likely to die from a covid infection than a slow walker. Nice to know. I am a very fast walker. Invincible probably.

[laird]

Originally Posted by Exile

Or the ones in Aussie! I've visited there, along with NZ, and let's just say it's enthusiastic. Not sure what AA meetings and the other points are about, but suffice it to say let's hope we can all get back to "owning" some beer guzzling in crowded bars, whether we're actual participants or mere spectators!

AA meetings have been held using zoom until recently when they have started being held at their various meeting rooms in line with any restrictions on numbers

With regard to sober people not living as long as wine drinkers , I think that you have to factor cigarette smoking into that one as a lot of people in AS meetings smoke

[Zippee]

Quote:
Obviously Zippee has little experience of Brit Pubs/Clubs that the working stiffs frequent on Friday and Saturday nights..

Or the 'six o'clock swill' in Australia back in the old fashioned days.
He does appear to have had a little bit of experience of AA meetings, probably why the 'guzzle' word set him off.

And a proper toast to me growin fan club: "Here's to you and here's to me, may we never disagree. But if perchance we ever do, here's to me and to heck with you", lol. My favorite toast, works well at weddings, funerals and at my favorite pub, the Kinghead, which was walking distance and where I could easily be found.

So I just might know a little more about pub life than ya think, mates, as I was always there on Fridays and for the fish n' chips specials. Fort Lauderdale has quite the British and Irish contingents, who filled the place regularly. Not to mention Lauderdale, which we consider the sailing capitol of the world, lol. By the way for those who think I mite be "sensitive" about AA (a bit indirect, eh?), sorry not at all. But I have five friends who are with me only for it - for which I am both open, proud and thankful. Sobriety is an open and proud honor - with nothing to hide and never a point of shame.

I really did try to walk away from this one, but the personal observations were, shall we say, a bit unknowing of me. Those claims belong to the claimer, and certainly not about me.

And now for my dear Kingshead - to your health my friends...

[laird]

[QUOTE=Zippee;3564894]Quote:
[I]Obviously Zippee has little experience of Brit Pubs/Clubs that the working stiffs frequent on Friday and Saturday nights.. [/I

By the way for those who think I mite be "sensitive" about AA (a bit indirect, eh?), sorry not at all. But I have five friends who are with me only for it - for which I am both open, proud and thankful. Sobriety is an open and proud honor - with nothing to hide and never a point of shame

Well said Zip , you sound like you are enlightened to the great works of AA

28.5 years sober here 💪

[Zippee]

As is true with life, Covid and pubs in general: one day at a time... thank you for your proud example. We are all better together than we are apart...

[boatman61]

[QUOTE=laird;3565367]

Originally Posted by Zippee

Quote:
[I]Obviously Zippee has little experience of Brit Pubs/Clubs that the working stiffs frequent on Friday and Saturday nights.. [/I

By the way for those who think I mite be "sensitive" about AA (a bit indirect, eh?), sorry not at all. But I have five friends who are with me only for it - for which I am both open, proud and thankful. Sobriety is an open and proud honor - with nothing to hide and never a point of shame

Well said Zip , you sound like you are enlightened to the great works of AA

28.5 years sober here 💪

Who said you were sensitive about AA...
Not me, I have not ever mentioned AA.. though a Mod once reckoned I should attend many years ago..
AA was dragged into it for no reason I can see.

[laird]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Who said you were sensitive about AA...
Not me, I have not ever mentioned AA.. though a Mod once reckoned I should attend many years ago..
AA was dragged into it for no reason I can see.

No one said I'm sensitive about AA hope that it did not come across in that way ,I'm very fortunate that I managed to find sobriety ,not everyone does

I will talk to anyone who is concerned about their drinking , I've gone into prisons to organise and run AA meetings ,I've worked with rock and roll superstars ,peers of the realm ,the rich and famous as well as them at the bottom of the social scale

I do enjoy your posts BM , and I loved reading about your exploits sailing your cherubini from the states