Northern Europe during Pandemic -- Summers 2020 & 2021 & onwards

[Montanan]

2020 Covid-19 social distancing guidance for Norden.

Applies across all five sovereign states and the autonomous territories.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Montanan

2020 Covid-19 social distancing guidance for Norden.

Applies across all five sovereign states and the autonomous territories.

Ha, ha. We say "skol!" when we drink gin. Which remembers drinking from the hollowed out skulls of Viking victims.

[Montanan]

The WHO made a thinly veiled dig at Sweden's loose coronavirus lockdown, saying 'humans are not herds' and old people are not disposable

https://www.yahoo.com/news/made-thin...204400479.html

On Monday, the World Health Organization blasted the idea of "herd immunity" for the coronavirus.

"Herd immunity" is the concept that if enough people in society (the "herd") either contract or get vaccinated against an infectious disease, and thereby develop immunity to it, it could lower the risk of another serious outbreak.

Sweden, a country which has resisted strict lockdowns, has suggested that Stockholm might reach herd immunity status soon. But scientists don't even know yet if a COVID-19 infection confers future immunity.

Antibody tests being taken around the world suggest very few people have had the novel coronavirus anyway, suggesting a prevalence rate lower than 10%, and possibly as low as 1%.

The WHO's Mike Ryan said it is "dangerous" to think that countries who've been "lax" about controlling the virus might "all of a sudden magically reach some herd immunity."

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Montanan

The WHO made a thinly veiled dig at Sweden's loose coronavirus lockdown, saying 'humans are not herds' and old people are not disposable

https://www.yahoo.com/news/made-thin...204400479.html

On Monday, the World Health Organization blasted the idea of "herd immunity" for the coronavirus.

"Herd immunity" is the concept that if enough people in society (the "herd") either contract or get vaccinated against an infectious disease, and thereby develop immunity to it, it could lower the risk of another serious outbreak.

Sweden, a country which has resisted strict lockdowns, has suggested that Stockholm might reach herd immunity status soon. But scientists don't even know yet if a COVID-19 infection confers future immunity.

Antibody tests being taken around the world suggest very few people have had the novel coronavirus anyway, suggesting a prevalence rate lower than 10%, and possibly as low as 1%.

The WHO's Mike Ryan said it is "dangerous" to think that countries who've been "lax" about controlling the virus might "all of a sudden magically reach some herd immunity."

A fantasy interpretation.


Herd immunity is the ONLY way epidemics end. That's how vaccines work.


Vaccines are just a simulation of having already been sick with it. So either enough people get sick that the spread slows down, or if you manage to have a vaccine, you can do the same thing without the sickness. A lot is made of that extent of herd immunity where the epidemic is snuffed out, but at a far earlier stage than that, the epidemic is slowed down, and we saw that in Lombardy BEFORE the lockdown.



There was no dig at Sweden in those remarks other than in the fantasy of the writer. Some countries or regions are further along with herd immunity -- Lombardy, New York State, Spain. Others are far behind. Sweden is somewhere in the middle. We are just at the beginning of this thing.


If you want to see herd immunity at work, look at the curve of infections (or deaths) of New York State compared to the U.S. as a whole. Sooner or later, a certain percentage (70%?) of everyone will get it, and a certain percentage of those will die. It is not at all clear that New York State, with the world's worst statistics SO FAR, will actually come out worse than others, at the end of the day. Delaying does not necessarily mean preventing.

[TeddyDiver]

Immunity against Covid19 is still a myth to be proven. It's not typical for corona viruses to develope a long lasting immunity..

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

Immunity against Covid19 is still a myth to be proven. It's not typical for corona viruses to develope a long lasting immunity..

There is still a lot to learn, but immunity against C-19 is not a "myth". And we know gradually more and more. See for example: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/07/h...revalence.html


There is certainly "some" immunity -- otherwise no one would recover from the disease. It would be surprising if there is less than a year or so.



If there is no long-lasting immunity, then vaccines won't work -- let's hope that's not the case.

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

There is still a lot to learn, but immunity against C-19 is not a "myth". And we know gradually more and more. See for example: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/07/h...revalence.html


There is certainly "some" immunity -- otherwise no one would recover from the disease. It would be surprising if there is less than a year or so.



If there is no long-lasting immunity, then vaccines won't work -- let's hope that's not the case.

From the same article "Having antibodies is not the same as having immunity to the virus". It remains to be seen later..

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

From the same article "Having antibodies is not the same as having immunity to the virus". It remains to be seen later..

The whole quote:



"Having antibodies is not the same as having immunity to the virus. But in previous research, Dr. Krammer’s team has shown that antibody levels are closely linked with the ability to disarm the virus, the key to immunity."


Pretty obvious, since the whole purpose of antibodies is to neutralize a microbe.


It is reasonable to assume that there will be at least some months of acquired immunity for most people after most cases. Let's all hope that it's more than that, because that's how vaccines work, too. If we can't acquire immunity from being infected, we won't be able to accquire immunity from a vaccine, either, and that would be truly unthinkable.


Note that the effectiveness of acquired immunity varies according to the health of the person's immune system. Many old people and many people with health issues have weakened immune systems, and don't respond to vaccines. That's why we need herd immunity, to stop spread of the virus through the community so that it doesn't reach those people who cannot become or be made immune.

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

The whole quote:



"Having antibodies is not the same as having immunity to the virus. But in previous research, Dr. Krammer’s team has shown that antibody levels are closely linked with the ability to disarm the virus, the key to immunity."


Pretty obvious, since the whole purpose of antibodies is to neutralize a microbe.


It is reasonable to assume that there will be at least some months of acquired immunity for most people after most cases. Let's all hope that it's more than that, because that's how vaccines work, too. If we can't acquire immunity from being infected, we won't be able to accquire immunity from a vaccine, either, and that would be truly unthinkable.


Note that the effectiveness of acquired immunity varies according to the health of the person's immune system. Many old people and many people with health issues have weakened immune systems, and don't respond to vaccines. That's why we need herd immunity, to stop spread of the virus through the community so that it doesn't reach those people who cannot become or be made immune.

Yes, thou some months might not be enough to prevent it from circulating as seasonal disease, In that case the idea of having heard immunity by getting infected every year looks kind of stupid idea and especially now when we really don't know about the immunity. Time will tell eventually..

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

Yes, thou some months might not be enough to prevent it from circulating as seasonal disease, In that case the idea of having heard immunity by getting infected every year looks kind of stupid idea and especially now when we really don't know about the immunity. Time will tell eventually..

Yes, let's hope like hell it's not just some months. We're truly screwed in that case. A vaccine won't work more than a few months, in that case, either.


The common cold is a coronavirus and there is no vaccine and very little acquired immunity -- because it mutates so fast. This coronavirus apparently mutates much more slowly, so let's hope.

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Yes, let's hope like hell it's not just some months. We're truly screwed in that case. A vaccine won't work more than a few months, in that case, either.


The common cold is a coronavirus and there is no vaccine and very little acquired immunity -- because it mutates so fast. This coronavirus apparently mutates much more slowly, so let's hope.

With the vaccine, if it's effective, it's just like other flu vaccines to be used when the epidemic lifts it's head so we can protect the most vulnerable untill it goes by.
What comes to Sweden there's now lifting head a resistance among other medical scientist against the present strategy.

[Recy]

Originally Posted by Montanan

The WHO made a thinly veiled dig at Sweden's loose coronavirus lockdown, saying 'humans are not herds' and old people are not disposable

https://www.yahoo.com/news/made-thin...204400479.html

On Monday, the World Health Organization blasted the idea of "herd immunity" for the coronavirus.

"Herd immunity" is the concept that if enough people in society (the "herd") either contract or get vaccinated against an infectious disease, and thereby develop immunity to it, it could lower the risk of another serious outbreak.

Sweden, a country which has resisted strict lockdowns, has suggested that Stockholm might reach herd immunity status soon. But scientists don't even know yet if a COVID-19 infection confers future immunity.

Antibody tests being taken around the world suggest very few people have had the novel coronavirus anyway, suggesting a prevalence rate lower than 10%, and possibly as low as 1%.

The WHO's Mike Ryan said it is "dangerous" to think that countries who've been "lax" about controlling the virus might "all of a sudden magically reach some herd immunity."

https://www.intellectualtakeout.org/...uZXaACRpq6k-jQ

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by Recy

https://www.intellectualtakeout.org/...uZXaACRpq6k-jQ

Except the fact they've failed to protect the nursing homes, anyway in Stockholm area..

[Barbaria]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Other countries, though, don’t appear ready to reopen their borders anytime soon. France has extended its coronvirus-related border controls until the end of October. Denmark, Norway and Sweden have indicated that theirs will continue until at least Nov. 12.https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...c93_story.html

Sorry but that newspaper must have misprinted the dates. I have not seen any indication on these dates for Norway. Beware of fake news.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

Except the fact they've failed to protect the nursing homes, anyway in Stockholm area..

I don't think many countries, or in the US, states, have done a great job keeping the virus out of nursing homes. The elderly is where the fatality numbers are being generated. He in NC, at first, there were few reported virus cases in the nursing homes. Then it went from less than a dozen homes, then a couple of dozen places, followed by 40 and the last I heard, 75 homes. This has driven up the number of known cases and fatalities. Last time I checked, most of the fatalities in my county are from the nursing homes.

The same thing is happening in Ireland, I think Northern Ireland, and the Netherlands.

To be fair, how do you keep it out? The homes I have seen and read about have closed off access to everyone but staff. The staff seem to be bringing it in. I have read reports of shortages of PPE but not sure that applies to all cases/homes.

The virus getting into nursing homes has been happening in many countries.

Later,
Dan