Northern Europe during Pandemic -- Summers 2020 & 2021 & onwards

[boatman61]

While Zippee gets his knickers in a twist over so called right wing funded conspiracies quoting Jan 6th debacle..
Let's take a look at some of the Liberal funded riots backed openly by many in the Democratic Party..
What is particularly telling about the hysteria over January 6 is that infinitely worse riots took place across America in 2020 — a series of genuine and decidedly violent insurrections in the name of Black Lives Matter — and there is nary an investigation in sight.
Talk about glass house's and double standards..

https://spectator.org/the-real-insur...the-blm-riots/

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by poiu

Your analysis is back to front.

The recent attacks on democracy as you portray them, including the protest by the truckers against excessive authoritarian covid controls are not attacks on democracy, they are protests for more and better democracy.

They are peacefully protesting against the decisions of an unacceptably authoritarian, anti-democratic state. Your call for their suppression and arrest is evidence of where the harm to US and Western democracy actually comes from. From those who are predisposed to a strong state - from the left.

Let's not turn this into a political debate. Politic, religion, etc. -- not for polite company, including CF.


I will just say, however, that the degradation of democracy comes from different sides, and by no means just one. You can't blame it on any one party. You and Zippee both make good points. Let's leave it at that, shall we?

[boatman61]

Fine by me DH.. just sometimes patience wears thin..
Sorry to hear about your chef.. great cooks are hard to find.

[Zippee]

Originally Posted by poiu

Your analysis is back to front.

The recent attacks on democracy as you portray them, including the protest by the truckers against excessive authoritarian covid controls are not attacks on democracy, they are protests for more and better democracy.

They are peacefully protesting against the decisions of an unacceptably authoritarian, anti-democratic state. Your call for their suppression and arrest is evidence of where the harm to US and Western democracy actually comes from. From those who are predisposed to a strong state - from the left.

Exhibit A in support of my case as stated. Keep on truckin' used to mean something very different. I suppose you wouldn't mind then if your hateful neighbor peacefully blocked your driveway...

To be fair - I agree that this should not be attributed to one party, but to all concerned. To be a problem, a person/party must commit or promote a crime or very harmful action - and - the the observor/witness/party must do nothing about it. In this way all contribute to the loss of the rule of law - basic to all democracies.

In my post, I criticized both parties - not by name but by actions or inaction. All were seen as responsible. Without the prompt application and prosecution under the rule of law enforcing accountability, democracy is lost. The committers and the inactive or slow walking observers are both responsible.

Again - Jan 6 was not a peaceful protest, nor is the organized blocking of essential transportation routes without permission or permits. The trucks should have been cleared within 24 hours, by any legal means necessary. The law is clear in all cases, and the whole political system has left us spinning in the wind.

Time to tack...

[boatman61]

Just peacefully call a tow truck..

[poiu]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Let's not turn this into a political debate. Politic, religion, etc. -- not for polite company, including CF.


I will just say, however, that the degradation of democracy comes from different sides, and by no means just one. You can't blame it on any one party. You and Zippee both make good points. Let's leave it at that, shall we?

I'm all for keeping politics out of things and nice in theory, but it is not possible to debate most issues involving the pandemic without government responses being discussed and most government decisions in a democracy are to a substantial degree driven by politics.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by poiu

I'm all for keeping politics out of things and nice in theory, but it is not possible to debate most issues involving the pandemic without government responses being discussed and most government decisions in a democracy are to a substantial degree driven by politics.

Agreed; I would just not like to see the discussion degrade into this party vs that party.

[Van Der Beek]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Agreed; I would just not like to see the discussion degrade into this party vs that party.

Not sure where this exactly falls.

Fellow conservatives want less government whereas the left want more government thinking that more government is the solution to our problems when in fact government is the problem and not the solution in the first place. All government is and ever was is force and coercion, it always was and it always will be.

Look.
'Left' VS 'right' is a vote for the same team and the team is team government against the people, the goal of government is to continuously grow government control, so when people say government is incompetent I can't help but laugh. In what way is it incompetent. It can take what ever it want and do what ever it wants to and with each year it grows even larger and it only answers to itself. That's hardly incompetent. When you look at it that way it is probably the most successful business on the planet.

I understand why they say it thou. I do. They say it because they believe they should be the beneficiary, but government is the beneficiary, government is there to serve government, government is not there to serve the people.

This should be obvious by now to most people. It really should. But unfortunately it is not. Instead they get dragged into all these debates.

In closing.
It reminds me of constitutional conservatives, we gotta get the right kind of people in there, ""once that happen, you'll see, things will change for the better"" Well, we've had 240+ years of different people in there and it is ALWAYS moving in the same direction, the medium is the message. In other words, different people is clearly not the solution. I have 240+ years to support my argument, Where. Is. The. Support. For. Your. Argument?! I'll wait.

Now they want to get an article five convention and get the document amended so that the document now says you can't ignore the document.

As if that would somehow solve the problem of them (i.e. government) NOT ignoring the document.

Mind bending.

Addendum.
This "pandemic" has been a gift for government, just as 9/11 was. I let the reader think about why this would be the case. Not just in the US mind you, but in many European countries. Once government has gained more control it never relinquish that control.

[Baronkrak]

Originally Posted by Montanan

...
only 65% of the population is fully vaccinated and considerably lesser so that have been boosted. ..

Maybe for some good reasons.

https://www.20min.ch/fr/story/demang...s-238977376154

[Zippee]

Originally Posted by Van Der Beek

Not sure where this exactly falls.

Fellow conservatives want less government whereas the left want more government thinking that more government is the solution to our problems when in fact government is the problem and not the solution in the first place. All government is and ever was is force and coercion, it always was and it always will be.

Look.
'Left' VS 'right' is a vote for the same team and the team is team government against the people, the goal of government is to continuously grow government control, so when people say government is incompetent I can't help but laugh. In what way is it incompetent. It can take what ever it want and do what ever it wants to and with each year it grows even larger and it only answers to itself. That's hardly incompetent. When you look at it that way it is probably the most successful business on the planet.

I understand why they say it thou. I do. They say it because they believe they should be the beneficiary, but government is the beneficiary, government is there to serve government, government is not there to serve the people.

This should be obvious by now to most people. It really should. But unfortunately it is not. Instead they get dragged into all these debates.

In closing.
It reminds me of constitutional conservatives, we gotta get the right kind of people in there, ""once that happen, you'll see, things will change for the better"" Well, we've had 240+ years of different people in there and it is ALWAYS moving in the same direction, the medium is the message. In other words, different people is clearly not the solution. I have 240+ years to support my argument, Where. Is. The. Support. For. Your. Argument?! I'll wait.

Now they want to get an article five convention and get the document amended so that the document now says you can't ignore the document.

As if that would somehow solve the problem of them NOT ignoring the document.

Mind bending.

Addendum.
This "pandemic" has been a gift for government, just as 9/11 was. I let the reader think about why this would be the case. Not just in the US mind you, but in many European countries. Once government has gained more control it never relinquish that control. There it is.

Excellent post, thank you. The only proviso I'd add - all above is factual - but it is well to understand that both/all parties are typically funded by a handful of mega-corporations, with a non-stop revolving door connecting them so as to become a unity. As in the 30's chaos is either exploited or sometimes incentivized, as the same puts the people at odds, and desperate or vulnerable to an authoritarian leader.

In truth it would behoove the people to work together for common cause, today meaning against Covid, climate change, and the chaos enhancing redistribution of money to the top 1% and especially to the top 0.1%.

Excuse me while I fund my observation rocket so I'll have a good seat, lol...

[Montanan]

With Covid, often the disease causes lingering ill health effects long after the acute infection is resolved.


COVID-19: Third of adults over 65 develop new medical conditions after infection.

A new peer-reviewed study published in the British Medical Journal examined the risk of delayed medical conditions brought on as a result of COVID-19 infection and determined that almost one in three adults aged 65 or older who became infected during 2020 developed at least one new condition during the months following diagnosis.
Many patients experienced complications involving vital organs such as the heart, kidneys, lungs and liver that required medical attention. Mental health complications were reported as well. Conditions that are the consequence of a previous illness are known as sequelae.

. . .

Results showed that 32 of every 100 patients diagnosed with COVID-19 in 2020 developed at least one new condition that caused them to seek medical attention, an 11% increase from those in the non-COVID-19 group from the same year. The most common conditions for which patients sought treatment were respiratory failure in an additional 7.55 patients out of every 100, fatigue for an additional 5.66, high blood pressure 4.34 and kidney injury with 2.59. An additional 2.5 per 100 patients sought treatment for mental health complications.

. . .

“The results confirm an excess risk for persistent and new sequelae in adults aged ≥65 years after acute infection with SARS-CoV-2,” and further highlight the wide range of important sequelae,

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/med...?ocid=msedgntp

[Zippee]

With Covid, often the disease causes lingering ill health effects long after the acute infection is resolved.

COVID-19: Third of adults over 65 develop new medical conditions after infection.

A new peer-reviewed study published in the British Medical Journal examined the risk of delayed medical conditions brought on as a result of COVID-19 infection and determined that almost one in three adults aged 65 or older who became infected during 2020 developed at least one new condition during the months following diagnosis.

Many patients experienced complications involving vital organs such as the heart, kidneys, lungs and liver that required medical attention. Mental health complications were reported as well. Conditions that are the consequence of a previous illness are known as sequelae.

Results showed that 32 of every 100 patients diagnosed with COVID-19 in 2020 developed at least one new condition that caused them to seek medical attention, an 11% increase from those in the non-COVID-19 group from the same year. The most common conditions for which patients sought treatment were respiratory failure in an additional 7.55 patients out of every 100, fatigue for an additional 5.66, high blood pressure 4.34 and kidney injury with 2.59. An additional 2.5 per 100 patients sought treatment for mental health complications.

“The results confirm an excess risk for persistent and new sequelae in adults aged ≥65 years after acute infection with SARS-CoV-2,” and further highlight the wide range of important sequelae,

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/med...?ocid=msedgntp

Interesting link worth reading (not just selectively quoting). Only underlines added. For example, the poster made these points:

1. For over 65 years
2. One of three who became infected developed new conditions
3. Confirming excess risk for this group
4. The study was peer-reviewed

It's worth examining the headline posted in bold: COVID-19: Third of adults over 65 develop new medical conditions after infection.

Results showed that 32 of every 100 patients diagnosed with COVID-19 in 2020 developed at least one new condition that caused them to seek medical attention, an 11% increase from those in the non-COVID-19 group from the same year.

While it is true that 32 of every 100 patients with Covid developed at least one new lasting condition; however upon examination the 11% increase reveals that of those who DIDN'T get Covid, 29 of every 100 would ALSO develop at least one lasting new condition.

I have to ask: was the emphasized bolded headline fair? Not really. The real headline is that about 30% of both groups - infected or not - would develop a new and lasting condition, with the infected at 32/100 and the uninfected at 29/100. This is the real conclusion.

Did this poster have a reason for this misleading bolded headline? "One third" sounds a lot worse than a difference of 3 cases per 100, does it not?

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Zippee

Interesting link worth reading (not just selectively quoting). Only underlines added. For example, the poster made these points:

1. For over 65 years
2. One of three who became infected developed new conditions
3. Confirming excess risk for this group
4. The study was peer-reviewed

It's worth examining the headline posted in bold: COVID-19: Third of adults over 65 develop new medical conditions after infection.While it is true that 32 of every 100 patients with Covid developed at least one new lasting condition; however upon examination the 11% increase reveals that of those who DIDN'T get Covid, 29 of every 100 would ALSO develop at least one lasting new condition.

I have to ask: was the emphasized bolded headline fair? Not really. The real headline is that about 30% of both groups - infected or not - would develop a new and lasting condition, with the infected at 32/100 and the uninfected at 29/100. This is the real conclusion.

Did this poster have a reason for this misleading bolded headline? "One third" sounds a lot worse than a difference of 3 cases per 100, does it not?

Good catch Zippee. As if there hasn't been enough that Covid-19 has inflicted on the world for people to legitimately fear. This highlights the problem with relying solely on second-hand mainstream media sources to decipher often complex scientific studies. I would think this would be a problem we can all agree on since it's not confined to political orientation, and it's obviously not for the public's sake (i.e. truth) but to increase their own bottom line.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by boatman61

While Zippee gets his knickers in a twist over so called right wing funded conspiracies quoting Jan 6th debacle..
Let's take a look at some of the Liberal funded riots backed openly by many in the Democratic Party..
What is particularly telling about the hysteria over January 6 is that infinitely worse riots took place across America in 2020 — a series of genuine and decidedly violent insurrections in the name of Black Lives Matter — and there is nary an investigation in sight.
Talk about glass house's and double standards..

https://spectator.org/the-real-insur...the-blm-riots/

That's DIFFERENT Boatie! And pales in comparison to the rebellious truckers potentially delaying delivery of Amazon packages to all those who can afford to mask, quarantine, and vaccinate while working from home!

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

The pandemic is over? No it's not. Today I am grieving for the latest person of my acquaintance who died from COVID. Mārtinš Rītinš, Latvia's most famous chef and a giant of the culinary world of Northern Europe, with a personality as extraordinary as his cooking, died today from COVID. He cooked at Vincent's in Riga, my favorite restaurant in Europe, serving some of the most creative and exquisite food I've ever had, a Michelin-star worthy menu but with more creative twists, and at reasonable cost, no one made any money from this, it was all done for the love of the culinary arts.


The last time I was at Vincents, Mārtinš served us himself. After we chose some wine, he brought a "compliment of the chef" -- two cans of Soviet sprats served on white plates. You know, the kind packed it what tastes like motor oil? What the hell? With the little key to open them. We did and -- there were no sprats inside, but some exquisitely delicate little bite of something. He was always playing jokes like this.



Some idea of his personality can be gotten from his YouTube videos, like this one:

, even if you don't understand the language.


He was apparently healthy, was vaccinated, so full of life the last time I saw him. This accursed, accursed pandemic. RIP.

Sorry to hear about your friend Dockhead, and condolences to his family and I'm sure many friends and admirers he impacted positively around the world.

No, the pandemic is certainly not over. In fact, the "learning to live with it" policy changes we're now seeing in many countries presupposes that it's not over. Either because people are tired of ongoing restrictions, or there's a growing recognition that there's little we can do to influence it. Probably both, and Martins' case is a reminder that even being vaccinated and healthy is no guarantee of survival.