Northern Europe during Pandemic -- Summers 2020 & 2021 & onwards

[Buster Brown]

The stats posted from the CDC are questionable. The NY Times of all papers have accused the CDC of suppressing data. The question this raises is why would they not present all the data to the public? My guess is that it doesn’t match their narrative. I was taught in my career to maintain a questioning attitude. If something doesn’t feel or smell right, you need to find out why and this smells to high heavens!

From the NYT dated 2/20/22:

For more than a year, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has collected data on hospitalizations for Covid-19 in the United States and broken it down by age, race and vaccination status. But it has not made most of the information public.

When the C.D.C. published the first significant data on the effectiveness of boosters in adults younger than 65 two weeks ago, it left out the numbers for a huge portion of that population: 18- to 49-year-olds, the group least likely to benefit from extra shots, because the first two doses already left them well-protected.

The agency recently debuted a dashboard of wastewater data on its website that will be updated daily and might provide early signals of an oncoming surge of Covid cases. Some states and localities had been sharing wastewater information with the agency since the start of the pandemic, but it had never before released those findings.

Two full years into the pandemic, the agency leading the country’s response to the public health emergency has published only a tiny fraction of the data it has collected, several people familiar with the data said.

[Greg K]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Im not a vaccine shrill, I merely see the advantages of it and I took it and I'm happy to state I did and for the reasons I did

as for Invermectin sure why not try rat posion too

That's where I stopped reading your response.
Educate yourself: https://ivmmeta.com/

As for your comment on Kennedy, one really has to deeply lack any critical thinking skills what-so-ever to be persuaded by a smear campaign NOT to read a book and judge for oneself its veracity.

[Dockhead]

And . .. back to Northern Europe and cruising.


The numbers are finally starting to look a little better:







Infections are down everywhere, most notably Sweden, where the daily infection rate has dropped 10x (!) since the beginning of the month. The astronomical infection rate in Denmark must be an artifact of their very high testing rate.


Death rates lag infection rates, and they are still non-trivial. Sweden was briefly above 5 per million, and Denmark has been well above 5 per million for a while. Finland is still near the all time high death rate of about 3 million. I guess these numbers will be coming down already during this week. But over the long period of time this wave has been going on, the deaths have been piling up. One Euro country (Bulgaria) has now passed 5 000 (!) cumulative deaths per million; 25 Euro countries have now passed 2 000 cumulative deaths. Of the few Euro countries with less than 2 000 cumulative deaths, only a few are not Nordic countries -- Germany, Ireland, Austria, Netherlands, and some micro states.



The restrictions seem to be completely off in Denmark and Norway, and in Finland and Sweden the remaining measures are coming off relentlessly. There is no debate about this that I can hear anywhere; everyone feels it's time to really live normally, no matter the cost.



An astonishingly large percentage of people I know have been infected with covid in the last four weeks, all of them vaccinated. None of them was very sick, really like a bad (or in some cases) mild cold; nothing like the flu. No one had the murderous cough I had. Isolation time after being infected is being reduced everywhere (I guess it's a European recommendation). It's starting to be regarded more like an ordinary disease, no more freakout.


I guess all of this is progress. Nevertheless I do NOT want to get infected again, and I'm probably more careful than I've been at other times during the pandemic. I'm wearing a mask in a lot of places where it's not required (and I have plenty of company). My Finnish doctor told me that having BOTH been infected AND being triple vaxxed with mRNA vaccines, I should have super-immunity and shouldn't worry too much, but possibly because I have infected and don't want to repeat that for anything, I'm still not taking any chances.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Buster Brown

The stats posted from the CDC are questionable. The NY Times of all papers have accused the CDC of suppressing data. The question this raises is why would they not present all the data to the public? My guess is that it doesn’t match their narrative. I was taught in my career to maintain a questioning attitude. If something doesn’t feel or smell right, you need to find out why and this smells to high heavens!

It's very easy to compare published stats from many, perhaps most parts of the world. If one country's stats differ markedly from those of a similar country, and there's no obvious explanation... then you have a basis for suspicion.

But the published US COVID stats aren't really out of line with comparable countries. And I don't know any country (or any situation) where a complete raw data dump to the public serves any useful purpose. The number of people with the knowledge, ability and resources to accurately process all that data would probably fit on a city bus... and most of them already work for society in that field.

[Buster Brown]

Thats just nonsense. The reason not to publish data is to control a narrative. You don’t need to be some vaulted expert to review the numbers. The narrative is falling apart.

From the NY Post dated 2/22:

Kristen Nordlund, a CDC spokeswoman, said the reason for the slow release of data is “because basically, at the end of the day, it’s not yet ready for prime time.”

She added that the CDC’s “priority when gathering any data is to ensure that it’s accurate and actionable.”

But another reason is that the data could be misinterpreted by the public, Nordlund admitted.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Buster Brown

But another reason is that the data could be misinterpreted by the public, Nordlund admitted.

... and that's ALWAYS what happens when raw data (or any data) are shared; bad actors pull out only what they want to highlight, they manipulate it dishonestly, and claim that they've proved that the public stats are bogus.

btw, you gotta boat, or are you just here to stir things up?

[Buster Brown]

You don’t need to be some vaulted expert to review the numbers.

Vaulted should by vaunted. Typing in a bouncy anchorage in the Bahamas.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Buster Brown

You don’t need to be some vaulted expert to review the numbers.

Yeah, you do. Not 1 in 10,000 could approach that task with any competence.

[Buster Brown]

Yep, I’ve been a boat owner for 30 years and full time cruising for the past two. I’ve been reading this message board for many years but could no longer let things go unchallenged.

How about you? Do you own a boat or go cruising?

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Buster Brown

How about you? Do you own a boat or go cruising?

yes, yes (limited), and I occasionally work in a marine trade.

[Greg K]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

It's very easy to compare published stats from many, perhaps most parts of the world. If one country's stats differ markedly from those of a similar country, and there's no obvious explanation... then you have a basis for suspicion.

But the published US COVID stats aren't really out of line with comparable countries. And I don't know any country (or any situation) where a complete raw data dump to the public serves any useful purpose. The number of people with the knowledge, ability and resources to accurately process all that data would probably fit on a city bus... and most of them already work for society in that field.

I see you're still using the same old, worn out bs argument against transparency as you did in opposing the release of FDA FOIA Pfizer vax emergency approval data.

Try harder.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Greg K

I see you're still using the same old, worn out bs argument against transparency as you did in opposing the release of FDA FOIA Pfizer vax emergency approval data.

Try harder.

No need to. You got nuttin.

[AKA-None]

I see that what we should have is a controlled long term test like say Tuskegee? That’s what I’m hearing

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by AKA-None

I see that what we should have is a controlled long term test like say Tuskegee? That’s what I’m hearing

I thought we were already having that - we have plenty of antivaxx volunteers and the results are coming in daily.

[Zippee]

Originally Posted by Buster Brown

The stats posted from the CDC are questionable. The NY Times of all papers have accused the CDC of suppressing data. The question this raises is why would they not present all the data to the public? My guess is that it doesn’t match their narrative. I was taught in my career to maintain a questioning attitude. If something doesn’t feel or smell right, you need to find out why and this smells to high heavens!

From the NYT dated 2/20/22:

For more than a year, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has collected data on hospitalizations for Covid-19 in the United States and broken it down by age, race and vaccination status. But it has not made most of the information public.

When the C.D.C. published the first significant data on the effectiveness of boosters in adults younger than 65 two weeks ago, it left out the numbers for a huge portion of that population: 18- to 49-year-olds, the group least likely to benefit from extra shots, because the first two doses already left them well-protected.

The agency recently debuted a dashboard of wastewater data on its website that will be updated daily and might provide early signals of an oncoming surge of Covid cases. Some states and localities had been sharing wastewater information with the agency since the start of the pandemic, but it had never before released those findings.

Two full years into the pandemic, the agency leading the country’s response to the public health emergency has published only a tiny fraction of the data it has collected, several people familiar with the data said.

All claims - particularly those that are extravagant, politicall or disruptive - at the least require meticulous argument, documentation, citation and links. It's true solely because one says so with projected surety and bravado to me - is not the least bit persuasive. That a mob can adopt such common war cries puts our democracy at risk.