Northern Europe during Pandemic -- Summers 2020 & 2021 & onwards

[boatman61]

DH writes that travel is back to normal in N Europe.. its still a pain in the butt here in S Europe..
For my flight from Lisbon to Madrid I have to get a PCR test 24hrs before the flight (48 not valid), fill in an online form to receive a QR code from Spain then present test results, Spanish QR code and my Vaccine QR code before I can check in at the airport.
Flocking madness..

[Greg K]

Originally Posted by Zippee

The fact that Ivermection needed to be studied earlier, and still does is not a springboard for Kennedy's anti-vax conspiracies (that have killed many more than Ivermectin would have save). If it's about criminality it would be corporate capitalism's unending drive for profit and near complete control of our government. Ivermection is simply trivial and collateral damage for them. The "cabal" that you cite is actually much bigger, much broader and much more powerful - and that affects every aspect of our lives.

The redistribution of wealth, Covid, the impending climate crisis, racism, facism, the war machine, inadequate health care, the privatization and monetization of the commons - all under the power and influence of the mega-corporations and perhaps 500 multi-billionaires

Breathe...

No, you don't get to dilute this issue with all the other problems humanity may be facing, so that we all throw up our hands in frustration and say " oh well...,nothing can be done."

The accusations Kennedy makes are against specific institutions, namely NIAID, FDA and the CDC as well as their collaborators in the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation (BMGF) the Wellcome Trust, WHO and the Principal Investigators (PI) in various medical research institutes.

His charges of fraud, corruption and criminality in these institutions are well supported and extensively cited, and no amount of mindless repetition of the smear campaign against Kennedy will change any of that. If anything, the fact that you and other vaccine shills continue to repeat such smears is a sure sign that what Kennedy is saying is dangerous enough for the culprits to fund and promote this campaign against him. In other words, as they say in the military.. "the flak gets heavy when you're over the target."

Read the book and then criticize it if you feel it warrants criticism rather than just smearing the writer. That is the intelligent route.

[Zippee]

Originally Posted by Greg K

No, you don't get to dilute this issue with all the other problems humanity may be facing, so that we all throw up our hands in frustration and say " oh well...,nothing can be done."

The accusations Kennedy makes are against specific institutions, namely NIAID, FDA and the CDC as well as their collaborators in the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation (BMGF) the Wellcome Trust, WHO and the Principal Investigators (PI) in various medical research institutes.

His charges of fraud, corruption and criminality in these institutions are well supported and extensively cited, and no amount of mindless repetition of the smear campaign against Kennedy will change any of that. If anything, the fact that you and other vaccine shills continue to repeat such smears is a sure sign that what Kennedy is saying is dangerous enough for the culprits to fund and promote this campaign against him. In other words, as they say in the military.. "the flak gets heavy when you're over the target."

Read the book and then criticize it if you feel it warrants criticism rather than just smearing the writer. That is the intelligent route.

And you don't get to cherry pick, or to divert the issue back to a discredited gentleman who left the reservation some time ago. He used to be my environmental hero that I admired and followed; then later read his emerged conspiratorial ravings. Sadly, I was forced to reject the harm and unwarrented deaths his extreme positions have caused.

There is no campaign against him; quite the reverse - as exemplied by his writings and the fan waving posts of his sycophants. Frankly I tire of the endless stream of this bizarre potage of rumor, unnamed sources with misinformation, quarter-truths, half-truths, outright inaccuracies, misrepresentations, cherry picking, parsing and god knows what else.

There's an old saying in healthcare: you must treat the causes, not the symptoms. Both you and your hero are symptoms. The cause is much larger, and more fearful. We're done - we'll agree to disagree, so kindly reconsider the ranting repetition of which you accuse other.

Breathe.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Well I was talking to a Portuguese doctor the other day (the missus has a lot of friends in the profession) and he said most of the people who have died in hospital came in for other reasons, cancer, diabetes, cardiac etc..
However while in hospital picked up Covid.. while they actually died of the disease they were admitted for, they were listed as Covid deaths being as they had been positive prior to time of death.
Any figures are skewed as a result.

And a lot of people have been admitted to hospital for cardiac distress, trouble breathing, organ crises or failures, etc, and once examined it's found that these acute conditions were brought on by COVID. It skews both ways...

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by danstanford

This is an alluring way to measure the effect of Covid but it lacks much depth. It does not account for a reduction in influenza deaths due to mask wearing or increases in suicide or drug overdose deaths due to the mental health implications of the pandemic.

The fact that the "excess death" numbers are so high despite the lower deaths over the same period from influenza, traffic, etc show that COVID deaths are not in trivial numbers. It's believed that COVID deaths may actually be undercounted in most places.

I've linked previously to stats showing that no, there has not been an increase in suicides over the course of the pandemic. And, sad as they are, the number of overdose deaths is still insignificant compared to COVID deaths.

[danstanford]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

The fact that the "excess death" numbers are so high despite the lower deaths over the same period from influenza, traffic, etc show that COVID deaths are not in trivial numbers. It's believed that COVID deaths may actually be undercounted in most places.

I've linked previously to stats showing that no, there has not been an increase in suicides over the course of the pandemic. And, sad as they are, the number of overdose deaths is still insignificant compared to COVID deaths.

You won't hear me say Covid deaths are trivial, I know better. If you will allow me my point, excess deaths is a statistic without much texture which will allow us to learn. All these other elements affect the outcomes and that is where we need to look unless your point is simply that Covid is a killer.

Frankly, it is hard to have any kind of conversation around these topics because you are relentlessly interpreted into one of two camps and having one of two conclusions. You seem smarter than to make things so simple, or to try and convert those in the other camp from you.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

And a lot of people have been admitted to hospital for cardiac distress, trouble breathing, organ crises or failures, etc, and once examined it's found that these acute conditions were brought on by COVID. It skews both ways...

And were rightly entered as Covid deaths.. the others were not yet were entered as Covid deaths anyway..
Only one 'skew' that I can see..

[Buster Brown]

Originally Posted by Zippee

Do as I say, not as I do? Choosing and primary sourcing of the New York Post for anything but full frontal (lol) front page coverage of sex scandals is ludicrous. Then running away from that doesn't help. And for a period to the matter, the continuing failure to provide links, well...

Enough said. Be safe and be well.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...age_111307.jpg

Here you go.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/20/h...-cdc-data.html

Enough said.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by danstanford

You won't hear me say Covid deaths are trivial, I know better. If you will allow me my point, excess deaths is a statistic without much texture which will allow us to learn. All these other elements affect the outcomes and that is where we need to look unless your point is simply that Covid is a killer.

Frankly, it is hard to have any kind of conversation around these topics because you are relentlessly interpreted into one of two camps and having one of two conclusions. You seem smarter than to make things so simple, or to try and convert those in the other camp from you.

Sorry if you thought I was on the attack. I did not mean to imply that you are trivializing COVID deaths. My main reason for responding is when I see things that are misleading or incorrect. I think it's important to note that no, suicides have not increased during the pandemic.

I spent a lot of time in 2020 looking into the statistic of excess deaths - how it's measured, what goes into it, and its significance.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by boatman61

And were rightly entered as Covid deaths.. the others were not yet were entered as Covid deaths anyway..
Only one 'skew' that I can see..

Many experts maintain that the numbers of COVID-caused deaths have been underreported.

[Buster Brown]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Sorry if you thought I was on the attack. I did not mean to imply that you are trivializing COVID deaths. (I know conversion is a lost cause ). My main reason for responding is when I see things that are misleading or incorrect. I think it's important to note that no, suicides have not increased during the pandemic.

I spent a lot of time in 2020 looking into the statistic of excess deaths - how it's measured, what goes into it, and its significance.

Isn’t that something that should be left to experts?

Yes, that was tongue in check and a great example of how you can review data and educate yourself on its significance.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Buster Brown

Isn’t that something that should be left to experts?

Yes, that was tongue in check and a great example of how you can review data and educate yourself on its significance.

The main task was to understand how the stat of "excess deaths" was arrived at. No I did not request (or need) raw data to understand that stat's significance.

Despite my strong math background, and the fact that I have done data processing, I'm under no illusion that having all the CDC raw data would allow me to find things that the CDC didn't.

[Buster Brown]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

The main task was to understand how the stat of "excess deaths" was arrived at. No I did not request (or need) raw data to understand that stat's significance.

Despite my strong math background, and the fact that I have done data processing, I'm under no illusion that having all the CDC raw data would allow me to find things that the CDC didn't.

That’s comical that you think the reason the data is being held back is because us common folk can’t understand it. You sound like the fine people that brought us Chernobyl. Everything's fine comrade, trust us.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Buster Brown

That’s comical that you think the reason the data is being held back is because us common folk can’t understand it.

I didn't say that. I'm saying that the average person (or the average group of antivaxxers ) is not going to do a better job with raw data than the experts. The only reasons such groups demand raw data is to (a) tie up departments they don't like with frivolous FOIA requests and (b) to perform simplististic and ill-intentioned manipulations to support bogus conclusions.

There are channels where data and research are subject to expert scrutiny. Of course, deniers (of both CC and COVID) cling to a mythology that all experts (scientists, research institutes, NGOs, governments) are all corrupt - except for my guy who wrote this ONE book - and here we are.

[Montanan]

Sanofi and GSK announced Wednesday their plan to submit their Covid-19 vaccine for authorization following ‘strong’ results in a Phase 3 trial.
The new vaccine is one of four candidates that received billions of dollars for development from Operation Warp Speed, the Trump administration’s program to accelerate the production of vaccines.

The vaccine, produced by European pharmaceutical companies, could become widely accessible to people across the globe because it is easier to store than the mRNA vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna.

When used as a booster after one of the other available coronavirus vaccines, the Sanofi GSK shot increased antibody levels drastically — by 18- to 30- fold.

Two doses of a new Covid-19 vaccine showed a 100 percent efficacy against severe disease and hospitalizations, and could become an effective booster taken after other Covid shots. Sanofi and GSK’s vaccine had an efficacy of 75 percent against moderate-to-severe disease, and showed a 58 percent efficacy against symptomatic disease during its Phase 3 clinical trial.

While those numbers are lower than those of the mRNA vaccines made by Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna during their initial trials, this new vaccine is ‘in line with expected vaccine effectiveness in today’s environment dominated by variants of concern,’ Sanofi and GSK said in a statement. ‘No other global Phase 3 efficacy study has been undertaken during this period with so many variants of concern, including Omicron, and these efficacy data are similar to the recent clinical data from authorized vaccines,’

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/med...?ocid=msedgntp











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