Northern Europe during Pandemic -- Summers 2020 & 2021 & onwards

[Montanan]

Vaccines and Omicron infection may confer immunity to previous variants [Delta and Beta].

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/art...vious-variants

Since Omicron became the dominant SARS-CoV-2 variant worldwide, scientists have been trying to determine whether having Omicron could protect against infections with other variants.

A pre-print study from South Africa has found that people vaccinated against COVID-19 and then contracting the Omicron variant had increased protection against the Delta and Beta variants.

Meanwhile, those who were unvaccinated but had contracted Omicron mounted immunity only to infections with Omicron.

Researchers believe their findings will impact the development of new vaccines for Omicron and future variants of concern (VOCs).

[goboatingnow]

Suggestions that future pandemics could be handled by increasing the “ fortress level “ is simply ridiculous. For Countries with extremely open economies like Ireland and EU countries particularly those with very porous borders like the single market area , it’s simply practically and economically impossible to adopt this approach. In Ireland alone 30000 people a day cross between NI and ROI , they live , shop and work on both sides of that border.

Suggestions like these ones suggested are impractical , Ill thought through , these might be suitable for large isolated continents or the southern “ hobbit kingdom “. They are simply completely impractical for many

[Buster Brown]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Suggestions that future pandemics could be handled by increasing the “ fortress level “ is simply ridiculous. For Countries with extremely open economies like Ireland and EU countries particularly those with very porous borders like the single market area , it’s simply practically and economically impossible to adopt this approach. In Ireland alone 30000 people a day cross between NI and ROI , they live , shop and work on both sides of that border.

Suggestions like these ones suggested are impractical , Ill thought through , these might be suitable for large isolated continents or the southern “ hobbit kingdom “. They are simply completely impractical for many

Well said.

[Zippee]

I am not in your area; nor do I know the exact definition of "unnecessary travel" (which would be useful. For example:

1. Is transporting a sick person to see a doctor in another port necessary? Probably.
2. Is traveling to another port just to shop or sightsee? Probably not
3. Does previous infection eliminate re-infection? No. Can you get re-infected and be asymptomatic and infectious? Yes, and expecially with Omicron-1 and even more with the new Omicron-2.

Personally, I'd see leaving the dock for a daysail, or even anchoring nearby (no trips inshore) as just fine. Even visiting another port - but not docking - anchoring out, and then returning? No apparent issue to me. But how about the printed regs?

The issue I believe is when you arrive elsewhere - with no "necessary" reason (as defined only) - and then going ashore. For better or worse, the rules and regulations are in force and need to be obeyed as-is until cancelled.

Fair or not, logical or not, the regs are the regs. I don't know about your area, but in the US, not meeting regulations for life preservers, signage and you name it are not optional or subject to personal interpretation. I was once cited on my kayak, for god's sake, for not having a whistle hanging from my neck (it was in the kayak). $200.00.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Suggestions that future pandemics could be handled by increasing the “ fortress level “ is simply ridiculous. For Countries with extremely open economies like Ireland and EU countries particularly those with very porous borders like the single market area , it’s simply practically and economically impossible to adopt this approach. In Ireland alone 30000 people a day cross between NI and ROI , they live , shop and work on both sides of that border.

Suggestions like these ones suggested are impractical , Ill thought through , these might be suitable for large isolated continents or the southern “ hobbit kingdom “. They are simply completely impractical for many

Might it be simpler to just isolate the isle Ériu, as a natural barrier, and not close the artificial county borders that separate the north from the south part of Ériu. Much more practical and likely far more effective. Similar say to the methods utilized by the islands in the South Pacific, including New Zealand.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Zippee

I am not in your area; nor do I know the exact definition of "unnecessary travel" (which would be useful. For example:

1. Is transporting a sick person to see a doctor in another port necessary? Probably.
2. Is traveling to another port just to shop or sightsee? Probably not
3. Does previous infection eliminate re-infection? No. Can you get re-infected and be asymptomatic and infectious? Yes, and expecially with Omicron-1 and even more with the new Omicron-2.

Personally, I'd see leaving the dock for a daysail, or even anchoring nearby (no trips inshore) as just fine. Even visiting another port - but not docking - anchoring out, and then returning? No apparent issue to me. But how about the printed regs?

The issue I believe is when you arrive elsewhere - with no "necessary" reason (as defined only) - and then going ashore. For better or worse, the rules and regulations are in force and need to be obeyed as-is until cancelled.

Fair or not, logical or not, the regs are the regs. I don't know about your area, but in the US, not meeting regulations for life preservers, signage and you name it are not optional or subject to personal interpretation. I was once cited on my kayak, for god's sake, for not having a whistle hanging from my neck (it was in the kayak). $200.00.

The word that was being used to determine allowance of travel was essential, not merely necessary.

essential

ADJECTIVE
absolutely necessary; extremely important.

synonyms:

crucial · necessary · key · vital · indispensable · needed · required · called for · requisite · important · all-important · vitally important · of the utmost importance · of great consequence · of the essence · critical · life-and-death · imperative · mandatory · compulsory · obligatory · compelling · urgent · pressing · burning · acute · paramount · preeminent · highest-priority · significant · consequential

Recreational travel, including boating, is definitely non-essential.

[Montanan]

There have been days where I thought.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Suggestions that future pandemics could be handled by increasing the “ fortress level “ is simply ridiculous. For Countries with extremely open economies like Ireland and EU countries particularly those with very porous borders like the single market area , it’s simply practically and economically impossible to adopt this approach. In Ireland alone 30000 people a day cross between NI and ROI , they live , shop and work on both sides of that border.

Suggestions like these ones suggested are impractical , Ill thought through , these might be suitable for large isolated continents or the southern “ hobbit kingdom “. They are simply completely impractical for many

Surely this has to be determined by the pandemic in question.

A future pandemic could have a high infectious rate and high mortality which would surely require harsh measures to prevent wide spread death or does it matter not if say 10% or more of the population dies within weeks.

If the public health authorities aren't willing to consider all possibilities then who will. Pretty sure the population will soon stop leaving home if death is around the corner. Future plans have to consider worse case scenarios.

[boatman61]

The individual states in the EU will shut their borders just like they did this time.. open borders be damned.

[Zippee]

With rare exception, an examination of the stringency indices for the world does not support the idea of returning to "fortress levels". Based on a long list of rating factors, stringency is then scored from "0" (no restrictions) to "100" (fortress level?).

On average the stringency over time has been around 50 in northern Europe. The UK was very briefly around 80, and the range was about 30-70.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-stringency-index?tab=chart&country=USA~GBR~DNK~FIN~SWE~NOR

So far the best results have been demonstrated in China, whose technique was not to shut down the entire country, but to quickly build a system of focusing on breakouts, with a locally intense response - for example the capability to test a city of 6 million people in 24 hours - to immediately impose total quarantine all positive cases, even delivering food, etc. to the home. Their ability to test and track all breakouts, and stop them in their tracks was amazing.

As a result their total deaths have been just a few thousand, not the million for example in the US. In sum, we have never really seen "fortress level" stringency. Instead we have seen a series of constantly changing, often politically driven responses that have not been terribly coordinated or effective.

It is only luck that Omicron came along. If we don't use this partial respite to develop capabilities as exhibited by China and a few others, the next serious variant may be the last.

[Montanan]

Imagine if omicron, with its tremendous contagiousness, had been considerably more virulent.

We were lucky that it did not also induce harsher outcomes and that there was considerable immune response from vaccines / boosters and prior Covid so as to mitigate its impacts.

Could have been much worse, and we just don't know what a new variant might bring.

Hopefully, nothing more virulent.

[Montanan]

Two recent studies regarding the probable origins of SARS-CoV-2


February 26, 2022 Preprint Open Access
SARS-CoV-2 emergence very likely resulted from at least two zoonotic events
https://zenodo.org/record/6291628#.Yhvin4jMK3B


February 26, 2022 Preprint Open Access
The Huanan market was the epicenter of SARS-CoV-2 emergence
https://zenodo.org/record/6291628#.Yhvin4jMK3B

[Zippee]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippee
I am not in your area; nor do I know the exact definition of "unnecessary travel" (which would be useful. For example:

1. Is transporting a sick person to see a doctor in another port necessary? Probably.
2. Is traveling to another port just to shop or sightsee? Probably not
3. Does previous infection eliminate re-infection? No. Can you get re-infected and be asymptomatic and infectious? Yes, and expecially with Omicron-1 and even more with the new Omicron-2.

Personally, I'd see leaving the dock for a daysail, or even anchoring nearby (no trips inshore) as just fine. Even visiting another port - but not docking - anchoring out, and then returning? No apparent issue to me. But how about the printed regs?

The issue I believe is when you arrive elsewhere - with no "necessary" reason (as defined only) - and then going ashore. For better or worse, the rules and regulations are in force and need to be obeyed as-is until cancelled.

Fair or not, logical or not, the regs are the regs. I don't know about your area, but in the US, not meeting regulations for life preservers, signage and you name it are not optional or subject to personal interpretation. I was once cited on my kayak, for god's sake, for not having a whistle hanging from my neck (it was in the kayak). $200.00.

The word that was being used to determine allowance of travel was essential, not merely necessary.

essential

ADJECTIVE
absolutely necessary; extremely important.

synonyms:

crucial · necessary
Recreational travel, including boating, is definitely non-essential.

Does anyone have a link to the actual regulations or official interpretations as to what is considered "necessary or essential" or whatever adjective is used?

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by Zippee

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippee
I am not in your area; nor do I know the exact definition of "unnecessary travel" (which would be useful. For example:

1. Is transporting a sick person to see a doctor in another port necessary? Probably.
2. Is traveling to another port just to shop or sightsee? Probably not
3. Does previous infection eliminate re-infection? No. Can you get re-infected and be asymptomatic and infectious? Yes, and expecially with Omicron-1 and even more with the new Omicron-2.

Personally, I'd see leaving the dock for a daysail, or even anchoring nearby (no trips inshore) as just fine. Even visiting another port - but not docking - anchoring out, and then returning? No apparent issue to me. But how about the printed regs?

The issue I believe is when you arrive elsewhere - with no "necessary" reason (as defined only) - and then going ashore. For better or worse, the rules and regulations are in force and need to be obeyed as-is until cancelled.

Fair or not, logical or not, the regs are the regs. I don't know about your area, but in the US, not meeting regulations for life preservers, signage and you name it are not optional or subject to personal interpretation. I was once cited on my kayak, for god's sake, for not having a whistle hanging from my neck (it was in the kayak). $200.00.



Does anyone have a link to the actual regulations or official interpretations as to what is considered "necessary or essential" or whatever adjective is used?

Here in the Nordic countries, yes, but all lifted now and regulations were only about crossing the borders and serving times in restaurants etc.. The rest was recommendations. https://lovdata.no/dokument/SF/forskrift/2020-03-27-470 here you see anyways how many "rules" were in Norway as each date present one specific regulation but the reg itself has been erased from the data base.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Might it be simpler to just isolate the isle Ériu, as a natural barrier, and not close the artificial county borders that separate the north from the south part of Ériu. Much more practical and likely far more effective. Similar say to the methods utilized by the islands in the South Pacific, including New Zealand.

Two different jurisdictions governed by different priorities and perspectives , so in a word , no