Northern Europe during Pandemic -- Summers 2020 & 2021 & onwards

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Barbaria

I agree, we just sailed under the Oresund bridge where you can drive over from Denmark to Sweden. We saw a lot of cars and camping trailers crossing from Denmark to Sweden, but no cars at all from Sweden. We have also seen a lot of Danish boats on visit here in Helsingborg (Sweden) and other places. The whole ting is surrealistic! Its really scary if you think about it...we hope it is corrected soon.



We crossing the Øresundsbron.

So that sounds a bit like Hotel California - "You can check in, but you can never leave." So what happens if and when they desire to return from Sweden to Denmark? Are they denied entry? Do they have to undergo a self-isolation upon return?

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Muaddib1116

By this time last month, the EU had released a recommendation to extend the travel ban on non-EU citizens to EU countries. A week later, everyone took that recommendation. Now, less than a week to the June 15th deadline, I haven't been able to find any word on whether the EU or any of the member states will open up to travel from outside the EU on Monday, or if there will be another delay. I am mostly interested if it will be possible for me to travel to Sweden and Finland from the US. Any rumors milling about over there in Northern Europe?

Update:

The European Union should gradually reopen its borders to non-EU travellers from July and draw up a list of countries outside the bloc for which restrictions can be removed, the European Commission said on Thursday.
The EU executive said the list of countries with access should be based on three criteria: countries should have COVID-19 under at least as much control as the EU average, have containment measures during travel and also be willing to let in EU visitors.
EU Home Affairs Commissioner Ylva Johansson said decisions on borders were for individual countries to take but she hoped the Commission could help ensure a coordinated approach, something she believed member states themselves also wanted.
The Commission proposed allowing entry from the outset for travellers from the western Balkans countries of Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kosovo, Montenegro, North Macedonia and Serbia.
Johansson declined to name any other country.
"This has to be done step by step. So I think this list will grow, maybe not from day to day but at least maybe from week to week," she told a video news conference.

Under the Commission proposal, travellers would be allowed in based on their place of residence, not nationality, and they would not have to go into quarantine on arrival.

It also recommended on Thursday that the countries of the Schengen area, which normally have no border checks, lift controls put in place to the control the spread of the coronavirus by June 15.
However, some countries such as Portugal and Spain have indicated they will not do so by Monday.
The EU executive also proposed that a ban on non-essential visitors from outside the area be extended until June 30.
The Schengen area comprises 22 EU countries and Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland. EU members Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus and Romania, which are not yet part of Schengen, have also applied the ban on entry from outside the zone.
The travel ban has not applied to Ireland, which is not part of the Schengen area, and former EU member Britain.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/eu-draw-s...131250453.html

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Montanan

So that sounds a bit like Hotel California - "You can check in, but you can never leave." So what happens if and when they desire to return from Sweden to Denmark? Are they denied entry? Do they have to undergo a self-isolation upon return?

Not at all. Danes, and Finns for that matter, are welcome to travel to Sweden and do whatever, and come home, with no quarantine.


And there is tons of traffic, because a lot of Danish and Finnish people have relatives or country houses or both across the border in Sweden.


It's ridiculous that Swedes aren't allowed across the border, but everybody expects that will be corrected soon. Sweden has a higher rate of infection than her neighbors on a country average basis, but the infections in Sweden are heavily concentrated in Stockholm and Gothenburg. Across the Oresund from Copenhagen, Malmo and Skane have a LOWER infection rate than Denmark. Why? Stockholm and Gothenburg had spring break one week earlier, and citizens streamed back from Northern Italy and the UK with infections. Whereas Malmo spring break was the same timing as Denmark and got cancelled. And Malmo now has less infections than Copenhagen.



We would like to see a correspondence between the measures taken and infection rates, but the reality is that there is no correlation, and a lot of other odd factors like timing of spring break play a huge role.



As I posted above, the train connections between Denmark and Sweden were fully restored last Monday.

[Barbaria]

Originally Posted by Montanan

So that sounds a bit like Hotel California - "You can check in, but you can never leave." So what happens if and when they desire to return from Sweden to Denmark? Are they denied entry? Do they have to undergo a self-isolation upon return?

Yes it is very strange here now.
The politicians are behaving like the boat have the China virus. If I have the Swedish flag on, the boat is contaminated. If I put the Norwegian flag on it it’s free of virus, it’s a **..ing circus! To quote George Charlin with a twist;
“When you're born you get a ticket to the freak show. When you're born in Sweden, you get a front row seat”

The Danes can party all night long in Sweden and return home safe and sound. According to the boat friends we met.

If they could just that keeping distance, washing hands and not travel when sick is what matters, and NOT the color of your passport or the flag on the boat.

Since April we have tracked our health and location daily in a special log. In addition to the health status on each crew member we have accounted for every social contact outside the boat with the countermeasures taken after the contact.

Here is my kid sitting on the beach in Helsingborg yesterday looking over to Denmark and wondering how we grownups are handling things..

[mglonnro]

So, today quite a few travel restrictions were lifted.

Danish authorities hint that restrictions for Finns (and Swedes) might be lifted at some point. Anyone seen any discussions about what dates they are thinking about? Or when they will revisit this and decide?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by mglonnro

So, today quite a few travel restrictions were lifted.

Danish authorities hint that restrictions for Finns (and Swedes) might be lifted at some point. Anyone seen any discussions about what dates they are thinking about? Or when they will revisit this and decide?

Today the Finns said they expected to open the border to Sweden within the next couple of weeks.

[mglonnro]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Today the Finns said they expected to open the border to Sweden within the next couple of weeks.

Ok. So maybe Bornholm will be open by the time we get there

[mglonnro]

Denmark's government is ready to open its borders to tourists from any country in Europe where the coronavirus pandemic is under control, Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen said on Tuesday.

https://www.thelocal.dk/20200616/den...pean-countries

[Pete7]

The BBC reported this evening that the Covic R value for NW Germany has jumped to 2.9. So one infected person on average infects another 3 people. That's quite a scary rate.

Pete

[GTom]

Originally Posted by Pete7

The BBX reported this evening that the Covic R value for NW Germany has jumped to 2.9. So one infected person on average infects another 3 people. That's quite a scary rate.

Pete

It is indeed very infectious in certain environments. They had a local outbreak in a slaughterhouse where employees work tightly packed.

IIRC, the R value is simply derived from the daily new cases curve. If there is a sudden jump due to a superspreader event, you'll get an odd R value which normalizes quickly.

[stevensuf]

Here in Portugal, In the Algarve, we have had few cases so far until a recent illegal party with over 100 people indoors in a sports club, the result was 90 Infections, so far.


The party was broken up by the police after only a few hours.



Closed spaces with no masks equals rapid spread.


Outdoors very low spread, outdoors with masks , virtually zero spread.


Every day it really looks like a true airborne spread, sharing unfiltered air in enclosed spaces.

[Dockhead]

We are in Aland Islands, semi-autonomous region which is part of Finland. When we arrived, friendly border guards came and checked our passports (so much for Schengen). There are now NO restrictions on recreational boats arriving in Finland from the EU. Including boats from Sweden.


"As of 15 June 2020, internal border control will be terminated for recreational boats between Schengen countries. This means that citizens of the Schengen States, e.g. Sweden, are allowed to travel to Åland with their own boat. All persons arriving in Finland are recommended to self-isolate for 14 days. Self-isolation is not required if the person arrives from Norway, Denmark, Iceland, Estonia, Latvia or Lithuania."
https://www.visitaland.com/en/good-to-know/corona/


"As of 15 June 2020, internal border control will be terminated for traffic between Finland and Norway, Denmark, Iceland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania as well as for recreational boats between Schengen countries. The aforementioned traffic is unrestricted at all airports and in all ports, provided that the point of transport is open."
https://www.raja.fi/current_issues/g...border_traffic



Welcome, Swedes!

[Dockhead]

Next stops for us -- Estonia and Latvia.


Latvia, like Estonia, is now completely open to travelers from inside Europe, but travelers from countries with continuing high rates of infection (Portugal, UK, Sweden, Luxembourg, Ireland, Spain, etc.) have to self-isolate for 14 days.


Thank God this aspect of the world is starting to return to normal.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by GTom

. . . IIRC, the R value is simply derived from the daily new cases curve. If there is a sudden jump due to a superspreader event, you'll get an odd R value which normalizes quickly.

Not necessarily. Superspreader events sometimes infect the whole country. Like that church in South Korea. Superspreaders seem to play an extremely large role in how the epidemic progresses, introducing a certain randomness to the pattern.


Measures to control the epidemic should probably focus on reducing the risk of superspreader events. Drunk people in large numbers packed into small spaces does not seem like a good idea these days. Parties need to be organized differently.

[Barbaria]

In a press confusing conference yesterday Norway announced opening of borders to all Schengen country’s from 15 July. The rules on quarantine on entry to Norway will continue to apply after 15 July for people who are resident in countries or regions within the Schengen area/EEA where the level of infection is too high, or in countries that cannot provide sufficient documentation of the infection situation.

So as I understand it, Swedes can now enter Norway legally but must be in quarantine for 10 days. Earlier the Swedes was denied entry for leisure travel.

https://www.regjeringen.no/en/aktuel...ies/id2721165/

Please differentiate on the use of the word quarantine and isolation, they are not the same, at least not here.