Some New Science on Virus Transmission on Airplanes

[Eder]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

. I solve this by not eating or drinking and not taking my N95 mask off at all.

If you fly in Canada M95 are not allowed in airports or any Canadian airlines. Transport Canada rule I just discovered by flying from Canada to Hawaii.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Eder

If you fly in Canada M95 are not allowed in airports or any Canadian airlines. Transport Canada rule I just discovered by flying from Canada to Hawaii.

I was surprised to read this, but you are right: "It should be noted that medical masks, including surgical, medical procedure face masks and respirators (like N95 masks), must be kept for health care workers and others providing direct care to COVID-19 patients."
https://tc.canada.ca/en/initiatives/...ing-procedures

So you still have shortages of PPE in Canada, 10 months into this?

Over here we have pyramids of boxes of N95 masks stacked up on tables as you enter every pharmacy.

Finland had actual strategic reserves of PPE -- actual physical warehouses stacked up with actual physical supplies. Other Nordic countries didn't do as well as Finland, but there have not been any significant shortages of PPE since the first weeks of the pandemic.

It's costly to maintain physical reserves; you lose all the profound advantages of just in time supply chains. But I think with something like PPE we now see the necessity of it. We will surely learn a whole bunch from this crisis.

[GordMay]

Yes, I believe there is still a shortage of N95 medical masks, in Canada, though Health Canada has approved KN95 industrial masks, for (some) use.

The initial shortage of N95 masks, in March and April, may have been more or less understandable. According to 3M Co., the biggest mask maker in North America, demand for N95s didn’t just double or triple, in the wake of the pandemic; it rose 40-fold. Hospitals needed them, but so did dental offices, long-term care facilities, Covid-19 testing sites and many other facilities.
3M (which has not raised its prices during the pandemic) ramped up production, from 22 million N95s, a month before the pandemic, to 50 million by June. It wasn’t nearly enough.
By September, 3M’s U.S. run rate was 1 billion N95s a year. Worldwide, it expects to be churning them out at a rate of 2 billion a year, by the end of 2020.

See also:
“Counterfeit, Sub-standard and Non-equivalent N95 Respirators”
➥ https://www.cda-adc.ca/en/about/covid-19/masks/

What Happened to PPE Production in Canada?
➥ https://socialistproject.ca/2020/09/...ion-in-canada/

To protect healthcare personnel against exposure to airborne particles and droplet hazards related to the Covid-19 pandemic, the National Research Council of Canada (NRC) is seeking a solution that will provide alternative filtration materials at large scale volumes that are suitable for use in the manufacture of N95 respirators and surgical masks for healthcare workers.
➥ https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/101.nsf/eng/00102.html

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Eder

If you fly in Canada M95 are not allowed in airports or any Canadian airlines. Transport Canada rule I just discovered by flying from Canada to Hawaii.

I just flew Westjet about 11 days ago, Calgary to Thunder Bay via Toronto. Wore my KN95 the whole way. Pretty sure I saw a number of people with N95s as well.

As Gord says, I think those regs date back to when we had a shortage of PPE.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Reminds me of an old Russian joke [loosely translated]:

Guy goes to the doctor. Asks, nervously -- doctor, doctor -- how long do I have left to live? [сколько мне еще жить?]

Doctor: Well, I can't say unless you answer a few questions.

Guy: Go on.

Doctor: So, how many packs of cigarettes do you smoke a day? Two? Three?

Guy: None! I have never smoked, would never smoke.

Doc: OK. So -- tell me, how much vodka do you drink a week? Two bottles? Three?

Guy: None! I've been a teetotaler my whole life; never touch the stuff.

Doc: OK. So tell me -- how often do you have sex? Four times a week? Five?

Guy: None! I'm not married and don't have a girlfriend.

Doc: [Thinking] Now tell me this -- I just don't understand -- why do you even CARE how long you have left to live?

Rather philosophical, like most old Soviet jokes. And absolutely relevant to this discussion. Life is not valuable just in itself. Life is only valuable when you consider for what. For different people, the answer to "for what" may be very different.

This makes me think of the response from a lot of elderly folks we know. It seems a lot of them go extreme to one end or the other:
- Some are living in complete fear afraid to leave their homes or have any contact with anyone.
- Some shrug and go about their lives.

At 50 with hopefully decades of life left, losing a year is painful but it's balanced against the potential loss of many more years.

When you get to your 70-80's, losing a year is a large percentage of your remaining life guaranteed to be gone. Also, in that age range, there are noticeable reductions in your ability to do things from year to year, so it's likely the best year you have left that is lost, knowing that the last few may be stuck in a nursing home, with dementia or otherwise incapacitated...I suspect many make the choice to take a calculated risk (even if not conscious of the calculation).

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

This makes me think of the response from a lot of elderly folks we know. It seems a lot of them go extreme to one end or the other:
- Some are living in complete fear afraid to leave their homes or have any contact with anyone.
- Some shrug and go about their lives.

At 50 with hopefully decades of life left, losing a year is painful but it's balanced against the potential loss of many more years.

When you get to your 70-80's, losing a year is a large percentage of your remaining life guaranteed to be gone. Also, in that age range, there are noticeable reductions in your ability to do things from year to year, so it's likely the best year you have left that is lost, knowing that the last few may be stuck in a nursing home, with dementia or otherwise incapacitated...I suspect many make the choice to take a calculated risk (even if not conscious of the calculation).

Interesting observation.

[Eder]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

As Gord says, I think those regs date back to when we had a shortage of PPE.

Well it was enforced in the airport I was in 6 days ago, people wearing M95's had to replace them...only reason I knew about this.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Eder

Well it was enforced in the airport I was in 6 days ago, people wearing M95's had to replace them...only reason I knew about this.

Which airport? I went from Calgary to Toronto to Thunder Bay. No issue.

[sv_pelagia]

Originally Posted by Eder

Well it was enforced in the airport I was in 6 days ago, people wearing M95's had to replace them...only reason I knew about this.

Seems odd. The Transport Canada link https://tc.canada.ca/en/initiatives/...ing-procedures

Does not actually indicate N95 masks are prohibited.

And many "N95" masks, such as ones I got from hardware store are not approved for medical use. How do screeners at airport determine this?

Seems (to me) to be a local misinterpretation of measures/guidance.

[Mike OReilly]

Eder, were these masks the ones with exhalation valves? I know those are "not recommended" (although not banned).

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-heal...rings.html#a10

[mountaindweller]

Originally Posted by Eder

Well it was enforced in the airport I was in 6 days ago, people wearing M95's had to replace them...only reason I knew about this.

The N95's (with valves) were banned in the US because a few people were removing the valve........go figure. So it 'appeared' you were wearing a mask but in reality, no protection.

[NPCampbell]

Originally Posted by mountaindweller

The N95's (with valves) were banned in the US because a few people were removing the valve........go figure. So it 'appeared' you were wearing a mask but in reality, no protection.

Although there is no US ban on vented masks, I am guessing the airlines banned them due to the Duke study that was released on August 7th. The CDC recommendation followed shortly after several airlines had already banned them.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Up Helly Aa

Many will not like my opinion. It is refreshing to listen to a little common sense and not all of this panic and political hogwash. It is a virus....it spreads...they have been with us since the beginning of mankind. The human immune system fights of off viruses in 99.999% of all cases. If we are not exposed to new viruses our immune system weakens. Mask at best simply slow the spread. They do not stop it. Viruses vary widely in death rates......especially when those counting have a political agenda. I have had it and got through fine. Two weeks of feeling lousy. They have a very good handle on treating for it early now. I am over 80.

Sadly equally I know a 25 year old who has a bad dose , and will be living with the long tail of issues the disease leaves

But please continue with your nonsense.

[mountaindweller]

Originally Posted by NPCampbell

Although there is no US ban on vented masks, I am guessing the airlines banned them due to the Duke study that was released on August 7th. The CDC recommendation followed shortly after several airlines had already banned them.

You are correct. Thanks for clarifying. More of an airline ban. The one way valve apparently protects you but offers no protection to others when you exhale.
Cheers

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by sv_pelagia

... And many "N95" masks, such as ones I got from hardware store are not approved for medical use...

Those would likely be KN95 masks.